I-85/GA 400 Interchange Upgrade

[Grzrd]

With Torras Causeway in mind, and at the risk of straying too far from original topic, 
where else in country have tolls successfully been discontinued?

Virginia Beach, VA. The current I-264 from I-64 to the Oceanfront used to be VA 44, a toll road until the late 1990s; The Kentucky Parkways; I-190 in the Niagra Falls, NY area; The Merritt Pkwy and Connecticut Turnpike (I-95);The Richmond-Petersburg Turnpike (I-95), Virginia.

GA 400 may (or may not) soon be added to above list (above quote from "Would You Support New Toll Roads?" thread on "General Highway Topics").
Even if tolls are discontinued on GA 400 in 2011, it appears that the toll authority has enough surplus to fund the upgrade to the I-85/ GA 400 intersection by adding a GA 400 S to I-85 N ramp and an I-85 S to GA 400 N ramp:
http://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-politics-elections/ga-400-toll-a-619274.html

completion of the interchange at I-85 and Ga. 400 that DOT estimates at $30 million to $40 million .... However, a continued toll is not necessary to complete that interchange. When SRTA makes the last bond payment in 2011 it will still have $42.5 million in reserves. SRTA officials have pointed out though that it would cost money to dismantle the toll plaza ....
1. Ga. 400 and I-85 connector ramps;  Cost: $40 million;  Anticipated completion date: 2013"
The GA 400/ I-285 interchange rebuild is not among a list of possible projects that could be continued by continuing the toll beyond 2011 because it is simply too expensive and would really tick the voters off:
"Notably absent from the list:  reconstructing the interchange at I-285.  Building it is probably too expensive, at hundreds of millions of dollars.  But keeping the toll might take care of that, since it's possible a private consortium would be more interested in trying to rebuild that interchange years in the future if, in return, it had the right to toll all lanes of Ga. 400.

[Bryant5493]

The only scenario that I'd be agreeable to keeping the tolls on Ga. 400 is to provide additionally funding for that I-85 South/Ga. 400 North connection (unforseen costs could pop up); tearing down the toll plaza; and reconstructing that horrible interchange at I-285. Traffic bound for northbound Ga. 400 has to merge left to right from I-285 East.

If the monies aren't used for that, I'm against keeping the toll. (I'm against the toll, anyway.)


Be well,

Bryant

[ATLRedSoxFan]

I live right by that interchange (Sidney Marcus & 400). I wonder how they're going to execute the Southbound 400 Northbound to !-85 ramp. Could it be part of the long talked about "Big Dig"?

[Grzrd]

Here is a GDOT diagram and written descriptions of the ramps: http://www.nbca.org/BCN/GA400_Ramps/2009-02-26%20GDOT%20GA400-I-85%20Ramps%20Handout.pdf

It is interesting that I-85S to GA 400N ramp will begin by using currently existing Exit 86/ Buford Hwy ramp.

GA 400S to I-85 N looks really tight (45 mph) in order to minimize impact to Lindridge neighborhood.

[Bryant5493]

I keep forgetting about the Ga. 400 South/I-85 North portion. D'oh!

Looking at the graphic, I'd figured that's how GDOT'd do that. It'll be interesting to see it finished -- whenever it gets started. :-)


Be well,

Bryant

[Grzrd]

It was decided earlier this a.m. to keep the tolls until 2020: http://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-politics-elections/ga-400-tolls-to-620626.html

The decision this week has mostly been shrouded in secrecy.  SRTA divulged the list of suggested projects  only when the AJC invoked the Georgia Open Records Act and only at the last possible minute. DOT representatives said they did not have a copy of the list .... As news stories on the prospect of extended tolls emerged, public opinion has largely been harsh.  The project list does nothing to convince Robert Coleman, who said he had no idea a decision was coming or about the suggested projects until informed by the news media.
"Enough's enough," said Coleman, an Alpharetta businessman who pays the toll daily.  "It's paid for."

[ATLRedSoxFan]

Judging by the diagram, that 400 South-to-85 North ramp is going to be pretty tight. I can however, envision the ramp with the extra bridge over Sidney Marcus.

[Bryant5493]

Though, the Georgia tax payers (me included) were told a lie about the tolls being removed when the bonds were paid for, if the toll monies collected between now (and before) and 2020 are put forth to upgrade the key portions of the highway, I'd be cool with that. (Time will tell on this on, though.)


Be well,

Bryant

[Grzrd]

the Georgia tax payers (me included) were told a lie about the tolls being removed when the bonds were paid for

Gov. Perdue maintains that a lie will not be told:

In order to satisfy the original promise that the tolls would come down in 2011, Perdue said, SRTA will see if it can suspend the tolls briefly in 2011.  When they went back online, he said, they would be a "new" toll.

(http://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-politics-elections/ga-400-tolls-to-620626.html)

Only problem is, I don't recall anyone from the Georgia government asking me if I would be in favor of a "new" toll.  GHT - Yes; georgia.gov - No.

[SSF]

yea, the justification given today by Bert Brantley today was that the lawmakers/SRTA/GDOT of 20 years ago didnt realize what might be needed in the future when they agreed to the tolls ending in 2011.   

i can see this line being used in the future again and again; come 2019.

[Bryant5493]

the Georgia tax payers (me included) were told a lie about the tolls being removed when the bonds were paid for

Gov. Perdue maintains that a lie will not be told:

"In order to satisfy the original promise that the tolls would come down in 2011, Perdue said, SRTA will see if it can suspend the tolls briefly in 2011.  When they went back online, he said, they would be a "new" toll." (http://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-politics-elections/ga-400-tolls-to-620626.html)

Only problem is, I don't recall anyone from the Georgia government asking me if I would be in favor of a "new" toll.  GHT - Yes; georgia.gov - No.

Yeah, I saw him today on CBS Atlanta News in that press conference. He's full of bollocks. Glad that he'll be out of office soon.

yea, the justification given today by Bert Brantley today was that the lawmakers/SRTA/GDOT of 20 years ago didnt realize what might be needed in the future when they agreed to the tolls ending in 2011.  

i can see this line being used in the future again and again; come 2019.

Yeah (lol).

--

Here's a blogpost I posted about the Georgia 400 toll extension.

Georgia 400 Toll Extension


Be well,

Bryant

[architect77]

Keeping their word and dismantling this particular toll plaza would do wonders for public perception and help future voter-approved tolls. Even if they started a new toll elsewhere immediately afterward.

Otherwise this broken-promise will be what people remember for decades to come.

[Grzrd]

Otherwise this broken-promise will be what people remember for decades to come.

Beginning in two years:

Current controversy over extension of GA 400 tolls until 2020 will probably be bad news for proposed 2012 sales tax:

"H. Lamar Willis, who has served on the Atlanta City Council's transportation committee for nine years and used to chair it, said he had heard nothing from the state about the toll issue. He said the possibility the Ga. 400 toll would stay makes him wary of assurances now on another issue: the regional transportation tax referendum to come in 2012.

He is concerned whether his area will be treated equitably in a 10-county regional tax. Speaking of the revenue stream, he said, "Once they got it they have not given us, I think, an adequate place at the table."

Clair Muller, who served on the City Council from 1990 to 2010 after fighting Ga. 400, agreed, calling into question whether voters would be able to trust that the projects promised on the referendum will actually get done.

"I think as we move forward [it's important] that we be able to trust a list of projects, and trust what the department is saying before we go to the polls to vote,"  she said." (http://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-politics-elections/toll-extension-would-be-620263.html)

[Alex]

Don't Have 50 Cents For 400? That'll Be $25

Posted: 4:33 pm EDT November 1, 2010Updated: 6:12 am EDT November 2, 2010
ATLANTA -- Some Georgia 400 drivers are crying foul after receiving $25 tickets for coming up short at the highway's toll booths.

Georgia State Road and Tollway Authority officials said there has always been a $25 penalty for drivers who don't have the 50 cents required, and a zero-tolerance policy began this summer.

Commuter Christy Wicker is among those outraged over the hefty fine. She admitted she's forgotten change for the tolls before, but in the past, she's only had to mail in an extra dollar.

"First I thought "˜Holy cow,'"  Wicker told Channel 2's Diana Davis. "I think it's ridiculous. The penalty of $25 seems extreme."

Changeless drivers in the cruise lane have always been charged a $25 fine, according to Tollway policy. Tollway Authority officials said violators in the toll lanes were previously given a break with a $1.50 fine.

"It has always been a violation not to have the toll amount, we just actually did that as a courtesy,"  said Tollway Authority spokeswoman Malika Wilkins.

But that near free ride ended in July with the $25 fine enforcement. Wickers said drivers should have been given more warning, but Wilkins said drivers were alerted enough. She said the Tollway Authority passed out information cards and ran a media campaign weeks before the switch.

Warning signs are still posted on the tollbooths, and Wilkins said they're working.

"We started at 900 a week. Now we're down to about 300 a week, so it has worked,"  Wilkins said.

Her advice to drivers is to carry 50 cents, a cruise card or pay the $25.

Drivers will have to adjust to the change. The toll was set to expire next summer, but in September, Gov. Sonny Perdue and the Toll Authority extended the toll through 2020.

Authorities said the money could help pay to finish the 400 interchange at Interstate 85.

[agentsteel53]

who the hell has fifty cents these days?  coins have been obsolete since the 1970s.  I'd hope I can toss a dollar bill at the attendant and get out of any hassle that way.

(what does that mean, exact change?  keep the change, you filthy animal.)

precisely how many years will pass before we have a sane and reasonable toll collection system based on electronic RFID transponders with a backup system of swiping a credit card like a normal person?  

having to scramble for precisely two quarters is an insult to civilization.

[florida]

This is where half dollars will make their big comeback.

[Bryant5493]

^^

Indeed.

----

I don't think they're (SRTA) going to make you have exact change. I usually do (have exact change) when I drive on Ga. 400, which is very rare, as I live in south Fulton County. But there are other ways to avoid the toll, though they aren't as direct: I-285 to Ga. 400 and a "Columbusonian" route up Peachtree-Dunwoody Road. I think this fine is if you don't have any money at all... it's gotta be.


Be well,

Bryant

[Grzrd]

Here is a GDOT diagram and written descriptions of the ramps: http://www.nbca.org/BCN/GA400_Ramps/2009-02-26%20GDOT%20GA400-I-85%20Ramps%20Handout.pdf

I received an email update from GDOT today and construction will start in near future.  GDOT's reply:

The company is finalizing some design work and should begin construction by the end of February beginning of March. Field trailers will start to be setup in the area in early to mid February. The beginning phase of construction will begin outside of the travel lanes. Construction work will more than likely begin on the roadway later in the month of March.

Coincidentally, I drove through the intersection today coming from the airport and going to Buckhead.  I tried to imagine how the new ramps will alter the appearance of the interchange.  If Bryant5493 is looking for any local video ideas, it might be cool to video driving through the interchange in different directions today ("before"), and then revisit after completion of the project ("after").  I'm guessing the visual change will be dramatic.  Just a notion ...

[Bryant5493]

Coincidentally, I drove through the intersection today coming from the airport and going to Buckhead.  I tried to imagine how the new ramps will alter the appearance of the interchange.  If Bryant5493 is looking for any local video ideas, it might be cool to video driving through the interchange in different directions today ("before"), and then revisit after completion of the project ("after").  I'm guessing the visual change will be dramatic.  Just a notion ...

Good idea. I think that I'll do that.


Be well,

Bryant

[DeaconG]

Maybe folks should consider doing what folks did in Jacksonville years ago when they refused to take the tolls off the old Fuller Warren bridge.  After a year of pennies, tampons and cherry bombs in the buckets the City Council got a clue and took the tolls off...

[NE2]

Maybe folks should consider doing what folks did in Jacksonville years ago when they refused to take the tolls off the old Fuller Warren bridge.  After a year of pennies, tampons and cherry bombs in the buckets the City Council got a clue and took the tolls off...

Occupy 400?

[DeaconG]

As long as you stay out of the Peach Pass express lanes!  "We protest this grievous toll" [THWACK...thumpthumpthump]

[Grzrd]

As long as you stay out of the Peach Pass express lanes!  "We protest this grievous toll" [THWACK...thumpthumpthump]

Are you suggesting renting a pickup truck and putting Reggie Jackson to work on the I-85 HOT lane cameras?

[Grzrd]

I received an email update from GDOT today and construction will start in near future.  GDOT's reply:

The company is finalizing some design work and should begin construction by the end of February beginning of March. Field trailers will start to be setup in the area in early to mid February. The beginning phase of construction will begin outside of the travel lanes. Construction work will more than likely begin on the roadway later in the month of March.

This "Q & A on the News" feature from the AJC also notes that the project will cost $21.5 million, is scheduled to be completed by Dec. 31, 2013, and includes a pedestrian trail from Cheshire Bridge Road to Lenox Road:

This project, which will reconstruct the interchange of Ga. 400 and I-85 by providing connector ramps from Ga. 400 southbound to I-85 northbound and from I-85 southbound to Ga. 400 northbound, is scheduled to begin in late February, Georgia DOT spokesman Mark McKinnon told Q&A on the News in an email. The project will cost $21.5 million and is scheduled to be completed by Dec. 31, 2013. Archer Western Contractors is the contractor. Also, a pedestrian trail, which will include a bridge across North Fork Peachtree Creek, will be constructed from Cheshire Bridge Road to Lenox Road.

[Henry]

Seeing how close in proximity the project is to the parallel-running GA 13 (old I-85), this is going to be a tricky modification. But if they can somehow pull it off, then more power to them!