PennDOT rebuiling I-83 - PA 581 interchange near Harrisburg

[CentralPAGal]

I haven't seen anything about this on here, so I figured I might as well add the topic.

PennDOT to start $22M rebuild of I-83 York split


The project will cost $22 million, will reconfigure several on/off ramps, and add a second lane for I-83 northbound. Thje project is expected to be complete in 2015.

[jpi]

Can't wait for this to finish, this is a project that should have been done 20 years ago. BTW, where in central PA are you from? I am originally from York, PA :-)

[cpzilliacus]

Can't wait for this to finish, this is a project that should have been done 20 years ago.

Agreed.  The ramps there (especially for following I-83 in the direction of I-81) are brutally bad, especially for drivers that have not been through there before.

[CentralPAGal]

Can't wait for this to finish, this is a project that should have been done 20 years ago. BTW, where in central PA are you from? I am originally from York, PA :-)

Yes, it's LONG overdue. Been hearing talk of it actually happening since at least the mid 2000's though.

I'm in the Harrisburg area. Nice to see another person from the area on here!

Agreed.  The ramps there (especially for following I-83 in the direction of I-81) are brutally bad, especially for drivers that have not been through there before.

Yeah, its just not capable of handling the trafficl load. During rush hour, 83 north backs up several miles.

It would be really nice if they could redo the whole thing as a high-speed interchange, as the trumpet design is hopelessly outdated. However, the money just isn't there for that, and neither is the space for it

[Strider]

I remember going through this interchange.. it's seriously dangerous.. especially from PA 581 East to I-83 South.. i almost got into a crash a couple of times out there. Glad to hear they are rebuilding it.

Any photos of the proposed interchange?

[CentralPAGal]

Any photos of the proposed interchange?

http://www.i-83beltway.com/ess1/i83pa581.html

It's a concept from 2011, but as I understand it, the plans are still very close to what's going to be done.

[briantroutman]

As I understand it, the new interchange is almost an exact overlay on the existing one, so I don't see how this reconstruction really represents much of an improvement. Yes, there will eventually be two lanes on the through movement for I-83 north (which is a good thing) and the tangled mess of on/off ramps at Highland Park and Lemoyne will be cut off. But you'll still have the same bad geometry–the same "exit to stay on I-83", the same sharp trumpet loop where trucks overturn regularly. So overall, as far as I'm concerned, problem not solved.

I'm in the Harrisburg area. Nice to see another person from the area on here!

I'm originally from Williamsport but lived a few years in Harrisburg...know the roads in that part of the world very well. The Midstate is an ideal home base for a roadgeek.

[CentralPAGal]

Update: Construction has started to pick up for the spring. Most of the ramps are graded. I managed to get some pictures of the ramps, and the current status of the widening of 83's northbound lanes.

Disclaimer: I make no claim to be competent at photography.


Ramp to Lowther St. from I-83N. Present on/off ramps can be seen above, behind Jersey barriers.


Same ramp, connecting to Lowther St.


I-83N widening, right where the Lowther St. ramp will split off


Looking down I-83 from the new bridge


Ramps on I-83S side. In the foreground is the PA 581 ramps to I-83 (will travel straight) and Lowther St. (curved part). In the middle is the new 10th St./Lowther St. ramp to I-83S. Existing I-83 ramps in the background


10th St./Lowther St. intersection, with new ramps and existing ramps

[sbeaver44]

I was on this yesterday and heard on the news they made changes over the weekend.  On 83 North, the Exit 41B Highland Park ramp is now closed.  Exit 42 to Lemoyne is still open (for now).  Before the split with 581, there is a newly opened ramp labeled "Exit 41B - Lemoyne" that goes to where the old NB Highland Park ramp went.  The ramp splits into a left and right turn lane for Lowther St, but the left turn lane isn't paved yet, so to turn left on Lowther requires an awkward backwards-right turn.

There is a new overhead sign gantry for the 581/83 North split just before the Lowther Street overpass. It looks very nice.  I don't have pictures - sorry!

A VMS on 83 South before the 581 split indicates that "Wednesday PM" (5/28) the ramp for Highland Park will be closed and to use the Exit 42 - Lemoyne exit to access Lowther Street.  On 83 South, the exit for Highland Park is now labeled Exit 6C.  I interpret this to mean that Highland Park in this direction will only be accessible from East 581 and that the ramp from 581 to South 83 will be some sort of collector-depositor setup.

[ARMOURERERIC]

The sooner this gets done the better in that from what I read, it was the delays and the resultant timing of the construction that caused the PTC to delay the actual mainline work on widening the turnpike westshore to 6 lanes.  They did not want to risk both projects going on at the same time.

[CentralPAGal]

The sooner this gets done the better in that from what I read, it was the delays and the resultant timing of the construction that caused the PTC to delay the actual mainline work on widening the turnpike westshore to 6 lanes.  They did not want to risk both projects going on at the same time.

I was wondering why that widening project seemed to just disappear after they widened some of the bridges down that way. Makes sense though.

[jpi]

Thanks for the update! I can't see the pics on work PC but will check them out later on my laptop, I have not driven through this interchange since superbowl weekend and will be back up in the area the end of next month\ beginning of July, BTW I am looking at doing a central PA road meet sometime in the next year and a half when the Mt Rose AVE interchange construction kicks in in the York area (my home town) and plan to add this as part of the tour. :-)

[CentralPAGal]

On 83 South, the exit for Highland Park is now labeled Exit 6C.  I interpret this to mean that Highland Park in this direction will only be accessible from East 581 and that the ramp from 581 to South 83 will be some sort of collector-depositor setup.

Yep, that appears to be the plan. Old I-83 exit 41, new 581 exit 6C, (and 581 exit 6B as I understand it) will be separated from I-83 by a CD type thing

Additionally, seeing as the last pics I posted are nearly 2 months old, and obviously do not reflect the current status, maybe I'll try to get some new ones to post this weekend, if I can find some time to.

[CentralPAGal]

Update:

The second ramp change occurred last night. Old I-83S exit 41B is now 581 exit 6C.
http://www.abc27.com/story/25640750/penndot-makes-more-changes-at-i-83-york-split

[KEVIN_224]

I saw this huge BGS and gantry sitting alongside I-83 on June 18th, while riding out of Harrisburg towards I-76/Pennsylvania Turnpike:

[PHLBOS]

That's probably the first PennDOT spec'd BGS with the MUTCD 2009 LEFT Exit tab I've actually seen. 

Personally, I still prefer MassDOT's full-width yellow LEFT Exit (that predated MUTCD 2009) but PennDOT didn't do too shabby of a job implementing the new MUTCD standard nonetheless.

Side bar: Is it me or are states (not just PA) using more lower-height numerals for their 2di shields on their recent BGS'?  The 81 on that 2di shield appears to be one size smaller than what's been applied to previous shields.

[rickmastfan67]

That's probably the first PennDOT spec'd BGS with the MUTCD 2009 LEFT Exit tab I've actually seen. 

Personally, I still prefer MassDOT's full-width yellow LEFT Exit (that predated MUTCD 2009) but PennDOT didn't do too shabby of a job implementing the new MUTCD standard nonetheless.

Visit Pittsburgh.  We have them everywhere from PA-28 to I-279 & I-376.  I think all our left exits over here have them already.

[Mr_Northside]

Visit Pittsburgh.  We have them everywhere from PA-28 to I-279 & I-376.  I think all our left exits over here have them already.

Though the PA-28 NB signs in the Etna area must have been designed before then, cause even though new signs along the Parkways already appeared with the "Left" tabs, the new signs for Etna & PA-8 North don't have them.  (though they're not all that new anymore)

[ARMOURERERIC]

I gotta ask the OT question.  How much work is required to make it I-581? Is PA even interested in that?  Are such improvements in the Decade of investment?

[PHLBOS]

I gotta ask the OT question.  How much work is required to make it I-581? Is PA even interested in that?

Given that PA 581's a fairly new road (it was completed in 1995), if PennDOT wanted it to be an Interstate (but the federal funds weren't available at the time); the road would've already been built to Interstate standards (was it?) in anticipation of such a designation IMHO.

[CentralPAGal]

I gotta ask the OT question.  How much work is required to make it I-581? Is PA even interested in that?

Given that PA 581's a fairly new road (it was completed in 1995), if PennDOT wanted it to be an Interstate (but the federal funds weren't available at the time); the road would've already been built to Interstate standards (was it?) in anticipation of such a designation IMHO.

Only Exits 1 (I-81) through 3 (US 11/Carlisle Pike) is relatively new. I believe the rest is from the late 50s or early 60s.


Also, the I-83N loop ramp for third street is scheduled for closure this upcoming Tuesday:

http://www.abc27.com/story/25821870/i-83-north-exit-for-third-street-in-lemoyne-to-close-next-week

[briantroutman]

How much work is required to make it I-581?

Given that PA 581's a fairly new road (it was completed in 1995)...

Only Exits 1 (I-81) through 3 (US 11/Carlisle Pike) is relatively new. I believe the rest is from the late 50s or early 60s...

Yes, as was pointed out, the creation of "581"  in the '90s was little more than a new number and a few new miles of freeway to link between Carlisle Pike and I-81.

As a purpose-built roadway, the original project was the east-west Harrisburg Expressway, which picked up eastbound traffic at the Carlisle Pike (US 11) in Mechanicsburg, bypassed Camp Hill, Lemoyne, and Harrisburg as a freeway, and finally petered out to an upgraded (but still at-grade) Paxton Street headed toward Hershey.

The Harrisburg Expressway seems to have been designed to meet specific regional traffic concerns without much consideration for the fledgling Interstate system and numerical designations that would soon follow. The result is I-83 exiting itself twice at it doglegs its way on pre-Interstate expressways through Harrisburg.

One thing that I've never understood is what appears to be the selective enforcement of Interstate design standards. There are parts of I-83, I-78, and I-70 in Pennsylvania (just to name a few) that either did or do violate Interstate standards, but somehow, these got a pass and received Interstate designations, anyway. I can only imagine that this is because in the '50s and '60s, there was the political will at AASHO and the state highway departments to get as much Interstate mileage on the books as quickly as possible–and today, there isn't.

[Gnutella]

That's probably the first PennDOT spec'd BGS with the MUTCD 2009 LEFT Exit tab I've actually seen. 

Personally, I still prefer MassDOT's full-width yellow LEFT Exit (that predated MUTCD 2009) but PennDOT didn't do too shabby of a job implementing the new MUTCD standard nonetheless.

Side bar: Is it me or are states (not just PA) using more lower-height numerals for their 2di shields on their recent BGS'?  The 81 on that 2di shield appears to be one size smaller than what's been applied to previous shields.

That's Pennsylvania signage at its best. Whoever made it should make all the signs across the entire Commonwealth.

Visit Pittsburgh.  We have them everywhere from PA-28 to I-279 & I-376.  I think all our left exits over here have them already.

Though the PA-28 NB signs in the Etna area must have been designed before then, cause even though new signs along the Parkways already appeared with the "Left" tabs, the new signs for Etna & PA-8 North don't have them.  (though they're not all that new anymore)

The Etna interchange was reconstructed about eight years ago, which explains why the signs don't have the large "left" exit tabs.

I gotta ask the OT question.  How much work is required to make it I-581? Is PA even interested in that?

Given that PA 581's a fairly new road (it was completed in 1995), if PennDOT wanted it to be an Interstate (but the federal funds weren't available at the time); the road would've already been built to Interstate standards (was it?) in anticipation of such a designation IMHO.

Only Exits 1 (I-81) through 3 (US 11/Carlisle Pike) is relatively new. I believe the rest is from the late 50s or early 60s.


Also, the I-83N loop ramp for third street is scheduled for closure this upcoming Tuesday:

http://www.abc27.com/story/25821870/i-83-north-exit-for-third-street-in-lemoyne-to-close-next-week

I was about to say that PA 581 lacks interior shoulders from Carlisle Pike to I-83. That segment has a very tight right of way through a heavily developed area, so while everything else about it meets current Interstate standards, the lack of interior shoulders precludes an Interstate designation.