Was the H E Bailey Turnpike signed north-south before it was I-44?

[bugo]

The Bailey Turnpike goes more north-south than it does east-west.  Was it signed north-south before I-44 came along in 1982?  Was there a time when it was co-signed as I-44 and the Bailey Turnpike and signed both N-S and E-W?

[J N Winkler]

The Bailey Turnpike goes more north-south than it does east-west.  Was it signed north-south before I-44 came along in 1982?  Was there a time when it was co-signed as I-44 and the Bailey Turnpike and signed both N-S and E-W?

Here are the facts I have been able to discover:

*  The Southwestern Turnpike received its permanent guide signs in 1963 (OTA contract no. 271), and some of these were changed out in 1981 when the I-44 designation was applied (OTA contract no. 278--note that this is slugged as a construction contract, not as one of the maintenance contracts through which OTA does the vast majority of its sign replacements).

*  The decision to rename the Southwestern Turnpike as the H.E. Bailey Turnpike was made in 1963, after award of the first signing contract.  As a result, the as-builts show legend substitutions where "SOUTHWESTERN TURNPIKE" was replaced by "H.E. BAILEY TURNPIKE."

*  In 1963, like the other Oklahoma turnpikes at the time, the H.E. Bailey Turnpike had ramp signs pointing the way to "TURNPIKE NORTH" and "TURNPIKE SOUTH."  Cardinal direction words were not used on pull-through signs, which instead gave the names of cities in mixed-case with the name of the turnpike in all caps above a horizontal line.

*  In 1981, the H.E. Bailey Turnpike was signed as North/South I-44, using the I-44 shield and "NORTH" and "SOUTH" cardinal direction tabs on independent-mount assemblies as well as I-44 guide-sign shield and "NORTH" and "SOUTH" cardinal direction words on pull-through signs.

*  Like other turnpikes at the time, both in Oklahoma and in other states, the H.E. Bailey Turnpike had promotional signs.  The general format was "TAKE [turnpike name] TO [city] SAVE X HOUR(S)."  (As a comparison, the Kansas Turnpike opened in 1956 with map signs showing it as a bypass of Wichita and Topeka and standard "AVOID CONGESTION" signs.)

[bugo]

The OTA is sleazy.  It tricks motorists into taking their turnpikes when they meant to stay on I-44.  This happens in two places, both westbound.  The first place is at the Creek Turnpike/US 412 interchange near Catoosa.  I-44 exits off itself and becomes a free road while the mainline continues as the Creek Turnpike, a (surprise!) toll road.  The second place is at the I-35/I-44/Turner Turnpike/Kilpatrick Turnpike interchange, where I-44 exits off itself, this time a one lane left exit.  This was done on purpose, no doubt.  I-44 should be the through route in both of these situations (and the other places that it exits off itself for that matter).  The Kilpatrick Turnpike example is especially frustrating as it isn't a bypass for I-44.

[bugo]

The Bailey Turnpike goes more north-south than it does east-west.  Was it signed north-south before I-44 came along in 1982?  Was there a time when it was co-signed as I-44 and the Bailey Turnpike and signed both N-S and E-W?

Here are the facts I have been able to discover:

*  The Southwestern Turnpike received its permanent guide signs in 1963 (OTA contract no. 271), and some of these were changed out in 1981 when the I-44 designation was applied (OTA contract no. 278--note that this is slugged as a construction contract, not as one of the maintenance contracts through which OTA does the vast majority of its sign replacements).

*  The decision to rename the Southwestern Turnpike as the H.E. Bailey Turnpike was made in 1963, after award of the first signing contract.  As a result, the as-builts show legend substitutions where "SOUTHWESTERN TURNPIKE" was replaced by "H.E. BAILEY TURNPIKE."

*  In 1963, like the other Oklahoma turnpikes at the time, the H.E. Bailey Turnpike had ramp signs pointing the way to "TURNPIKE NORTH" and "TURNPIKE SOUTH."  Cardinal direction words were not used on pull-through signs, which instead gave the names of cities in mixed-case with the name of the turnpike in all caps above a horizontal line.

*  In 1981, the H.E. Bailey Turnpike was signed as North/South I-44, using the I-44 shield and "NORTH" and "SOUTH" cardinal direction tabs on independent-mount assemblies as well as I-44 guide-sign shield and "NORTH" and "SOUTH" cardinal direction words on pull-through signs.

*  Like other turnpikes at the time, both in Oklahoma and in other states, the H.E. Bailey Turnpike had promotional signs.  The general format was "TAKE [turnpike name] TO [city] SAVE X HOUR(S)."  (As a comparison, the Kansas Turnpike opened in 1956 with map signs showing it as a bypass of Wichita and Topeka and standard "AVOID CONGESTION" signs.)

Are these signage plans at pikepass.com?

I wonder why they were going to give it such a generic name like "Southwest Turnpike."

Is I-44 signed north-south today?

[mrose]

The OTA is sleazy.  It tricks motorists into taking their turnpikes when they meant to stay on I-44.  This happens in two places, both westbound.  The first place is at the Creek Turnpike/US 412 interchange near Catoosa.  I-44 exits off itself and becomes a free road while the mainline continues as the Creek Turnpike, a (surprise!) toll road.  The second place is at the I-35/I-44/Turner Turnpike/Kilpatrick Turnpike interchange, where I-44 exits off itself, this time a one lane left exit.  This was done on purpose, no doubt.  I-44 should be the through route in both of these situations (and the other places that it exits off itself for that matter).  The Kilpatrick Turnpike example is especially frustrating as it isn't a bypass for I-44.

I have, in fact, accidentally taken the Kilpatrick when driving from Wichita to Lawton once. I remember being totally mystified that it had happened.

[Scott5114]

The signage plans are, in fact, available at ftp.pikepass.com. They also include a full dimensioned drawing of the square Oklahoma route shield (the one between the diamond and the circle), if you're into that sort of thing.

I can't really fault OTA for how it handles the Creek Turnpike in Tulsa. For most people it is a better route than I-44, and is not inconsistent with how bypasses are signed in other cities (like St Louis).

[rte66man]

The OTA is sleazy.  It tricks motorists into taking their turnpikes when they meant to stay on I-44.  This happens in two places, both westbound.  The first place is at the Creek Turnpike/US 412 interchange near Catoosa.  I-44 exits off itself and becomes a free road while the mainline continues as the Creek Turnpike, a (surprise!) toll road.  The second place is at the I-35/I-44/Turner Turnpike/Kilpatrick Turnpike interchange, where I-44 exits off itself, this time a one lane left exit.  This was done on purpose, no doubt.  I-44 should be the through route in both of these situations (and the other places that it exits off itself for that matter).  The Kilpatrick Turnpike example is especially frustrating as it isn't a bypass for I-44.

I have, in fact, accidentally taken the Kilpatrick when driving from Wichita to Lawton once. I remember being totally mystified that it had happened.

How in the world did you do that?  Southbound 35 to westbound Kilpatrick is a one lane exit that is easy to miss even when you are looking for it.

rte66man

[Henry]

The Bailey Turnpike goes more north-south than it does east-west.  Was it signed north-south before I-44 came along in 1982?  Was there a time when it was co-signed as I-44 and the Bailey Turnpike and signed both N-S and E-W?

Here are the facts I have been able to discover:

*  The Southwestern Turnpike received its permanent guide signs in 1963 (OTA contract no. 271), and some of these were changed out in 1981 when the I-44 designation was applied (OTA contract no. 278--note that this is slugged as a construction contract, not as one of the maintenance contracts through which OTA does the vast majority of its sign replacements).

*  The decision to rename the Southwestern Turnpike as the H.E. Bailey Turnpike was made in 1963, after award of the first signing contract.  As a result, the as-builts show legend substitutions where "SOUTHWESTERN TURNPIKE" was replaced by "H.E. BAILEY TURNPIKE."

*  In 1963, like the other Oklahoma turnpikes at the time, the H.E. Bailey Turnpike had ramp signs pointing the way to "TURNPIKE NORTH" and "TURNPIKE SOUTH."  Cardinal direction words were not used on pull-through signs, which instead gave the names of cities in mixed-case with the name of the turnpike in all caps above a horizontal line.

*  In 1981, the H.E. Bailey Turnpike was signed as North/South I-44, using the I-44 shield and "NORTH" and "SOUTH" cardinal direction tabs on independent-mount assemblies as well as I-44 guide-sign shield and "NORTH" and "SOUTH" cardinal direction words on pull-through signs.

*  Like other turnpikes at the time, both in Oklahoma and in other states, the H.E. Bailey Turnpike had promotional signs.  The general format was "TAKE [turnpike name] TO [city] SAVE X HOUR(S)."  (As a comparison, the Kansas Turnpike opened in 1956 with map signs showing it as a bypass of Wichita and Topeka and standard "AVOID CONGESTION" signs.)

Are these signage plans at pikepass.com?

I wonder why they were going to give it such a generic name like "Southwest Turnpike."

Is I-44 signed north-south today?

Here's a Wikipedia article about the turnpike's namesake, a politician who was a strong advocate for his state's turnpike system.

As for I-44 being signed North-South, this is as big a violator as I-69 being signed East-West in MI (and possibly TX in the future)!

[J N Winkler]

Are these signage plans at pikepass.com?

To add to Scott's comment regarding availability on the OTA's FTP server, most of the maintenance contracts are now also available, under a separate folder, and will include most if not all recent sign replacement contracts.  One of these should answer your question about whether the H.E. Bailey Turnpike length of I-44 has been changed to "book direction" signing (I can't since I haven't driven down it since 2001).

The original construction contracts have been on the FTP server more or less continuously since 2005 at least.  Availability of the maintenance contracts is a much more recent development--only since 2010, I think.

I wonder why they were going to give it such a generic name like "Southwestern Turnpike."

It was and still is a turnpike leaving the state capital in a southwestern direction.  It was also only the third turnpike to be built, so the precedent of naming turnpikes after Oklahoma worthies (one couldn't really call Turner or Kilpatrick "famous" outside Oklahoma, though Will Rogers has an international reputation) wasn't set in stone.  The Oklahoma City-Tulsa route was called just the "Oklahoma Turnpike" during design and construction, and was not named after Turner until it was almost ready to open.  The Tulsa-Missouri route was called the "Northeastern Turnpike" during design and construction, and did not receive the Will Rogers name until later (I am not sure precisely when).  "Southwestern Turnpike" is the logical next step in the sequence, as is naming it after a person around the time it opened.

The use of Indian tribe names (or collective expressions such as "Indian Nations") as a basis for turnpike names did not emerge until much later, in the late 1960's and early 1970's, and for these turnpikes the name on plan set title sheets is usually the same as the familiar name.

[rte66man]

It was and still is a turnpike leaving the state capital in a southwestern direction.  It was also only the third turnpike to be built, so the precedent of naming turnpikes after Oklahoma worthies (one couldn't really call Turner or Kilpatrick "famous" outside Oklahoma, though Will Rogers has an international reputation) wasn't set in stone.  The Oklahoma City-Tulsa route was called just the "Oklahoma Turnpike" during design and construction, and was not named after Turner until it was almost ready to open.  The Tulsa-Missouri route was called the "Northeastern Turnpike" during design and construction, and did not receive the Will Rogers name until later (I am not sure precisely when).  "Southwestern Turnpike" is the logical next step in the sequence, as is naming it after a person around the time it opened........

Roy Turner was the Governor at the time the OKC-Tulsa pike was being pushed and built:
from http://digital.library.okstate.edu/encyclopedia/entries/T/TU022.html
"During World War II the toll idea resurfaced, this time involving highways. After the war, led by Gov. Roy J. Turner, the Senate and House collaborated to establish the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority (OTA), a legislative measure that Turner signed into law April 1947. The first members of the commission were the governor (Turner), J. Wiley Richardson of Oklahoma City, Joe R. Jarboe of Tulsa, Paul Wilson of Stroud, and R. P. Matthews of Sapulpa. The commission was authorized to issue bonds, to construct, operate and maintain the highway, and to return it to the Highway Commission when its cost was recouped. After opponents questioned the legality of road financing through a bond issue, a legal suit proceeded through the state courts and eventually to the U.S. Supreme Court, which refused to consider the appeal. Subsequently, ground was broken on December 20, 1950, near Sapulpa by Governor Turner, and construction began. The eighty-eight-mile-long Turner Turnpike, generally paralleling U.S. 66 between the two cities, opened in spring 1953. (Route 66 remained a free road and became the stuff of legend.) Thousands of people used the Turner Turnpike, and revenues mounted. Thus encouraged, state officials wanted more self-supporting roads."

I doubt 1 in 1000 Oklahomans could tell you who John Kilpatrick was, especially since most of them mispronounce it as "Kirkpatrick" (even on the newscasts). Even Wikipedia doesn't reference who he was on their Pike page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kilpatrick_Turnpike

rte66man

[agentsteel53]

The signage plans are, in fact, available at ftp.pikepass.com. They also include a full dimensioned drawing of the square Oklahoma route shield (the one between the diamond and the circle), if you're into that sort of thing.

grab it for me and email it to me please?  I can't FTP at work...

also, the square was after, but also parallel to, the diamond.  it is the 1948-spec oversize marker, which was used in parallel with the smaller cutout reassurance from ~1948 to approximately the mid-60s.  this era also featured white-square US shields (with a shield outline and a number only) for the oversize contexts, and cutout OKLAHOMA/US reassurance markers.

[J N Winkler]

I have read (though I can't remember where at the moment) that the Turner Turnpike was named after Governor Turner at the specific insistence of the Speaker of the Oklahoma House, who believed that it would turn out to be a white elephant and wished to embarrass its chief advocate.

In Kansas there was a similar quo warrantis lawsuit to establish that the Turnpike Authority did in fact have the legal powers required to build a toll freeway.  However, the impression I receive was that this was a friendly action designed to establish a precedent that would make it impossible for someone to come along and pull the rug out from under the Authority, possibly leaving the Turnpike half-built with no prospect of completion.  State-court precedents don't usually transfer neatly across state lines, but I think it is possible the uncertain outcome of the Oklahoma suit gave rise to nervousness in Kansas.

[rte66man]

Finally found John Kilpatrick's obit (emphasis mine):

"Obituaries/Death Notices

KILPATRICK John Kilpatrick, son of Evaline May Atwood and John Kilpatrick, Sr., died on December 3, 2005. He was preceded in death by his parents, brother William Malcolm Kilpatrick, Sr., sister Bette Jeanne Kilpatrick (Mrs. Edmund T.) Kennedy, wife Mary Elizabeth Cooper Kilpatrick and son Douglas Cooper Kilpatrick. Survivors include children Margaret Elise Kilpatrick of Tulsa and John Thomas Kilpatrick of Oklahoma City, grandchildren John Cooper Ross and Laura Elizabeth Kilpatrick, one great grandchild and many neices and nephews. John was born in St. Anthony Hospital March 28, 1921 and made Oklahoma City his home. He served overseas in the Army Air Force stationed in India during World War II. After he returned, he married Mary Elizabeth Cooper on May 29, 1946. John worked in his family business beginning with Kilpatrick Lumber Company for 57 years. He had a diversified career pursuing many interests ranging from dairy farming to real estate development. He was deeply devoted to Oklahoma, committing most of his life to its improvement. He was president of the OKC Chamber of Commerce, Better Business Bureau and OKC Community Foundation and served in a leadership capacity in the arts, education, conservation and health care. John was chairman of the Oklahoma Turnpike Authority for many years and was inducted into the Oklahoma Hall of Fame in 1990. He leaves behind a wonderful civic and cultural legacy. John loved his family and cherished his many friendships here and in Harbor Springs, Michigan. He was charming and fun to be with. He liked bow ties, antique cars and boats and tried never to miss a parade. Even though he was 84, he never really got old. Services will be held at Westminster Presbyterian Church, 4400 North Shartel on Wednesday, December 7, 2005, at 3:00 p.m. The family requests that, in lieu of flowers, donations be made to the St. Anthony Hospital Foundation, 1000 N. Lee , OKC 73102, OKC Community Foundation, P.O. Box 1146, OKC 73101-1146, The Edna Gladney Fund, 6300 John Ryan Dr., Ft. Worth, TX 76132 or the charity of your choice. HAHN-COOK STREET & DRAPER N. Grand at Classen 848-3744

[Scott5114]

Even Wikipedia doesn't reference who he was on their Pike page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kilpatrick_Turnpike

This is, err, because I haven't gotten around to it. I eventually plan on giving the Kilpatrick as thorough a treatment as the Creek currently has, but haven't had the time to do the research. There is a one-line stub about him, however: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kilpatrick_%28politician%29

I have read (though I can't remember where at the moment) that the Turner Turnpike was named after Governor Turner at the specific insistence of the Speaker of the Oklahoma House, who believed that it would turn out to be a white elephant and wished to embarrass its chief advocate.

This was mentioned in a Tulsa World story about the early history of the turnpike, so it is probably legitimate. The way that the World described it, the decision to name it after Turner was near-unanimous; turnpike detractors voted in favor of the name for the reason you said, while turnpike proponents legitimately wished to commemorate Turner's contribution to the project.

[Bobby5280]

As for I-44 being signed North-South, this is as big a violator as I-69 being signed East-West in MI (and possibly TX in the future)!

The H.E. Bailey Turnpike has been signed using East-West direction routes for as long as I can remember. It's certainly been signed that way during the past 20 or so years. I can't recall ever seeing any North-South markers on I-44 signs along that turnpike. The only time I think there could have been potential for North-South I-44 signing was when the route had Future I-44 markers in the early 1980's.

Nevertheless, the H.E. Bailey Turnpike is more of a North-South route than East-West. Extending the I-44 numbering along the route is a little odd since it breaks with the system of having higher numbers run farther North and East. But more and more rules are getting broken all the time and there is only so many 2 digit numbers to go around. I'd be okay with renumbering it as I-33 if it were part of a larger route, such as a relief highway for I-35 running from San Antonio to Oklahoma City (and then maybe consume I-135 in Kansas) or a route extending deeper into Texas (Abilene, San Angelo, Del Rio).

I have some vague memories of I-44 back when I was a kid -when I-44 ended at the end of the Turner Turnpike and I-35. They were still building I-240 around the north side of Oklahoma City, what later became I-44.

[Scott5114]

The signage plans are, in fact, available at ftp.pikepass.com. They also include a full dimensioned drawing of the square Oklahoma route shield (the one between the diamond and the circle), if you're into that sort of thing.

grab it for me and email it to me please?  I can't FTP at work...

also, the square was after, but also parallel to, the diamond.  it is the 1948-spec oversize marker, which was used in parallel with the smaller cutout reassurance from ~1948 to approximately the mid-60s.  this era also featured white-square US shields (with a shield outline and a number only) for the oversize contexts, and cutout OKLAHOMA/US reassurance markers.

I happen to have it sitting around in PNG form, so...


So, at what point was the square/diamond combo dropped in favor of the circle?

And what year was the diamond changed from yellow to white? Did the diamond ever use round fonts?

[agentsteel53]

interesting that that says OKLAHOMA STATE.  I have never seen a field example of such a thing.  here are some borderless ones that say OKLA STATE, which is the only verbiage I have seen.



by 1970, the circle was definitely in use, and I have seen a 1963 spec sheet which showed circles but in an abstract form - the spec sheet detailed only where particular independent-mount signs were meant to go at an intersection.

the yellow-to-white switch was around 1935.  no embossed shields ever got round fonts, but there are flat with block fonts and flat with round fonts out there.

[Avalanchez71]

They should have cut the squares out in the shape of Oklahoma.

[NE2]

They should cut out geographically accurate Kentucky shields. The Kentucky Bend pieces can be collector's items.

[Avalanchez71]

That would be great with the Fulton County chop piece.

[Brandon]

They should cut out geographically accurate Kentucky shields. The Kentucky Bend pieces can be collector's items.

So that's why Kentucky uses a circle shield.  It's actually commemorating the Kentucky Bend! 

If the above was anything but sarcasm, you might be wrong.

[Avalanchez71]

What is with all the dirt in that picture?  Was the highway that dirty at the time?  How are west is that junction?

[Brandon]

What is with all the dirt in that picture?  Was the highway that dirty at the time?  How are west is that junction?

It looks like a new freeway and the slopes have not yet been seeded with grass, or the grass has not yet grown on the slopes yet.

[J N Winkler]

by 1970, the circle was definitely in use, and I have seen a 1963 spec sheet which showed circles but in an abstract form - the spec sheet detailed only where particular independent-mount signs were meant to go at an intersection.

Based on my study of old OTA signing plans about seven years ago when they first became available, I think the circle was introduced around 1965, but I couldn't swear to it.

[rte66man]

What is with all the dirt in that picture?  Was the highway that dirty at the time?  How are west is that junction?

It looks like a new freeway and the slopes have not yet been seeded with grass, or the grass has not yet grown on the slopes yet.

It was in the 50's when the 39th St Expressway (US66) was first built.  The photo is at the May Av exit, but I can't tell whether it is east or westbound.

rte66man