Coronavirus pandemic

[Max Rockatansky]

My gym just posted an update that they are indeed opening on the 12th.  Apparently they are posting their "guidelines"  at some point today or tomorrow.  I'm hoping at this point to be able to just find an adjustable bench and just hang out on it all morning at this rate. 

[kphoger]

Most of my focus has been on not biting my nails or rubbing my face/eyes. 

I've chewed my nails ever since I can remember.  Man, I wish I could stop!

When rubbing my eyes, I've switched from using my fingertips to using my knuckles.

I do observe a lot more soap being used after restroom business.

My personal habits:

I was never one to wash my hands after every time using the bathroom.  I was closer to the George Carlin quote:

"And speaking of my colon, I want you to know I don't automatically wash my hands every time I go to the bathroom okay? Can you deal with that? Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. You know when I wash my hands? When I shit on them! That's the only time. And you know how often that happens? Tops, TOPS, 2-3 times a week tops! Maybe a little more frequently over the holidays, you know what I mean?"

OK, not quite.  But I almost never bothered to wash my hands within my own house.  In public or at work, I washed them only if I either (a) had to touch the toilet with my fingers or (b) noticed I got something on my hands.

But most pertinent is that I only used soap probably half the times I washed my hands.  The other half of the time, I just used water.  Nowadays, though, I'm washing with soap every single time I use the restroom.

I've also noticed that co-workers who used to not wash hands after using the restroom have started washing.

[Max Rockatansky]

With the nail chewing I've had that issue my entire life.  I've managed to mostly switched to picking instead of biting as of late, either way it still makes them look like crap.  I've noticed that I almost only ever chew or pick at work which makes me think it's related to stress. 

Regarding the bathroom; if I manage not urinate all over my hands and avoid touching the plunger then I usually don't wash my hands unless I'm about to go eat (or someone I know is picky might be watching).  The way I figure it, the bathroom door handle is way more dirty than any part of my body or even the surface of my clothing.  My wife was taken aback when I explained all that to her once but at the same token she leaves food out for hours (then eats it) and does things like eat food off of an unclean surface (like the stove or table) or takes a swig of my drinks. 

Regarding fecal matter, yeah that's always going to be a solid hand wash for me.  Granted, I'm I know full well fecal matter and insect matter makes it into food and yet that doesn't bother me. 

[1995hoo]

The fact that washing hands after using the bathroom and when returning to home from the outside isn't common is terrifying. Too many gross people out there.

I've always carried around lotion-infused hand sanitizer for when I'm out and about, but apparently this wasn't common either.

One of the things that bugs me is public restroom design that to some degree renders hand-washing futile. I'm thinking in particular of the restrooms at Verizon Center in DC. The sinks are the type where you push down to turn on the water, but the water then turns off very quickly and most people wind up having to push down two or three times to get enough water to rinse off the soap. Dumb design to require you to re-touch the same part of the device that you touched before lathering your hands with soap.

Then there are public restrooms that use only air dryers but have exit doors that open inwards so you have to pull them open, but the lack of paper towels means you don't have a way to avoid touching the handle that non-hand-washers have also touched. I guess you could go over to a booth and grab a few squares of TP to use to open the door.

(I suppose when I was growing up none of us thought about any of this sort of thing and we all survived OK, but then there weren't any pandemics then aside from the usual things we all got like chicken pox, which spread like wildfire through my first-grade classroom.)

I've always washed my hands after hitting the head. My parents emphasized that to us as kids and it just became ingrained. But I'm certainly washing more thoroughly now. I do think there's something to the idea that a more thorough washing is in order after taking a dump because you're handling TP and the possibility of some sort of bacteria or whatever getting transferred to your hand seems like it ought to be more likely in that situation, especially if you're using the flimsy TP that's prevalent in most public restrooms. (This makes me think of my brother's comment about the importance of doing the "three Ss" in the correct order in the morning because the second "S" will wash out anything you missed following the first "S.") Lately I've also become conscious of washing my hands after blowing my nose if the tissue feels damp or I blow a hole in it.

[Max Rockatansky]

Booked my pass for Yosemite dated for the 18th.  The pass is good for seven days, given the restriction is 1,700 cars a day I'll probably be going the; 18th, 20th, and 21st.  The processing fee was only $2 dollars on recreation.gov and they gave me a PDF pass.  The COVID day use hours are posted as 5 AM to 11 PM.  Apparently the reservation system will be ongoing until October 31st as of now. 

[kphoger]

One of the things that bugs me is public restroom design that to some degree renders hand-washing futile.

Indeed, there are times I use the restroom without actually touching anything except my fly.  I can flush a urinal with the back of my hand or even my elbow.  The door can be opened in one direction by simply pushing it open with my back or shoulder, and in the other direction I tend to open it with only one finger.  Even if the door latches, many have handles instead of knobs, and those can be pushed down with the back of the hand.  I fail to see how, in those situations, using a sink handle that everyone else has touched is all that much more sanitary.

[webny99]

Well, this took an interesting turn.

My theory about hand washing after using the restroom is fairly simple.
If #1, case by case basis.
If #2, always, no exceptions. I mean, seriously.

Normally, you would think that washing your hands is more important after using a public restroom, as compared to at home, work, or any other place with less frequent usage and more knowledge of the potential occupants. However, it really depends on the sink arrangement (or "design", as 1995hoo puts it). If I see automatic soap dispensers, automatic faucets, and blow dryers, I will for sure wash my hands. If one or more of those things are lacking, I may decide that it's not really a net positive to wash them.

It would take a lot for me to skip hand washing after #2, though. Probably once or twice in the past year I've seen bars of soap in use at a public restroom. That might be the only thing that fully turns me off enough to settle for hand sanitizer in the car.

[kphoger]

Probably once or twice in the past year I've seen bars of soap in use at a public restroom. That might be the only thing that fully turns me off enough to settle for hand sanitizer in the car.

Nothing wrong with bars of soap.  Any germs that might survive living on it is quickly scrubbed off and washed down the drain.

And, unless you spend just as long scrubbing with hand sanitizer as you would have with soap, it's not doing as good a job.  Most people tend to only rub sanitizer onto their hands for a few seconds, and that's not long enough for it to be effective.

[vdeane]

Not to mention that studies have shown blow dryers are less sanitary than paper towels, and anyone who touched a paper towel dispenser probably already washed their hands.

[kphoger]

Not to mention that studies have shown blow dryers are less sanitary than paper towels, and anyone who touched a paper towel dispenser probably already washed their hands.

Unless, of course, it's the kind of dispenser that requires you to turn a wheel to get a towel.

[webny99]

Nothing wrong with bars of soap.  Any germs that might survive living on it is quickly scrubbed off and washed down the drain.

And, unless you spend just as long scrubbing with hand sanitizer as you would have with soap, it's not doing as good a job.  Most people tend to only rub sanitizer onto their hands for a few seconds, and that's not long enough for it to be effective.

I have no objection to bars of soap as a concept. For the shower, or use in the bathroom at home, fine. But in a public restroom, where it's sitting on a dirty tray and has been used by potentially hundreds of people, I just can't do it. As far as hand sanitizer, I always rub for a good 10-15 seconds, and often repeat with a second squirt. It seems intuitive to me that you should lather for longer, not shorter, when using an alternative to good ol' soap and water.

Not to mention that studies have shown blow dryers are less sanitary than paper towels, and anyone who touched a paper towel dispenser probably already washed their hands.

The reason I mentioned blow-dryers is because they complete the "touchless" hand washing experience. I actually prefer paper towels myself, preferably the folded kind that you can grab one at a time directly from the dispenser, not the kind with the wheel or pump handle. There's also automatic paper towel dispensers (although for whatever reason, those seem to often have ineffective or dysfunctional sensors; maybe just my luck).

[1995hoo]

The reason I mentioned blow-dryers is because they complete the "touchless" hand washing experience. I actually prefer paper towels myself, preferably the folded kind that you can grab one at a time directly from the dispenser, not the kind with the wheel or pump handle. There's also automatic paper towel dispensers (although for whatever reason, those seem to often have ineffective or dysfunctional sensors; maybe just my luck).

Theoretically, that depends on the type of blow-dryer used. There are still plenty of the old-style type where you turned them on by pressing the button–you know, the ones that are invariably vandalized to say "Push Butt. Rub Hands Gently Under Arm. Tops All." (Why people still do that is beyond me. That joke was old by 1980, yet people still do it 40 years later.) Those are certainly not "touchless," though you need not use your hand to push the button.

[J N Winkler]

I haven't changed how I wash my hands for COVID-19, other than to make sure I wash them at least once when I come in from the outdoors.

I do wash hands (with soap or with whatever substitute foam/gel is provided) whenever I use the toilet, whether at home or out in public.  It is impossible for me to use a toilet without touching myself at least once in the crotch, which is one of two areas on the body with apocrine sweat glands (the other being the armpits), and part of being a member of civilized society is not smearing your crotch smell willy-nilly on surfaces others have to touch.

I do agree that sinks in public bathrooms are often filthy.  This is why I often soap up my hands, wash and rinse the faucet, run my wet hand around the outside of the sink, and rinse the basin before I wash my hands.

I avoid touching my eyes largely by eliminating the urge.  I try to get a full eight hours of sleep each night, I go to bed at approximately the same time every night, and I keep allergies under control by using a neti pot.

When I exit a public bathroom, I generally try to avoid touching door hardware with the pads of my fingers.  If the door opens outward to exit, I generally lean against it or touch the handle with the side of my palm.  If the door has to be pulled inward, I try to do it by laying the handle across my palm.  I was doing all of this long before COVID-19.

Auto flushing in public bathrooms was a health risk even before coronavirus.  I keep my eye on the bowl so I can exhale or hold my breath if the flush mechanism trips.  Optical activation often results in ill-timed flushes, so if I need to do an additional flush to clear the bowl completely (I always try to pick up stray bits of toilet paper in the stall before I leave), I use the knuckle of one finger to press the manual flush button.  I hardly ever try to save water when using the toilet.  While the Wichita area has a climate that classifies as semi-arid, in reality public drinking water comes from an aquifer that is systematically recharged in wet years and is discharged into the Arkansas River as treated sewage once it is used.  If I put a few more gallons into the Keystone Reservoir in Oklahoma, so what?

I never use urinals in public bathrooms if I can possibly avoid them--as far as I am concerned, they are inventions of the devil.

[kphoger]

It seems intuitive to me that you should lather for longer, not shorter, when using an alternative to good ol' soap and water.

Wow, you can lather up hand sanitizer?  Bravo!

smearing your crotch smell willy-nilly

Your mastery of the English language never ceases to delight us.

[hbelkins]

I never use urinals in public bathrooms if I can possibly avoid them--as far as I am concerned, they are inventions of the devil.

Why's that? They're typically better than commodes in terms of upkeep and cleanliness (crap thrown in the bottom of the urinal notwithstanding.)

I've been symptomatic for it for months before it became a thing. Coughing due to drainage in my throat, sneezing due to allergens, body aches and pains due to age and weight and various "itis" visitations, and occasional diarrhea due to stress or something I've eaten disagreeing with me. There's been one confirmed case in my county; a child who was tested prior to an unrelated medical procedure. That child is now reported as having recovered and the parents never tested positive. My county was one of the last three in Kentucky to report a case.

Unless you have an antibody test showing that you did have it, that means very little.

Huh.  I thought that was his point:  symptoms don't mean much.

Maybe I read it wrong.

No, you didn't read it wrong. My point was that there are a whole lot of things that are considered to be symptoms of it that are also caused by a host of other things (as in my example, coughing due to drainage or dust in the throat, sneezing due to dust or allergens, aches or pains due to aging or arthritis or various other muscle/joint strains or ailments, gastrointestinal distress due to something you ate, shortness of breath due to being fat and out of shape) and having one or more of them isn't an automatic "OMG, I may have the 'rona, I need to go get a big Q-tip stuck up my nose to double-check." They've also added symptoms, most notably the vomiting/diarrhea warning. The big joke during the toilet paper shortage was that since people were reacting to a respiratory ailment by buying up all the bathroom stationery, the next time there's an intestinal bug going around, people should go out and hoard Benadryl or NyQuil.

As for washing hands, I don't know that I'm doing it any more often than I did before. I always washed them after using a public restroom, after taking a dump at home, prior to eating if I'd been out somewhere, and after returning from the store. I have taken to using hand sanitizer after every trip to a store when I get back in the car, but I will get out of the habit of doing that once the virus is less of a big deal.

I know someone at my office who never washed his hands after using the restroom, even if he'd just taken a crap. That strikes me as disgusting. I don't always wash my hands after urinating, since I know where my male member has been and it's not likely to have picked up any viruses or bacteria. I can certainly flush a urinal with my elbow or foot.

When our new office opened a couple of years ago, we switched from paper towels to air dryers, which I hate (even the high-velocity ones like the XLerator models). With the advent of the virus, they've installed paper towel dispensers in our restrooms, but they're the ones that have the towels in one continuous vertically-mounted machine where the towels are pulled down one at a time from the center. I don't like those as much as the ones that mount the rolls horizontally and you pull them, or they're dispensed, from the outside of the roll.

[Scott5114]

I feel like if your paper towels need a dispenser, you're probably doing it wrong. My old workplace had used paper towel "dispensers" that were just a slot in the wall that you could pull paper towels downward from. You could also choose to use a Dyson hand dryer that would occasionally trip the breaker.

Where I work now, they use dispensers that pull from a roll of paper towels that come out at pre-determined lengths. The start of the towel hangs out of the dispenser and you pull on it, releasing the towel and a little bit of the next one to grab on to. The problem is, of course, your hands are wet most of the time when you use a paper towel dispenser, so your wet hands cause the towel to lose its tensile strength and tear without actually dispensing the next towel. There's a little wheel you can turn to force the next towel to present itself, but it's possible to tear the towel in such a way that this wheel also gets jammed.

[webny99]

I feel like if your paper towels need a dispenser, you're probably doing it wrong.

Just to clarify, I'm talking about C-fold paper towels, which is what my workplace has. You're supposed to be able to pull one fold and get the whole towel out, while also leaving a flap of the next towel for the next person to pull, somewhat similar to pulling napkins from a dispenser at a restaurant.

Where I work now, they use dispensers that pull from a roll of paper towels that come out at pre-determined lengths. The start of the towel hangs out of the dispenser and you pull on it, releasing the towel and a little bit of the next one to grab on to. The problem is, of course, your hands are wet most of the time when you use a paper towel dispenser, so your wet hands cause the towel to lose its tensile strength and tear without actually dispensing the next towel.

Yes, I know exactly what you're talking about. Hate it when that happens. I'd rather have a pump handle and tear a big piece myself than deal with that nonsense four or five times consecutively.

[Scott5114]

I feel like if your paper towels need a dispenser, you're probably doing it wrong.

Just to clarify, I'm talking about C-fold paper towels, which is what my workplace has. You're supposed to be able to pull one fold and get the whole towel out, while also leaving a flap of the next towel for the next person to pull, somewhat similar to pulling napkins from a dispenser at a restaurant.

Right, C-fold towels don't really "need" a dispenser at all. I've seen some higher-end places that just leave a stack of them in a fancy-looking tray. I'd prefer putting them in some form of container so that they're protected from aerosolized shit, though.

I actually got a really nice chrome C-fold towel dispenser in an auction, but I've never used it because C-fold towels are annoyingly difficult to purchase. Only industrial suppliers like Uline or AmSan tend to carry them.

Yes, I know exactly what you're talking about. Hate it when that happens. I'd rather have a pump handle and tear a big piece myself than deal with that nonsense four or five times consecutively.

Yeah, I always need exactly four towels to dry my hands. Another pet peeve about the dispensers is that they tend to enforce stinginess with the towels. Buddy, if you're a business and paper towel usage is seriously something driving your costs to the point that you're wanting everyone to leave the restroom with damp hands, you need to seriously re-examine your business model, or consider whether owning a business is really the right career path for you.

[bandit957]

I think I'm finally at the point where I can say we should reopen everything - with no major restrictions.

Says the guy who not that long ago said he was afraid to be in public.  What changed so dramatically in the course of the disease that now opening everything is OK?

Also, in addition to things not being as scary now, some of this was on principle. I may have still been afraid to visit certain indoor businesses, but it may have actually been pretty safe. At that point, I just thought people should have a choice whether to visit such places.

[Max Rockatansky]

My gym just announced it's reopening guidelines:

https://www.gb3clubs.com/

Considering how fast I move around I might just keep my mask on or find my altitude training mask.  Kind of crappy I can't access the bathroom (in the locker room) to wash my hands after working out. 

[webny99]

Right, C-fold towels don't really "need" a dispenser at all. I've seen some higher-end places that just leave a stack of them in a fancy-looking tray. I'd prefer putting them in some form of container so that they're protected from aerosolized shit, though.

I actually got a really nice chrome C-fold towel dispenser in an auction, but I've never used it because C-fold towels are annoyingly difficult to purchase. Only industrial suppliers like Uline or AmSan tend to carry them.

OK, gotcha. Yeah, ours pull from the bottom from a wall mount dispenser, but pulling from the top - maybe even just from a regular container instead of a dispenser - makes sense to me, too. I would normally mention that C-fold towels are also available on Amazon, but knowing your thoughts on them, maybe I won't. 

Yes, I know exactly what you're talking about. Hate it when that happens. I'd rather have a pump handle and tear a big piece myself than deal with that nonsense four or five times consecutively.

Yeah, I always need exactly four towels to dry my hands. Another pet peeve about the dispensers is that they tend to enforce stinginess with the towels. Buddy, if you're a business and paper towel usage is seriously something driving your costs to the point that you're wanting everyone to leave the restroom with damp hands, you need to seriously re-examine your business model, or consider whether owning a business is really the right career path for you.

LOL. I always need at least four. I know what you're talking about when it comes to stinginess, but I can't even imagine how it could be enforced with something like paper towels.

[Scott5114]

Considering how fast I move around I might just keep my mask on or find my altitude training mask.  Kind of crappy I can't access the bathroom (in the locker room) to wash my hands after working out. 

It says the bathrooms and sinks will be accessible. I'm not sure if your gym is set up like mine, but there when you walk into the locker room, the sink is to the left, urinals/stalls to the right, and if you continue straight, you're in the actual locker room area. My gym could theoretically close off the locker room by putting a barrier of some kind between it and the bathroom area.

That being said, lack of locker room access would be a dealkiller for me going in. My routine is to stop in on the way home from work, and my work uniform isn't suitable for working out. Going home to change would entail driving across town twice (my work is west of town, the gym is on the west side, and my house is on the east side). I could wear gym clothes under my uniform, I suppose, but that doesn't strike me as being remotely comfortable at work, especially during the summer months.

Right, C-fold towels don't really "need" a dispenser at all. I've seen some higher-end places that just leave a stack of them in a fancy-looking tray. I'd prefer putting them in some form of container so that they're protected from aerosolized shit, though.

I actually got a really nice chrome C-fold towel dispenser in an auction, but I've never used it because C-fold towels are annoyingly difficult to purchase. Only industrial suppliers like Uline or AmSan tend to carry them.

OK, gotcha. Yeah, ours pull from the bottom from a wall mount dispenser, but pulling from the top - maybe even just from a regular container instead of a dispenser - makes sense to me, too. I would normally mention that C-fold towels are also available on Amazon, but knowing your thoughts on them, maybe I won't. 

I do actually carry an Amazon Prime membership, because my wife refuses to let it expire, despite how Amazon has treated us in the past. Each year I try to make the case against renewing it, but as of yet have not managed to amass the requisite political capital to do so. But hey, the Bella Vista Bypass is under construction now, so hope springs eternal, I guess.

Uline manages to disgust me more than Amazon–for all Bezos's faults, he at least hasn't used his money to take over an entire town by force like Liz Uihlein did.

In any case, I try to avoid getting things such as towels and bath tissue online, since even if the shipping is "free" it still is a huge waste of carbon when I can easily just pick some up at Crest. I also am admittedly pretty bad at judging when I need to get more towels, so it's not uncommon for that to be the breaking factor of "Okay, need to go to the store tomorrow". Relying on Amazon entails a two-day delay, or possibly more, since Amazon order arrival reliability has gone straight out the window since the pandemic started.

Yes, I know exactly what you're talking about. Hate it when that happens. I'd rather have a pump handle and tear a big piece myself than deal with that nonsense four or five times consecutively.

Yeah, I always need exactly four towels to dry my hands. Another pet peeve about the dispensers is that they tend to enforce stinginess with the towels. Buddy, if you're a business and paper towel usage is seriously something driving your costs to the point that you're wanting everyone to leave the restroom with damp hands, you need to seriously re-examine your business model, or consider whether owning a business is really the right career path for you.

LOL. I always need at least four. I know what you're talking about when it comes to stinginess, but I can't even imagine how it could be enforced with something like paper towels.

That's the purpose of the dispensers–to give preordained length of towel in hopes that people will accept that as all the towel they deserve and reduce consumption. This is the same reason behind the faucets that give you a spritz of water and then shut off, and automatic soap dispensers (ask yourself, is pushing a pump to get some soap enough effort to justify having an electric motor do it for you?)
[/quote]

[Max Rockatansky]

Regarding my gym they've made a couple updates to the page it seems.  The wiping down equipment part is now in there, although I expected that to be the case.  The sinks are located deep in the heart of the locker rooms, I suspect that they got some complaints and clarified.  For me I usually go lift after running in the morning.  It's only a 1.5 mile trip from my house to the gym, so changing/showering at home is pretty easy. 

[webny99]

Uline manages to disgust me more than Amazon–for all Bezos's faults, he at least hasn't used his money to take over an entire town by force like Liz Uihlein did.

Yeah, Uline has great customer service, but I think they try too hard to be "perfect" and almost come across as superficial because of it, right from the ownership on down. And there seems to be no end of the thick glossy catalogs they send, which seems incredibly wasteful in this day and age. Those things have to weigh a couple pounds each, and they often come to the business address 2 or 3 at a time.

That's the purpose of the dispensers–to give preordained length of towel in hopes that people will accept that as all the towel they deserve and reduce consumption.

Wow, of course. My bad. I took "enforced" way too literally and missed the forest for the trees there.
In any case, I guess I fly in the face of this theory every time I use the dispenser. I just keep grabbing until I have enough to dry my hands properly without the towels disintegrating in real time. I don't think I'd take any more or less if they were easier to grab.

This is the same reason behind the faucets that give you a spritz of water and then shut off, and automatic soap dispensers (ask yourself, is pushing a pump to get some soap enough effort to justify having an electric motor do it for you?)

I've always thought the primary reason for automatic soap and water was to create a "touchless" (and therefore more sanitary) hand-washing experience. I can't say I've ever felt shortchanged by an automatic soap dispenser, although, come to think of it, the spritzes of water are a pretty obvious attempt at conservation. However, the faucets that only give a spritz are usually the kind you have to push on (and hold on, if you want decent water flow), so I guess I just chalked those up to poor and/or outdated design.

[Scott5114]

Uline manages to disgust me more than Amazon–for all Bezos's faults, he at least hasn't used his money to take over an entire town by force like Liz Uihlein did.

Yeah, Uline has great customer service, but I think they try too hard to be "perfect" and almost come across as superficial because of it, right from the ownership on down. And there seems to be no end of the thick glossy catalogs they send, which seems incredibly wasteful in this day and age. Those things have to weigh a couple pounds each, and they often come to the business address 2 or 3 at a time.

Never had a problem with their customer service, it's the Uihleins themselves I don't like. Next time you see one of their catalogs, leaf around in the back for a Very Special Message from ol' Lizzy (in the current catalog, it's page 807). Let's just say I know what channel she gets her news from.

I do value the Uline catalog in the same way that a lot of people use Best Buy–it's a great way to browse for stuff that you might want to buy elsewhere.

Regarding my gym they've made a couple updates to the page it seems.  The wiping down equipment part is now in there, although I expected that to be the case.  The sinks are located deep in the heart of the locker rooms, I suspect that they got some complaints and clarified.  For me I usually go lift after running in the morning.  It's only a 1.5 mile trip from my house to the gym, so changing/showering at home is pretty easy. 

I just checked my gym's website. They are completely open for business, locker rooms and saunas included, and are starting group fitness classes on Monday. However, they're now closing at 9pm every night, which is irritating because on nights that I work I get to town around 11pm, so I still couldn't go even if I wanted to. (Normally it's 24 hours except on weekends.)