Business routes that don't connect at both ends (AHTD)

[bugo]

Arkansas is notorious for having business routes that are spurs.  This is silly.  Isn't the point of a business route to connect to the parent at each end, or to be signed as a spur?  A good example is US 63B in Jonesboro (which really should be AR 463.)  The purpose of a business route is that you know you can exit onto the business route and follow it all the way back to the main route.  How can you do this if the B route isn't signed all the way through?  It's another example of bad signage practices.

[adventurernumber1]

I agree.

[Arkansastravelguy]

I don't think that's as bad as North Carolina and their business routes that should be 3dis. Like Business 85 in Greensboro/ High Point

[The Nature Boy]

North Carolina is the one state that seems to not understand how this whole interstate thing works.

[roadfro]

The purpose of a business route is simply to travel through the urbanized core or business district. Although most business routes do reconnect to the parent on the other side of the town (usually due to the business route being the former alignment of the main route), this is not required.

Maybe they're taking a page from the Interstates. Intestate Business routes can be of the Loop or Spur variety (although the spur variety is far fewer in number).

[adventurernumber1]

North Carolina is the one state that seems to not understand how this whole interstate thing works.

I don't think that's as bad as North Carolina and their business routes that should be 3dis. Like Business 85 in Greensboro/ High Point

At least it's done right in Winston-Salem  but I do like Business Route 40 in Winston-Salem.

[Zeffy]

The purpose of a business route is that you know you can exit onto the business route and follow it all the way back to the main route.  How can you do this if the B route isn't signed all the way through?  It's another example of bad signage practices.

Like Roadfro said, I don't think it's necessarily to connect to the main route at the other side - more like to find downtown areas or commercial districts of urban areas.

[WashuOtaku]

I don't think that's as bad as North Carolina and their business routes that should be 3dis. Like Business 85 in Greensboro/ High Point

Thread is about spur routes and you simply attack North Carolina's business routes, none of which act as a spur.  I-40 Business through Winston-Salem and I-85 Business through Greensboro were downgraded because the main interstates bypass the cities and the old alignments no longer meet interstate grade.  Plans are now in motion to improve I-40 Business.

To say the state doesn't understand interstates is funny when they seem to be the most strict about it.

[cjk374]

I agree with bugo.  Especially in Arkansas...their business routes are former alignments, but then either they decide to remove the business signage (for what seems to be no reason), or they'll remove the route from their system.

Magnolia, AR has examples of both.  US 82B used to multiplex with US 371 (on what was US 82's ORIGINAL alignment!) from just west of the courthouse square to the junction of current US 82 bypass.  Not anymore!

Then there is US 79B.  It leaves the parent route on the south side of Magnolia and ends at US 82B just 1 block east of the courthouse square.  Its original route continues straight ahead on AR 355 (through Southern Arkansas University campus) to US 82 bypass, then straight ahead on Columbia County 13 to the town of McNeil.  Take the wye to the right onto AR 98 to get back to the US 79 parent route on the north end.

[The Nature Boy]

I don't think that's as bad as North Carolina and their business routes that should be 3dis. Like Business 85 in Greensboro/ High Point

Thread is about spur routes and you simply attack North Carolina's business routes, none of which act as a spur.  I-40 Business through Winston-Salem and I-85 Business through Greensboro were downgraded because the main interstates bypass the cities and the old alignments no longer meet interstate grade.  Plans are now in motion to improve I-40 Business.

To say the state doesn't understand interstates is funny when they seem to be the most strict about it.

Strict? With I-73/74 they jumped the gun on building them when states to the north hadn't even begun to plan to build them. I haven't seen one instance where the NCDOT was strict about interstate designation.

I will give them credit for I-95 Business through Fayetteville though. It's a nicely designed highway that connects at both ends and provides easy access to downtown and the arena.

[Arkansastravelguy]

I don't think that's as bad as North Carolina and their business routes that should be 3dis. Like Business 85 in Greensboro/ High Point

Thread is about spur routes and you simply attack North Carolina's business routes, none of which act as a spur.  I-40 Business through Winston-Salem and I-85 Business through Greensboro were downgraded because the main interstates bypass the cities and the old alignments no longer meet interstate grade.  Plans are now in motion to improve I-40 Business.

To say the state doesn't understand interstates is funny when they seem to be the most strict about it.

I laughed at the strict part as well. So are you saying anytime a new interstate alignment is built the old should be a business route? That seems silly. Business routes say in their name what they are there for... To find businesses. And while Arkansas business routes are screwy, at least they are used to find... What was it? Businesses.


iPhone

[hbelkins]

What I don't really understand about North Carolina is why the Green I-40 segment in Winston-Salem didn't instead become a 3di when the existing I-40 was built. 640 was available at the time, and so was 840. Same for business I-85 in Greensboro.

I understand what happened in Greensboro when the new I-40 was built. The state was going to lose federal funding for maintenance of what became Green I-40, and they could put I-73 on the new segment that would otherwise be unnumbered, so they moved I-40 back to the downtown route.

[WashuOtaku]

What I don't really understand about North Carolina is why the Green I-40 segment in Winston-Salem didn't instead become a 3di when the existing I-40 was built. 640 was available at the time, and so was 840. Same for business I-85 in Greensboro.

I understand what happened in Greensboro when the new I-40 was built. The state was going to lose federal funding for maintenance of what became Green I-40, and they could put I-73 on the new segment that would otherwise be unnumbered, so they moved I-40 back to the downtown route.

The Winston-Salem section is one of the earliest freeways the state has built (pre-dates the interstate); it simply didn't qualify as an interstate once I-40 was moved to new alignment south of the city.  AASHTO/FHWA would likely not approve a 3di on that route till it has been upgraded.  Next year or 2016 they plan to close off the entire downtown section to be rebuilt from scratch, it's that bad.

[WashuOtaku]

I don't think that's as bad as North Carolina and their business routes that should be 3dis. Like Business 85 in Greensboro/ High Point

Thread is about spur routes and you simply attack North Carolina's business routes, none of which act as a spur.  I-40 Business through Winston-Salem and I-85 Business through Greensboro were downgraded because the main interstates bypass the cities and the old alignments no longer meet interstate grade.  Plans are now in motion to improve I-40 Business.

To say the state doesn't understand interstates is funny when they seem to be the most strict about it.

Strict? With I-73/74 they jumped the gun on building them when states to the north hadn't even begun to plan to build them. I haven't seen one instance where the NCDOT was strict about interstate designation.

I will give them credit for I-95 Business through Fayetteville though. It's a nicely designed highway that connects at both ends and provides easy access to downtown and the arena.

Keep in mind that I-73/I-74 was mandated by congress and has its own set of rules all together; different approach compared to we built a section into interstate grade, could you make it an interstate like I-495.  Also, the argument of other states didn't start their sections is B.S., that has never stopped sections of an Interstate from getting designated, just look at I-69.

[WashuOtaku]

I don't think that's as bad as North Carolina and their business routes that should be 3dis. Like Business 85 in Greensboro/ High Point

Thread is about spur routes and you simply attack North Carolina's business routes, none of which act as a spur.  I-40 Business through Winston-Salem and I-85 Business through Greensboro were downgraded because the main interstates bypass the cities and the old alignments no longer meet interstate grade.  Plans are now in motion to improve I-40 Business.

To say the state doesn't understand interstates is funny when they seem to be the most strict about it.

I laughed at the strict part as well. So are you saying anytime a new interstate alignment is built the old should be a business route? That seems silly. Business routes say in their name what they are there for... To find businesses. And while Arkansas business routes are screwy, at least they are used to find... What was it? Businesses.
iPhone

No, you are twisting my words.  The former interstate route sections like in Winston-Salem, NC and Spartanburg, SC would not qualify as interstate grade in today's standards... So they don't qualify anymore until upgrades are made.  Winston-Salem has plans starting next year or 2016 to rebuild the downtown section; maybe when its all upgraded, they may ask AASHTO/FHWA to brand that section into a 3di.  It's the same reason why US 52 is being improved upon for I-285 and I-74.

Also, those Business routes take travelers through the downtown areas just the same as any other business route, it's just on freeway grade is all.

[mrsman]

In my view, an interstate business route should have consistent national standards, just like the main interstates.

A business route should be primarily a surface street with businesses along it.  A very short expressway section is OK, as in S George Street in York, PA, since the primary route is still a local street.  The business route should guide traffic back to the interstate.

Substandard freeways and local streets that don't connect back to the interstates should not be an interstate business routes.  These routes can be numbered within the state highway system (as state or US highways if applicable) and can contain additional signage such as "To Interstate". 

It would be nice if it followed the US highway that the interstate replaced, but this isn't necessary.

[bugo]

Some business interstates are spurs, signed with "SPUR" right in the shield. I have no problem with these routes. Most business interstates are signed "LOOP" and they connect back to the interstate. There is an intersection in Missouri between Business Loop 44 and Business Spur 44.

[hbelkins]

I think this has been discussed elsewhere, but Business US 36 doesn't connect on both ends at Chillicothe, Mo.

[WNYroadgeek]

Ditto Business US 62 in Niagara Falls (its' western terminus is at NY 104).

[NE2]

I think this has been discussed elsewhere, but Business US 36 doesn't connect on both ends at Chillicothe, Mo.

The Goog (August-October 2013 photos) says you bip. It is clearly signed to use US 63, old US 36, and Mitchell Avenue.

Ditto Business US 62 in Niagara Falls (its' western terminus is at NY 104).

Who cares? US 62 ends at NY 104.


US 190 has an Arkansas-style spur in Slidell.

[hbelkins]

I think this has been discussed elsewhere, but Business US 36 doesn't connect on both ends at Chillicothe, Mo.

The Goog (August-October 2013 photos) says you bip. It is clearly signed to use US 63, old US 36, and Mitchell Avenue.

Then this has changed since 2011, when I was there and took this from southbound US 63:

PICT0002 by hbelkins, on Flickr

[NE2]

Then this has changed since 2011, when I was there and took this from southbound US 63:

Yes, it has. Your inclusion of MODOT fixing this in your 5ce-daily prayers paid off.

[english si]

surely, provided they mention its a spur, what's the issue - the whole point is to deliver you from road to a business and back to the road, so who cares if it's a spur or a loop: you are stopping anyway so you can turn around!

what matters is that you are able to get the gas/food/bed that you wanted and get back to the main route - all that matters is that its well signed and serves businesses useful to traffic.

[NE2]

surely, provided they mention its a spur, what's the issue - the whole point is to deliver you from road to a business and back to the road, so who cares if it's a spur or a loop: you are stopping anyway so you can turn around!

Except that they really are loops that don't have one portion signed (because it would be an overlap). So if you turn around and go back you're going out of the way. See US 64B in Parkin - I don't see any signage pointing along Highway 75 to return to US 64. Arguably, "US 64B" doesn't tell you it's a business route in the first place, but AASHTO does approve these as business routes.

[US71]

US 79B at Stuttgart, AR : appears to have connected at one time, but doesn't anymore.