Does an ONLY painted on the road under a turn arrow make a difference?

Started by NE2, February 08, 2013, 12:05:56 PM

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NE2

Here I think it's safe to assume that the rightmost northbound lane is not right turn only until the light: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=28.215345,-82.738018&spn=0.002165,0.004128&gl=us&t=k&z=19
So there are at least some cases where a right arrow does not immediately mean 'this lane turns right'.

But what about the more general case?
On a single lane road, if the only lane is marked with a left turn arrow, and no relevant signs are present, are you allowed to turn right?
If a new subdivision opens across the street and they don't bother adding a straight arrow to one of the turn arrows, is going straight illegal?

Does a straight arrow have the same meaning? I've often seen a straight arrow used to imply direction of travel rather than which way one must turn, but if it's next to other turn arrows (example: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=28.369309,-81.535013&spn=0.001076,0.002064&gl=us&t=k&z=20&layer=c&cbll=28.369309,-81.535013&panoid=2MBNfFkZ9pBOVFMbsQddjg&cbp=12,359.87,,0,10.7 ) does it prevent turning right? Or does the standard rule about turning from the rightmost lane apply?
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".


jeffandnicole

Quote from: NE2 on February 08, 2013, 12:05:56 PM
Here I think it's safe to assume that the rightmost northbound lane is not right turn only until the light: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=28.215345,-82.738018&spn=0.002165,0.004128&gl=us&t=k&z=19
So there are at least some cases where a right arrow does not immediately mean 'this lane turns right'.

But what about the more general case?
On a single lane road, if the only lane is marked with a left turn arrow, and no relevant signs are present, are you allowed to turn right?
If a new subdivision opens across the street and they don't bother adding a straight arrow to one of the turn arrows, is going straight illegal?

Does a straight arrow have the same meaning? I've often seen a straight arrow used to imply direction of travel rather than which way one must turn, but if it's next to other turn arrows (example: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=28.369309,-81.535013&spn=0.001076,0.002064&gl=us&t=k&z=20&layer=c&cbll=28.369309,-81.535013&panoid=2MBNfFkZ9pBOVFMbsQddjg&cbp=12,359.87,,0,10.7 ) does it prevent turning right? Or does the standard rule about turning from the rightmost lane apply?

In this case, when viewing the intersection from the right turn lane, there is a 'No Right Turn' sign posted next to the right turn lane, making the entire argument invalid.

Having said that, unless the painted line is worn away or not updated for a new leg of the intersection, one should obey what they see.  Otherwise, the same argument could be made if the painted arrow was a left and straight arrow, but not a right arrow.  Is it necessary to paint 'Only' in that case, since traffic can 'Only' turn left or continue straight?

NE2

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 08, 2013, 12:41:51 PM
In this case, when viewing the intersection from the right turn lane, there is a 'No Right Turn' sign posted next to the right turn lane, making the entire argument invalid.
Right. Assume that's not there.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 08, 2013, 12:41:51 PM
Having said that, unless the painted line is worn away or not updated for a new leg of the intersection, one should obey what they see.  Otherwise, the same argument could be made if the painted arrow was a left and straight arrow, but not a right arrow.  Is it necessary to paint 'Only' in that case, since traffic can 'Only' turn left or continue straight?
Yes, the same question can be asked about a straight and left: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=28.362628,-81.563262&spn=0.004324,0.008256&gl=us&t=m&layer=c&cbll=28.362533,-81.563276&panoid=-08wNe-BkOY1MTuu40VErQ&cbp=12,12.26,,0,7.08&z=18 Does this in itself prohibit right turns, or does the general rule of turning from the rightmost lane apply?
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

NE2

I found the following: http://www.dot.state.fl.us/trafficoperations/Operations/Studies/TEM/FDOT_Traffic_Engineering_Manual_revised_November_2012.pdf
QuoteWhere a movement that would otherwise be legal is to be prohibited, the lane use arrow symbol should be accompanied by the word "ONLY" .

Also here: http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009/part3/part3b.htm#section3B20 (bold added)
QuoteWord, symbol, and arrow markings, including those contained in the "Standard Highway Signs and Markings" book (see Section 1A.11), may be used as determined by engineering judgment to supplement signs and/or to provide additional emphasis for regulatory, warning, or guidance messages.
According to this, even ONLY does not mean anything without signs.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

roadfro

Generally speaking, at least in my understanding, it's the sign that establishes a turn prohibition and not a pavement marking.

The "ONLY" legend on pavement in the first example seems to be applied where the turn lane becomes a lane drop or a trap, i.e. the right turn has to be performed if you continue forward in that particular lane. Without looking specifically, I believe this is the intent of using "ONLY", i.e. where a mandatory lane movement applies to a lane that isn't in a turn pocket.

The first link in the OP is interesting in that there's a continuous right turn lane between intersections. That seems really uncommon to me, and I'm curious why it's not just striped as a normal lane until getting close to the lane drop at the next intersection.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

KEK Inc.

The ONLY is implied if there's only one arrowhead.  Though it's Florida.  They like to put 'MERGE' on all of the arrows on freeways.  Most states don't do that.
Take the road less traveled.

PurdueBill

Quote from: NE2 on February 08, 2013, 12:05:56 PM
Does a straight arrow have the same meaning? I've often seen a straight arrow used to imply direction of travel rather than which way one must turn, but if it's next to other turn arrows (example: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=28.369309,-81.535013&spn=0.001076,0.002064&gl=us&t=k&z=20&layer=c&cbll=28.369309,-81.535013&panoid=2MBNfFkZ9pBOVFMbsQddjg&cbp=12,359.87,,0,10.7 ) does it prevent turning right? Or does the standard rule about turning from the rightmost lane apply?

A straight lane-use assignment arrow would mean straight-through movement for that lane.  If they want an arrow to indicate general traffic direction, then the wrong-way arrow is appropriate, not a lane-use arrow.

Bumppoman

This thread seems to be relevant for a question to which I couldn't find the answer myself:

I drive NYS Route 12 between Binghamton and Norwich several times a week, and all week, a striping company has been out performing work between Nimmonsburg and Chenango Forks.  They've been using a grinding machine to remove the painted asphalt throughout.  Here's the curious part, though:  in several locations, where the paint was in good shape, they simply ground off the word "ONLY" and left the turn arrow.  And where they did decide to repaint, they only repainted the arrow.  Is there any logical reason for this?  I've been wondering all week.

CANALLER

BUMP:   We began phasing out the "ONLY"'s two summers ago.  The latest wording is that they'll only be required for a trap, or a situation where additional emphasis is needed.  This saved about $200,000 on that summer's contract.  This of course presumes that travellers can figure out that a standard arrow in a turning lanes means they must turn that way.  Of course you can sit back and watch traffic for an hour, and it doesn't tale long to realize that you should never expect a driver to do what should be obvious.   On our contract, where the arrows were good enough to remain, the arrows were indeed ground off and the crew moved on.  Sounds like Binghamton D.O.T. used the same idea.  The next time Rte. 12 is striped, they might very well remove the arrow and any "ONLY"'s that are left, and just paint new arrows.   I haven't heard any word yet that the lane use signs will also drop the "ONLY", but it's possible in the future; Ontario's have been that way for many years.

N.E.:  I couldn't get a good view of your fist location, but the second one was better.  Straight arrows aren't used that often, except to emphasize that certain lanes are meant to be through lanes only.  IN the location you highlighted (Int'l Dr. if I remember right), there was a slip ramp just behind the truck in the right lane.  So all travellers turning right should've been off the road before the signal.  Slip ramps like that are often controlled with only a Yield sign, which allows those turning right to keep moving and also reduces the volume of traffic at the signalized intersection.

roadfro

^ Seems like the ONLYs that weren't in trap lanes could have been left in place and allowed to fade away with time, which could have saved more on the contract.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

Brandon

No.  IDOT District 3 does not paint "ONLY" on turn lanes.  They tend to paint multiple arrows in succession - usually three.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton, "Game of Thrones"

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg, "Monty Python's Life of Brian"

Bumppoman

Thanks for the quick (and official!) reply.  I figured it might be budgetary.  Today I was driving U.S. 11 on the east side of Binghamton, and noticed the same recent treatment there (within the last two weeks).  Some of the "ONLY" indicators had been repainted here, and the choice to use them or not seemed very haphazard to me.  One was an obvious trap, but I could see no difference between several of the others and the ones where only arrows remained.  I also noticed that where the "ONLY" had been repainted, it was moved from being directly beneath the arrow to several feet beyond the arrow.  Curious indeed.

CANALLER

I asked the very same question about leaving newer "ONLY"'s in place.  The answer I got was that someone figured that after another year or two, the parts of the letters in the wheel paths would be worn off, and the rest would remain and look bad.

Bumpy, I'm not saying the reason for the switch was budgetary.  IT may have been part (or all) of it, but I don't know for sure.  I just mentioned the $200,000 reduction in cost because we used so many of them that it wound up being a 10% reduction in the value of that contract.  But in terms of a nationwide total, the amounts saved are just a miniscule portion of the billions spent each year.



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