AARoads Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: US route on a toll road?  (Read 12834 times)

elsmere241

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 362
  • Age: 46
  • Location: Elsmere, Delaware
  • Last Login: July 24, 2017, 07:11:56 PM
Re: US route on a toll road?
« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2013, 04:44:54 PM »

DE 1 is a bypass of US 13. The only place where they overlap is southwest of New Castle, where between two exits DE 1 was built on top of old US 13. This stretch is untolled.

The new US 301 in Delaware will be tolled.
Logged

kj3400

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 690
  • Age: 28
  • Location: Baltimore, MD
  • Last Login: June 18, 2019, 08:11:59 AM
Re: US route on a toll road?
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2013, 06:23:08 PM »

Toll crossings are exceptions.  Otherwise, what's the toll-free alternate for US 1 & 9 over the George Washington Bridge?
9W :bigass:

Ok, smart guy, what about the alternate for MD US 40 over the Hatem Bridge?
Logged
Call me Kenny/Kenneth. No, seriously.

PHLBOS

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6477
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Greater Philly, PA
  • Last Login: June 25, 2019, 05:33:52 PM
Re: US route on a toll road?
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2013, 06:31:39 PM »

what about the alternate for MD US 40 over the Hatem Bridge?
US 1 along the Conowingo Dam.
Logged
GPS does NOT equal GOD

StogieGuy7

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 237
  • Location: Lake County, IL
  • Last Login: June 20, 2019, 12:58:07 PM
Re: US route on a toll road?
« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2013, 08:24:51 PM »

Wasn't the old Denver-Boulder Turnpike (when it was tolled) also US 36 for its full length? 
Logged

NE2

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 13808
  • fuck

  • Age: 11
  • Location: central Florida
  • Last Login: June 25, 2019, 09:06:53 PM
Re: US route on a toll road?
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2013, 09:11:07 PM »

Wasn't the old Denver-Boulder Turnpike (when it was tolled) also US 36 for its full length? 
Not until after tolls were removed.


Several of the Chicago-area toll roads were toll-bannered alternate routes. There were also such on 80 in Georgia and 98 in Florida (both due to toll bridges).
http://www.us-highways.com/tollus.htm

I forgot about US 278 on Hilton Head Island, where 278 Biz is the free route.
Logged
Florida route log | pre-1945
I will do my best to not make America hate again.
Global warming denial is barely worse than white privilege denial.

cpzilliacus

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10222
  • Age: 60
  • Location: Maryland
  • Last Login: May 15, 2019, 09:41:46 PM
Re: US route on a toll road?
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2013, 07:14:36 AM »

US 1 along the Conowingo Dam.

Don't forget U.S. 50/U.S. 301 across the Chesapeake Bay Bridge ("WPL"); U.S. 301 over the Gov.Harry Nice Bridge at the Potomac River; and the U.S. 13 across the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel.
Logged
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

jeffandnicole

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 9844
  • Age: 44
  • Location: South Jersey
  • Last Login: June 25, 2019, 09:56:22 PM
Re: US route on a toll road?
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2013, 08:23:29 AM »

US 1 along the Conowingo Dam.

Don't forget U.S. 50/U.S. 301 across the Chesapeake Bay Bridge ("WPL"); U.S. 301 over the Gov.Harry Nice Bridge at the Potomac River; and the U.S. 13 across the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel.

Which are all bridges, and not subject to the free alternative restrictions.
Logged

Kacie Jane

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1668
  • Age: 33
  • Location: Kent, WA
  • Last Login: June 25, 2019, 07:53:52 PM
Re: US route on a toll road?
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2013, 02:21:04 PM »

Which are all bridges, and not subject to the free alternative restrictions.

I'm becoming more and more certain that no matter how many times this is stated, it will continue to be ignored.
Logged

NE2

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 13808
  • fuck

  • Age: 11
  • Location: central Florida
  • Last Login: June 25, 2019, 09:06:53 PM
Re: US route on a toll road?
« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2013, 03:05:12 PM »

US 34 across Rocky Mountain National Park. Maybe?
Logged
Florida route log | pre-1945
I will do my best to not make America hate again.
Global warming denial is barely worse than white privilege denial.

Brandon

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10272
  • Mr. Accelerator is our friend; Mr. Brake is not.

  • Age: 42
  • Location: Joliet, IL
  • Last Login: June 25, 2019, 07:29:50 PM
Re: US route on a toll road?
« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2013, 03:54:32 PM »

US 34 across Rocky Mountain National Park. Maybe?

Would that not fall under the same idea as the US highways through Yellowstone with the fee booths, or is the mileage even counted toward the length of the highway?
Logged
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

Illinois: America's own banana republic.

Screw the KSA; Stand with Canada.

NE2

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 13808
  • fuck

  • Age: 11
  • Location: central Florida
  • Last Login: June 25, 2019, 09:06:53 PM
Re: US route on a toll road?
« Reply #35 on: June 04, 2013, 04:06:46 PM »

Yellowstone is officially a gap (and the routes are not signed). 34 and 36 are signed in RMNP: http://www.usends.com/30-39/036/036.html
(So actually 36 also has a park entrance fee.)

Anyone know if US 26 has a fee through Grand Teton?
Logged
Florida route log | pre-1945
I will do my best to not make America hate again.
Global warming denial is barely worse than white privilege denial.

kj3400

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 690
  • Age: 28
  • Location: Baltimore, MD
  • Last Login: June 18, 2019, 08:11:59 AM
Re: US route on a toll road?
« Reply #36 on: June 04, 2013, 04:32:02 PM »

what about the alternate for MD US 40 over the Hatem Bridge?
US 1 along the Conowingo Dam.

Oh. I actually didn't consider US 1 as a free alternative, as it goes pretty far north.

Which are all bridges, and not subject to the free alternative restrictions.

I'm becoming more and more certain that no matter how many times this is stated, it will continue to be ignored.

I knew that, I was just being hypothetical.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2013, 04:34:08 PM by kj3400 »
Logged
Call me Kenny/Kenneth. No, seriously.

Mr_Northside

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1103
  • "Oh god... They'll know! They'll know!"

  • Age: 40
  • Location: Woods Run (Northside), Pittsburgh, PA
  • Last Login: June 25, 2019, 02:42:57 PM
    • Currently playing washboard in Ye Olde Royal Shithouse Players
Re: US route on a toll road?
« Reply #37 on: June 04, 2013, 05:26:29 PM »

Back before the WV section of the Mon-Fayette opened, there were organizations in both states that wanted to re-route US-119 to the highway.  Obviously, that didn't happen (though I thought it was a good idea)

From the discussion on page 2 of this thread: http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=1409.25
Logged
I don't have opinions anymore. All I know is that no one is better than anyone else, and everyone is the best at everything

xonhulu

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1326
  • Location: Salem, OR
  • Last Login: September 25, 2017, 09:45:41 PM
Re: US route on a toll road?
« Reply #38 on: June 04, 2013, 05:46:38 PM »

Anyone know if US 26 has a fee through Grand Teton?

If you stay on 26 through the park, there is no entrance fee.  However, if you follow 89/191/287 north of 26, you will immediately encounter the park entrance booth and lighten your wallet.
Logged

ski-man

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 27
  • Location: Wyoming
  • Last Login: June 22, 2019, 11:16:36 PM
Re: US route on a toll road?
« Reply #39 on: June 05, 2013, 05:04:54 PM »

US 183A outside of Austin is tolled, but there is still the old US 183 that is not tolled.
Logged

kphoger

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10202
  • Location: Wichita, KS
  • Last Login: June 21, 2019, 04:53:28 PM
Re: US route on a toll road?
« Reply #40 on: June 05, 2013, 05:11:07 PM »

US 183A outside of Austin is tolled, but there is still the old US 183 that is not tolled.

183A is not a US Route.  It is a private toll road owned by the CTRMA.
Logged
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.

wxfree

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1038
  • Age: -1
  • Location: Over there
  • Last Login: June 09, 2019, 08:13:38 PM
Re: US route on a toll road?
« Reply #41 on: June 05, 2013, 07:16:45 PM »

US 183A outside of Austin is tolled, but there is still the old US 183 that is not tolled.

183A is not a US Route.  It is a private toll road owned by the CTRMA.

For clarification, 183A Turnpike is a public toll road owned by the Central Texas Regional Mobility Authority.  In Texas, a regional mobility authority, just like a regional tollway authority (NTTA), is a political subdivision of the state - the same as a city, county, school district, or other taxing district.  RMAs and RTAs are different in that they have no taxing power; they provide an essential government service in exchange for direct payments from users.  Each has a board of directors appointed by elected officials.
Logged
All of my posts represent my personal opinions and the official views of any governmental agency that has good sense.

deathtopumpkins

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 2046
  • Age: 25
  • Location: Boston, Massachusetts
  • Last Login: June 25, 2019, 01:41:19 PM
Re: US route on a toll road?
« Reply #42 on: June 06, 2013, 12:12:03 AM »

US 183A outside of Austin is tolled, but there is still the old US 183 that is not tolled.

183A is not a US Route.  It is a private toll road owned by the CTRMA.

For clarification, 183A Turnpike is a public toll road owned by the Central Texas Regional Mobility Authority.  In Texas, a regional mobility authority, just like a regional tollway authority (NTTA), is a political subdivision of the state - the same as a city, county, school district, or other taxing district.  RMAs and RTAs are different in that they have no taxing power; they provide an essential government service in exchange for direct payments from users.  Each has a board of directors appointed by elected officials.

That still doesn't make it a US route.

wxfree

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1038
  • Age: -1
  • Location: Over there
  • Last Login: June 09, 2019, 08:13:38 PM
Re: US route on a toll road?
« Reply #43 on: June 06, 2013, 12:54:20 AM »

US 183A outside of Austin is tolled, but there is still the old US 183 that is not tolled.

183A is not a US Route.  It is a private toll road owned by the CTRMA.

For clarification, 183A Turnpike is a public toll road owned by the Central Texas Regional Mobility Authority.  In Texas, a regional mobility authority, just like a regional tollway authority (NTTA), is a political subdivision of the state - the same as a city, county, school district, or other taxing district.  RMAs and RTAs are different in that they have no taxing power; they provide an essential government service in exchange for direct payments from users.  Each has a board of directors appointed by elected officials.

That still doesn't make it a US route.

No, it is not a US route or any form of state highway.  When TxDOT was considering developing the road, it was referred to as US 183A in planning documents.  When the RMA took over, it was no longer considered part of the TxDOT system.

It bothers me to hear or read people referring to Texas toll authorities as private companies or as semi-governmental or quasi-governmental agencies.  Newspapers, and even TxDOT, have done that.  I have no better option than to ignore it most of the time, but on a road enthusiast forum, it's more appropriate to point out such technicalities.  It is a public toll road, but not any kind of state highway.  I assume the name is meant to let people know it's a bypass to US 183.
Logged
All of my posts represent my personal opinions and the official views of any governmental agency that has good sense.

kphoger

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10202
  • Location: Wichita, KS
  • Last Login: June 21, 2019, 04:53:28 PM
Re: US route on a toll road?
« Reply #44 on: June 06, 2013, 10:57:42 AM »

US 183A outside of Austin is tolled, but there is still the old US 183 that is not tolled.

183A is not a US Route.  It is a private toll road owned by the CTRMA.

For clarification, 183A Turnpike is a public toll road owned by the Central Texas Regional Mobility Authority.  In Texas, a regional mobility authority, just like a regional tollway authority (NTTA), is a political subdivision of the state - the same as a city, county, school district, or other taxing district.  RMAs and RTAs are different in that they have no taxing power; they provide an essential government service in exchange for direct payments from users.  Each has a board of directors appointed by elected officials.

That still doesn't make it a US route.

It bothers me to hear or read people referring to Texas toll authorities as private companies or as semi-governmental or quasi-governmental agencies

That is, deathtopumpkins, what he was correcting me on.  I erroneously touted the agency as a private entity, which it is not.

However, wxfree, if the CTRMA is a subdivision of the state, should we still call it a state highway—even if it's not part of TxDOT?  If not, then what do we call it?
Logged
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.

NE2

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 13808
  • fuck

  • Age: 11
  • Location: central Florida
  • Last Login: June 25, 2019, 09:06:53 PM
Re: US route on a toll road?
« Reply #45 on: June 06, 2013, 11:01:15 AM »

It's no more a state highway than a prison driveway.
Logged
Florida route log | pre-1945
I will do my best to not make America hate again.
Global warming denial is barely worse than white privilege denial.

J N Winkler

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6279
  • Location: Wichita, Kansas/Oxford, Great Britain
  • Last Login: June 25, 2019, 11:16:10 PM
Re: US route on a toll road?
« Reply #46 on: June 06, 2013, 11:34:20 AM »

No, it is not a US route or any form of state highway.  When TxDOT was considering developing the road, it was referred to as US 183A in planning documents.  When the RMA took over, it was no longer considered part of the TxDOT system.

I am not sure that is actually true.  My understanding is that roads in Texas developed and maintained by public toll agencies (including RMAs and RTAs, TxDOT's turnpike division, etc. but not private toll companies such as the developer of the former Camino Colombia toll road) are formally classified as state highways, even though TxDOT in most cases either has no direct responsibility for construction or maintenance, or has farmed it out to a private company through a CDA.  The underlying rationale for this policy is to facilitate reversion to TxDOT in the event the agency runs into financial trouble and also to give TxDOT leverage to enforce its engineering standards.
Logged
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

kphoger

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 10202
  • Location: Wichita, KS
  • Last Login: June 21, 2019, 04:53:28 PM
Re: US route on a toll road?
« Reply #47 on: June 06, 2013, 12:16:05 PM »

Camino Colombia toll road ... financial trouble

Yep!   :nod:

(By the way, it's still the Camino Colombia Toll Road; it's just also state highway 255 now.  See below.)
Logged
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.

wxfree

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1038
  • Age: -1
  • Location: Over there
  • Last Login: June 09, 2019, 08:13:38 PM
Re: US route on a toll road?
« Reply #48 on: June 06, 2013, 02:23:59 PM »

However, wxfree, if the CTRMA is a subdivision of the state, should we still call it a state highway—even if it's not part of TxDOT?  If not, then what do we call it?

A political subdivision is the same thing as a city, county, school district, hospital district, utility district, etc.  RTAs and RMAs could be thought of as special utility districts.  They could also be compared with counties, the difference being that they have no taxing power, are limited to mobility projects, and have jurisdiction only over the projects that own or operate.

TxDOT is a part of state government; therefore, their roads are state highways.  RMA projects are more like city streets and county roads; they're roads of a political subdivision, not of the state itself.

The previous statement is an assumption, true unless modified.  I've read that RMAs can run state highway toll roads with cooperation of TxDOT.  I have yet to find exactly how that works.  I think Cameron County RMA runs SH 550.  I have not found and read the agreement between them and TxDOT so as to see how that works.  I have looked over the agreement with NTTA about SH 121, and it specifies that the main lanes are removed from the state highway system while the frontage roads are SH 121 and owned by TxDOT.  I have not only an interest in roads, but also in law, so these arrangements are of double interest to me.
Logged
All of my posts represent my personal opinions and the official views of any governmental agency that has good sense.

J N Winkler

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 6279
  • Location: Wichita, Kansas/Oxford, Great Britain
  • Last Login: June 25, 2019, 11:16:10 PM
Re: US route on a toll road?
« Reply #49 on: June 06, 2013, 02:34:16 PM »

What about the PGBT?  TxDOT had it on the books at one point as SH 190 and in fact the present PGBT/DNT stack was originally built as a TxDOT project, but now both the PGBT and DNT mainlanes are under NTTA jurisdiction.
Logged
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

 


Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.