Visit to the Maryland SHA's Office of Traffic and Safety

[cpzilliacus]

The Washington, D.C. Section of the Institute of Transportation Engineers (WDCITE) recently had its summer technical meeting at the State Highway Administration's Office of Traffic and Safety's complex in Hanover, Maryland, and I was able to attend (along with another AAROADS member) and take some pretty nice pictures of signs (including some amazing relics) and signals while there.

My FTP connection is misbehaving, so I posted everything to Facebook only (you do not need a Facebook account to see these):

Signals: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10203362112205661.1073741844.1596953667&type=1&l=eb91366890

Signs: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10203362161046882.1073741845.1596953667&type=1&l=061d501639

[1995hoo]

Those blank Interstate shields made me remember how prior to the Fort McHenry Tunnel opening, the BGSs on the southwest part of I-695 pointing the way to the then-stub-ended portion of I-95 hearing to downtown Baltimore bore unnumbered Interstate shields. I always assumed the idea was to avoid the risk of people seeing "I-95" and thinking it would take them all the way through and on to New York and New Jersey. I don't have any pictures, though, as this was 30+ years ago and even if I'd thought to have a camera ready, I was usually stuck in the back seat as a kid and so wouldn't have gotten any good pictures.

Thanks for posting those links. Some neat stuff there. I like seeing old signs because there was more variety.

[cpzilliacus]

Those blank Interstate shields made me remember how prior to the Fort McHenry Tunnel opening, the BGSs on the southwest part of I-695 pointing the way to the then-stub-ended portion of I-95 hearing to downtown Baltimore bore unnumbered Interstate shields. I always assumed the idea was to avoid the risk of people seeing "I-95" and thinking it would take them all the way through and on to New York and New Jersey. I don't have any pictures, though, as this was 30+ years ago and even if I'd thought to have a camera ready, I was usually stuck in the back seat as a kid and so wouldn't have gotten any good pictures.

I very well remember the "blank" shields pointing to I-95 North from the I-695 interchange on the southwest side of Baltimore.  At first, when the "between the Beltways" segment was opened, I-95 went only as far as Caton Avenue (near Joh Avenue), and no further (and the "control city" for I-95 was Caton Avenue). 

Then I-95 started being extended (from the north and the south) an interchange or two at a time, in the direction of the Fort McHenry Tunnel, which opened in 1985 to pretty great acclaim. 

Thanks for posting those links. Some neat stuff there. I like seeing old signs because there was more variety.

Glad you liked them.  My favorite was that I-70S shield, in good condition, too.

[Zeffy]

Thabks for these cool photos. I always wondered what it was like behind-the-scenes at a sign shop. Lots of old signs, and unfortunately new ones with improper use of Clearview.

[DaBigE]

Thabks for these cool photos. I always wondered what it was like behind-the-scenes at a sign shop. Lots of old signs, and unfortunately new ones with improper use of Clearview.

^Ditto. I only wish I could have seen WisDOT's sign shops before they just became warehouses for signs made by commercial fabricators.   That said, I did get to see the operations at TAPCO a couple years back...got to see everything but the computerized layout.

Maybe I can persuade our ITE chapter to get some tours at Madison or Milwaukee's sign shops

[jakeroot]

Tha[n]ks for these cool photos. I always wondered what it was like behind-the-scenes at a sign shop. Lots of old signs, and unfortunately new ones with improper use of Clearview.

I only see one error, and that's on the first and fifth signs where the cardinal directions are Clearview. Not sure if the "To" can be Clearview or not; that would be error number two if such is the case.

I'm fairly certain state DOTs will continue to use Clearview in the cardinal directions. States have become really good about not using Clearview in shields, but they've been extremely lax about the cardinal direction, so at this point, the FHWA might as well remove the restriction. Everyone is ignoring it anyways.

[Scott5114]

^ Unlikely to happen since FHWA has signaled its intent to ban Clearview altogether.

[hbelkins]

^ Unlikely to happen since FHWA has signaled its intent to ban Clearview altogether.

I thought they had just quit granting new approvals.

[jakeroot]

^ Unlikely to happen since FHWA has signaled its intent to ban Clearview altogether.

I thought they had just quit granting new approvals.

Before this gets any more OT, shall we move back to the Clearview Thread? Actually, it's not worth having another conversation about. We've already agreed to disagree.

[Scott5114]

In this case there is nothing to disagree over–they have quit granting new approvals because they are planning to revoke the Clearview approval at some undefined point in the future. The letter outright states this in black and white.

[jakeroot]

In this case there is nothing to disagree over–they have quit granting new approvals because they are planning to revoke the Clearview approval at some undefined point in the future. The letter outright states this in black and white.

I mean "agree to disagree" in the sense that, some people like Clearview, some people don't.

[hbelkins]

In this case there is nothing to disagree over–they have quit granting new approvals because they are planning to revoke the Clearview approval at some undefined point in the future. The letter outright states this in black and white.

I must have missed that part.

[1995hoo]

All those nice old signs cpzilliacus posted and the thread devolves into sniping about Clearview. 

[jakeroot]

All those nice old signs cpzilliacus posted and the thread devolves into sniping about Clearview. 

It was my fault. Apologies.

[TheOneKEA]

I hope MDOT SHA does open up some type of public exhibit to show off those wonderful old signs. That I-70S sign was the first time I'd ever seen one, in any form.

I'd love to know if the sign shop has any old signs for US 240, MD 46, or MD 149.

[Scott5114]

By sheer luck, I managed to see the I-70S in the wild at US-40 and Cooks Lane in Baltimore. I knew it existed, but not its location, so I wasn't expecting it and didn't get my own photo of it (there's one on the shield gallery). Sadly, it has since been replaced.

[cpzilliacus]

By sheer luck, I managed to see the I-70S in the wild at US-40 and Cooks Lane in Baltimore. I knew it existed, but not its location, so I wasn't expecting it and didn't get my own photo of it (there's one on the shield gallery). Sadly, it has since been replaced.

Probably I-70N, not I-70S, which did not run near Baltimore City.

[1995hoo]

By sheer luck, I managed to see the I-70S in the wild at US-40 and Cooks Lane in Baltimore. I knew it existed, but not its location, so I wasn't expecting it and didn't get my own photo of it (there's one on the shield gallery). Sadly, it has since been replaced.

Probably I-70N, not I-70S, which did not run near Baltimore City.

I think that is indeed what he meant since this is the only "in-the-field" I-70N or I-70S photo in the shield gallery (the I-70S shield shown looks similar to the one you posted and the caption says it's in a maintenance shop):

[Scott5114]

Ah, that's the one. Got them mixed up, sorry.

[cpzilliacus]

By sheer luck, I managed to see the I-70S in the wild at US-40 and Cooks Lane in Baltimore. I knew it existed, but not its location, so I wasn't expecting it and didn't get my own photo of it (there's one on the shield gallery). Sadly, it has since been replaced.

Probably I-70N, not I-70S, which did not run near Baltimore City.

I think that is indeed what he meant since this is the only "in-the-field" I-70N or I-70S photo in the shield gallery (the I-70S shield shown looks similar to the one you posted and the caption says it's in a maintenance shop):

These were almost certainly installed by Baltimore City, not the State Highway Administration.  There were never that many I-70N shields out there (because what was planned as I-70N west of the present-day I-70/U.S. 40 split in Marriottsville was signed as I-70 when the segments opened), but I do not recall any of them having the smaller N character like the image above.

[1995hoo]

At the risk of re-opening the Clearview sniping, I find the numbers in that 695 shield interesting. They look similar to, though not the same as, Clearview, and I find Clearview to have a "crisper" look to it. The numbers remind me a bit of some of the hand-painted "Topes" signs I used to see in Cozumel.

[on_wisconsin]

^Ditto. I only wish I could have seen WisDOT's sign shops before they just became warehouses for signs made by commercial fabricators.   That said, I did get to see the operations at TAPCO a couple years back...got to see everything but the computerized layout.

Maybe I can persuade our ITE chapter to get some tours at Madison or Milwaukee's sign shops

One wonders if Decker Supply behind Oscar Mayer would be willing to give tours? They even have a large outdoor sign assembly area:  http://goo.gl/maps/evCsb street view: http://goo.gl/maps/PbxRa

[cpzilliacus]

At the risk of re-opening the Clearview sniping, I find the numbers in that 695 shield interesting. They look similar to, though not the same as, Clearview, and I find Clearview to have a "crisper" look to it. The numbers remind me a bit of some of the hand-painted "Topes" signs I used to see in Cozumel.

That panel pre-dates Clearview by many, many, years. 

Baltimore City still has a fair number of hand-painted signs around.

[1995hoo]

At the risk of re-opening the Clearview sniping, I find the numbers in that 695 shield interesting. They look similar to, though not the same as, Clearview, and I find Clearview to have a "crisper" look to it. The numbers remind me a bit of some of the hand-painted "Topes" signs I used to see in Cozumel.

That panel pre-dates Clearview by many, many, years. 

....

No offense, but that comment warrants a DUH!!!!

I'm just young enough not to remember the I-70N/I-70S era at all, though I know OF it. Maybe I wasn't clear enough in making my point: I find it kind of amusing that the "6" and the "9" on the I-695 shield on that sign look somewhat similar to (before the hypertechnical types jump in, may I emphasize "somewhat similar to," not "the same as"!!!) the same characters in Clearview. It amuses me in part because the sign is so much older and in part because many people here (myself included) show nostalgia for old signs when there was more variety, yet many people here (myself not included) despise Clearview. In this particular case, the nostalgia and the despising wind up colliding with each other.

[cpzilliacus]

That panel pre-dates Clearview by many, many, years. 

....

No offense, but that comment warrants a DUH!!!!

Not a problem.

I'm just young enough not to remember the I-70N/I-70S era at all, though I know OF it. Maybe I wasn't clear enough in making my point: I find it kind of amusing that the "6" and the "9" on the I-695 shield on that sign look somewhat similar to (before the hypertechnical types jump in, may I emphasize "somewhat similar to," not "the same as"!!!) the same characters in Clearview. It amuses me in part because the sign is so much older and in part because many people here (myself included) show nostalgia for old signs when there was more variety, yet many people here (myself not included) despise Clearview. In this particular case, the nostalgia and the despising wind up colliding with each other.

I was in my teens (1973-1976) when I-70S became I-270 and I-70N became I-70 - though for many years there was a gap in I-70 between Frederick and Ijamsville, where the freeway suddenly turned in to a four lane arterial highway and the I-70 shields just disappeared - the only shields to be seen were U.S. 40.

There are still more than a few Montgomery County, Md. old-timers that refer to I-270 as "70S."

FWIW, I am indifferent about Clearview.