ABC, CBS, FOX & NBC Have Lost More Than 77% Of Their Market Share

[Max Rockatansky]

Heh, the sink thing was an issue for me also after seeing The Blob remake.  I don't know why since there was way more gruesome deaths in that movie.

[Bobby5280]

I don't get offended by people using profanity. However, people really do need to read the room and observe a sense of manners and decorum depending on where they might be. Obviously no one would want to blurt out the F-bomb at church. But there are numerous other locations where swearing would be bad. Some people really don't like hearing it either. I'm not going to use profanity around someone I just met.

I've seen some TV shows really go overboard with profanity. The HBO Series, Deadwood might be the most profanity-laden show ever broadcast. There was so much cursing in the show that it either became annoying or unintentionally funny. Or the constant swearing lost all its impact and turned into verbal mud. In either respect the constant profanity did more to distract from the story, actors' performances, etc. than it did to make the setting seem more "authentic." My mother jokingly called the TV series, "Cursewood."

Heh, the sink thing was an issue for me also after seeing The Blob remake.  I don't know why since there was way more gruesome deaths in that movie.

In that scene, wasn't there a foot sticking up in the air out of the sink? I remember a bulge popping out in the pipe under the sink.

I think the roughest dramatic show currently on TV is the Prime Video series "The Boys." That series has graphic violence content that would get any Hollywood movie slammed with a NC-17 rating. Some of the sexual content would also get the NC-17 as well. It's not hardcore porn, but it's still pretty graphic.

[thenetwork]

Children and teens exposed to foul language in TV and movies is not as bad as shows and movies promoting and glorifying pre-marital sex. 

[hotdogPi]

Children and teens exposed to foul language in TV and movies is not as bad as shows and movies promoting and glorifying pre-marital sex. 

Pre-marital sex is fine, as long as the people involved aren't too young. Marriage should have nothing to do with it, especially as many people don't get married until their 30s.

[Max Rockatansky]

Children and teens exposed to foul language in TV and movies is not as bad as shows and movies promoting and glorifying pre-marital sex. 

Better to have pre-marital sex versus waiting and marrying the wrong person.

[kphoger]

Children and teens exposed to foul language in TV and movies is not as bad as shows and movies promoting and glorifying pre-marital sex.

Hey, you might be on the hook for child support x2 for the foreseeable future, but at least you don't need soap in your mouth! 

[kphoger]

Better to have pre-marital sex than waiting and marrying the wrong person.

I'm trying to wrap my head around this.  Are you saying that having pre-marital sex makes you avoid marrying the wrong person?  Or are you saying that people rush to get married just because they can't keep it in their pants?

[Max Rockatansky]

Better to have pre-marital sex than waiting and marrying the wrong person.

I'm trying to wrap my head around this.  Are you saying that having pre-marital sex makes you avoid marry the wrong person?  Or are you saying that people rush to get married just because they can't keep it in their pants?

I would think knowing if you enjoy intercourse with a person would at least be a factor in whether or not you'd consider marrying them.  Waiting until marriage to have sex sure seems like an unnecessary gamble. 

[Bobby5280]

Children and teens exposed to foul language in TV and movies is not as bad as shows and movies promoting and glorifying pre-marital sex.

Simulated love scenes in Hollywood movies and TV shows (whether the characters are married or not) aren't as common as they were decades ago. In most shows they're now a waste of screen time. The same goes for depictions of nudity. There is little if any shock value to that kind of content anymore. That stuff is very tame compared to the content people have easy access to on the Internet.

There is plenty of suggestive content in both TV and movies. The stuff I find more offensive is glorified cruelty perpetrated between people in certain kinds of "reality TV" shows. Or it's Simon Cowell saying hurtfully insulting shit to a contestant on stage. Naked titties don't bother me. Some asshole acting like a sadist to another human being does.

There is a pretty big difference between cosmetic morality and actual human decency, integrity and honor.

[kphoger]

I would think knowing if you enjoy intercourse with a person would at least be a factor in whether or not you'd consider marrying them.  Waiting until marriage to have sex sure seems like an unnecessary gamble. 

I'm having a hard time imagining that there's an otherwise-marriage-worthy woman out there that I'd dislike having sex with so much that it would turn me off from marrying her.  That's a pretty big stretch for my imagination.

For me personally, it was premarital sex in college that (1) resulted in an unwanted pregnancy and made the mom's career path much harder, (2) kept me in a relationship with the 'wrong person' for longer than I otherwise would have stayed, and (3) because of a combination of the first two points, led me to stupidly propose marriage to said 'wrong person'.  Fortunately, she turned down my proposal, and now each of us is with a spouse much better for us.  I can't think of anything positive that came about because of it—other than my maturing as a person through it all, and of course my daughter's life is itself a positive thing because every person has immeasurable value.

[Max Rockatansky]

I would think knowing if you enjoy intercourse with a person would at least be a factor in whether or not you'd consider marrying them.  Waiting until marriage to have sex sure seems like an unnecessary gamble. 

I'm having a hard time imagining that there's an otherwise-marriage-worthy woman out there that I'd dislike having sex with so much that it would turn me off from marrying her.  That's a pretty big stretch for my imagination.

For me personally, it was premarital sex in college that (1) resulted in an unwanted pregnancy and made the mom's career path much harder, (2) kept me in a relationship with the 'wrong person' for longer than I otherwise would have stayed, and (3) because of a combination of the first two points, led me to stupidly propose marriage to said 'wrong person'.  Fortunately, she turned down my proposal, and now each of us is with a spouse much better for us.  I can't think of anything positive that came about because of it—other than my maturing as a person through it all, and of course my daughter's life is itself a positive thing because every person has immeasurable value.

I suppose it is subjective.  I dated a couple prudish women who were seemingly great potential marriage candidates on paper.  That was never specifically the reason I ever broke up with someone but it was a factor at least once. 

Speaking for myself pre-marital sex never resulted in my having children with someone.  One woman I dated became pregnant but ultimately had a miscarriage in the first trimester.  We were a lot more cautious with using birth control after that. 

The only person I ever seriously tried having kids with is my wife after we got married.  That hasn't worked out so far and seemingly isn't going to.

I never dated someone who wanted to wait until marriage to have sex.  If someone had said that it probably would have killed my interest in pursuing a relationship though.

[kphoger]

One woman I dated became pregnant but ultimately had a miscarriage in the first trimester.  We were a lot more cautious with using birth control after that.

Considering that 86% of abortions in this country are performed on unmarried women, and that 95% of abortions are for unintended pregnancies, I'd say that a policy of 'being cautious' with pre-marital sex isn't working out so well overall.

[Max Rockatansky]

One woman I dated became pregnant but ultimately had a miscarriage in the first trimester.  We were a lot more cautious with using birth control after that.

Considering that 86% of abortions in this country are performed on unmarried women, and that 95% of abortions are for unintended pregnancies, I'd say that a policy of 'being cautious' with pre-marital sex isn't working out so well overall.

We certainly weren't being cautious before that pregnancy.  She was convinced that it was hard for her to get pregnant because it had been an issue in her previous marriage.  We had been dating for a couple years at that point.  I figured if we ended up with a kid that it wouldn't be end of the world. 

She did ask me if I thought she should have an abortion and I said no.  The relationship kind of just gradually eroded in the year following the miscarriage.

[kphoger]

For me personally, it was premarital sex in college that (1) resulted in an unwanted pregnancy and made the mom's career path much harder, ...

Here's her story (details removed), below.

The outreach ministry she received help from was started when a board member donated a six-unit apartment building to help young single moms, provided deeply discounted housing as long as she was enrolled in college and met certain goals, matched her up with a mentor who spent time with her every so often, and surrounded her with peers in a similar situation.  She also had free regular counseling from a different (I think) ministry, a home daycare provider who was so flexible as to sometimes keep our daughter overnight, relatives in the area to help out, and an boyfriend turned ex-boyfriend (me) who was not absent.  A lot of single moms don't have nearly that amount of assistance.  Even still, her path forward was hard, with long hours.

I don't think young people have any idea how much of a change having a baby creates in your life.  How it limits you in so many ways.  How it completely redraws so many boundaries in your world.  And to ignore that, or to be ignorant of it, when discussing pre-marital sex is not good.  I remember sitting in a freshman college class in 1999, and the teacher asked the class what the purpose of sex is, and not a single student suggested that perhaps the purpose of sex is to make babies.  That was not a good sign.

Anyway...

When N__ first found out she was pregnant, she worried that her future in music was over. A 19-year-old college student studying music at ___ University, N__ had been living in a dormitory and didn't know how she could raise a child and finish school.

She considered adoption, but she couldn't bring herself to do it.

She transferred to College of __ and began bouncing from home to home, staying with family members. The struggle put strains on her relationships.

N__ turned to a counselor, who suggested she contact ___ Ministries in ___, an organization that among many services helps single mothers with transitional housing and support.

Eight months after her daughter J__ was born, N__ was accepted to the program and found herself living in a six-flat in ___ with other single mothers much like herself.

"After I moved there, I suddenly had this feeling, `I'm going to do this. I'm going to finish college,'" N__ said.

The program's apartment housing was close to College of __, so she could continue her studies. Her case manager and a "mother-to-mother mentor" helped her reorganize her life, from learning how to make a budget, buy a car, get child care, and eventually find her own apartment.

She got a job at a local Cracker Barrel, and within a few years she finished an associate's degree in fine arts. But she decided that wouldn't be enough.

"I thought to myself, OK, I can take this degree and then just get a low-paying job, or I can try to go back to school again and some day be a teacher," N__ said.

N__ turned to __ Ministries again. Staff members there agreed more education would help her in the long run. They enrolled her in their "graduate program," allowing her to get help from them for another two years. She eventually moved into ___, a new housing facility in ___ owned and run by the organization, and graduated from college this year with a bachelor's degree.

Today, the 24-year-old is completely self-sufficient. She's a first-year music teacher and lives in her own apartment in ___ with her 5-year-old daughter.

That's just the sort of postcard-perfect ending the organization says it hopes for with every client.

Started in 1971 by a group of churches, __ Ministries began providing services primarily to homeless teens and has since branched out into numerous programs, including ___, which today provides housing and support to 11 young mothers, with the potential for six more.

The organization is one of many that receive funds through Chicago Tribune Holiday Giving, a campaign of Chicago Tribune Charities, a McCormick Tribune Foundation Fund.

___ accepts teen and young adult mothers between the ages of 17 1/2 and 21.

"The mission is to ... help them to become independent in all the life domains," said H__, project coordinator for ___. "The whole idea is for them to be financially stable, have an education, employment, good parenting skills. That they are able to actually graduate from us and not be subsidized anymore."

The single mother housing program began in 1991 with a six-flat apartment building donated by one of the organization's board members.

In 2003, the organization bought a three-story building with 15 apartments, which the organization named ___.

The program is based on a foster housing model, with strong daily support from a family that also sets an example for the young women, said E__, executive director of __ Ministries.

The facility is organized more like a college dorm than an apartment building, with a floor manager, or "house parents," living on each floor and a community room with a television and couches on each floor.

There, the women gather once each week for dinner, where they talk about their progress and tribulations. The house parents, along with the women's case managers, work with each woman on finding a job and becoming a better parent.

"They're sort of the eyes and the ears and the heart of our program," said H__.

The women have to commit to developing a life plan, secure transportation, pay a program fee of $150 a month–to simulate rent–and comply with rules of the house.

The organization has so far opened two floors to 11 women and their children. With the help of "sponsors," people who agree to fund an apartment for between $2,500 and $10,000 a year, the organization hopes to open the third floor soon, E__ said.

N__ says without the organization she wouldn't have been able to become a teacher.

"I'd be stuck at some dead-end job, with no help and no hope," she said. "Today, I'm self-sufficient. I pay full rent, I don't have any other aid."

[NWI_Irish96]

I do think you should have a pretty good idea you want to be with someone long term before becoming intimate. Intimacy is a powerful force that can make you blind to other issues with your partner that might be problematic.

[Max Rockatansky]

I do think you should have a pretty good idea you want to be with someone long term before becoming intimate. Intimacy is a powerful force that can make you blind to other issues with your partner that might be problematic.

Or just wear a rubber.  That's what I always did when I started dating someone.  They aren't exactly difficult to  find and often can be obtained for free.

[JayhawkCO]

I'm having a hard time imagining that there's an otherwise-marriage-worthy woman out there that I'd dislike having sex with so much that it would turn me off from marrying her.  That's a pretty big stretch for my imagination.

As someone who has had relationship issues with this in the past, if one person's sex drive is completely different from the other's, that can cause many, many issues in the relationship. Better not to get the government involved without figuring that out.

[kphoger]

I do think you should have a pretty good idea you want to be with someone long term before becoming intimate. Intimacy is a powerful force that can make you blind to other issues with your partner that might be problematic.

Or just wear a rubber.  That's what I always did when I started dating someone.  They aren't exactly difficult to  find and often can be obtained for free.

Your response completely side-stepped the point he was making, though.  Wearing a condom does not magically remove the powerful force he talked about.  I, for one, can definitely attest to the intimacy of sex being a force strong enough to make one blind to other issues—both for myself being blind to the other person's issues and for the other person being blind to mine.

[kphoger]

As someone who has had relationship issues with this in the past, if one person's sex drive is completely different from the other's, that can cause many, many issues in the relationship.

Out of curiosity, if it's not entirely inappropriate to talk about, just how different is 'completely different'?

[JayhawkCO]

As someone who has had relationship issues with this in the past, if one person's sex drive is completely different from the other's, that can cause many, many issues in the relationship.

Out of curiosity, if it's not entirely inappropriate to talk about, just how different is 'completely different'?

Someone wanting it 3 or 4 times per week vs. someone wanting it once per month.

[Max Rockatansky]

I do think you should have a pretty good idea you want to be with someone long term before becoming intimate. Intimacy is a powerful force that can make you blind to other issues with your partner that might be problematic.

Or just wear a rubber.  That's what I always did when I started dating someone.  They aren't exactly difficult to  find and often can be obtained for free.

Your response completely side-stepped the point he was making, though.  Wearing a condom does not magically remove the powerful force he talked about.  I, for one, can definitely attest to the intimacy of sex being a force strong enough to make one blind to other issues—both for myself being blind to the other person's issues and for the other person being blind to mine.

I'd be lying if didn't say that I stuck around in a couple past relationships too long because the sex was pretty great.  I was very much aware of the issues in those relationships and they ultimately didn't last.  I'm certainly glad that I wasn't stupid enough to get married to those people. 

FWIW, I've only ever been married once and it is to my current wife.  We met in June 2017 and have been married April 2019. 

[Scott5114]

I'm having a hard time imagining that there's an otherwise-marriage-worthy woman out there that I'd dislike having sex with so much that it would turn me off from marrying her.  That's a pretty big stretch for my imagination.

Not to get too specific but this describes my own marriage to a tee. We've figured out a way to make the marriage still work despite that, but if we were beholden to cultural norms that made that impossible (e.g. if we were Christian) we would have had to divorce.

I saw a video once from a divorce lawyer who said that the idea of "soulmates" or your spouse being your One True Partner for Everything Always is what makes his career so lucrative. Because think about it, what are the odds that you will meet someone who is an exact for you morally, financially, emotionally, sexually, shares all the same hobbies and interests as you, and they live close enough to you that you both run into each other at a young age and can stay together long term? That's a lot to have all riding on the same person. So what do you do if you find someone who hits five out of six, throw them back? Just accept that the sixth thing is something you'll never get to experience?

[kphoger]

We've figured out a way to make the marriage still work despite that

I still maintain that most couple could make the marriage work.  Actually, I imagine that both partners' sex drives lining up is pretty rare.  In the case of my wife and me, I'd say the difference is probably by a factor of 4, and we basically met in the middle.

Obviously, Chris's 3-4 time per week vs monthly is a much larger differential, but I don't think it's something that couldn't be overcome with communication and a willingness by both parties to 'sacrifice' for the other (whatever that means for each).

but if we were beholden to cultural norms that made that impossible (e.g. if we were Christian) we would have had to divorce.

No need to go into the details.  And I keep erasing every response I want to make, because I want to respect you and your situation.

I saw a video once from a divorce lawyer who said that the idea of "soulmates" or your spouse being your One True Partner for Everything Always is what makes his career so lucrative. Because think about it, what are the odds that you will meet someone who is an exact for you morally, financially, emotionally, sexually, shares all the same hobbies and interests as you, and they live close enough to you that you both run into each other at a young age and can stay together long term? That's a lot to have all riding on the same person. So what do you do if you find someone who hits five out of six, throw them back? Just accept that the sixth thing is something you'll never get to experience?

Yeah, the idea of a soulmate is a dangerous thing (says the guy who met his wife on an internet site with "soulmate" in its name).  How do I know if he's The One™?  You know what?  The One™ is whichever person you decide to be with.  There are probably dozens, hundreds, of people in your won city that you could make a half-decent marriage with, and none of them are a 100% perfect match for you.  Who promised that, anyway?  If your spouse hits five out of six, then yeah, consider yourself fortunate, because most people never get all six, and a lot settle for four.  Just accept that they're not absolutely everything you could ever wish for, and you're not absolutely everything they could have ever wished for either.  Happiness is to be found in accepting that and moving forward together, committed in love.  If you keep wondering if perfect is still out there somewhere, then you'll never be satisfied with the one you're with.

[JayhawkCO]

I saw a video once from a divorce lawyer who said that the idea of "soulmates" or your spouse being your One True Partner for Everything Always is what makes his career so lucrative. Because think about it, what are the odds that you will meet someone who is an exact for you morally, financially, emotionally, sexually, shares all the same hobbies and interests as you, and they live close enough to you that you both run into each other at a young age and can stay together long term? That's a lot to have all riding on the same person. So what do you do if you find someone who hits five out of six, throw them back? Just accept that the sixth thing is something you'll never get to experience?

Not to mention meeting that person when both of you weren't already in a relationship. I've met some girls along the way that I thought I probably would have been in a very good spot with, but one or both of us was in a relationship at the time.

[JayhawkCO]

Obviously, Chris's 3-4 time per week vs monthly is a much larger differential, but I don't think it's something that couldn't be overcome with communication and a willingness by both parties to 'sacrifice' for the other (whatever that means for each).

I can assure you that it's easier said than done. Therapy and other things didn't help.