Should there be red and yellow flashing lights during non-peak hour times?

[kphoger]

So you're advocating that people go through a safety course before they're allowed to be a pedestrian after dark??

Yes.

Good thing anyone could still be be a daytime pedestrian without a training course–you know, when traffic counts are much higher.

I find it a bit funny for a sign asking drivers to pay attention to pedestrians, yet 2 of the 4 pedestrian crossings at that signal don't have crosswalks.

Perfectly appropriate, I think.  Drivers shouldn't only pay attention to pedestrians when/where there's a marked crosswalk.  They should pay attention to them everywhere and at all times.

It's something already taught to kids in kindergarten. Keep to the right when walking. look both ways before crossing the street. Wear bright colored clothing at night.

When kids get older, they are invincible and impress their friends, so they often and intentionally ignore basic safety rules. Then society tells them whatever they do is correct, so they jaywalk wearing dark clothing, and the big bad mean vehicle driver is at fault.

But, the basic correct way to see and be seen is something taught to them at a very young age.

Kids are taught to walk on the right.  And that's the normal flow on sidewalks.  Yet, on a street, one is supposed to walk on the left–which goes against what kids are taught in school.

Jaywalking isn't much of a legal concept anymore.  In the states whose laws I'm familiar with, it's only illegal to cross the street wherever you want if there's a signalized intersection or ped tunnel/bridge within a block of you.  Everywhere else, it's perfectly legal to cross–as long as you yield to cars when crossing outside of a crosswalk.  Dark clothing is a separate issue, because it's just as hard to see within a crosswalk as outside a crosswalk.

[CtrlAltDel]

It's something already taught to kids in kindergarten. Keep to the right when walking.

Kids are taught to walk on the right.

This isn't my experience or that of the children I know. Rather the opposite: You can walk wherever you want because those sorts of rules just don't apply to walking. If it were, then that thing where both people move out of the way in the same direction and then again in the same opposite direction wouldn't really happen. Now, if you're in a crowd, a division will usually arise between people walking one direction and those walking in the other, but that's just a spontaneous thing, and it's not uncommon go to the left when doing so.

[jakeroot]

I was only ever taught two things:

(1) -- stay right on escalators, unless in RHD countries;
(2) -- walk against traffic when there are no sidewalks.

Walking directions are, indeed, totally spontaneous. I walk four to six miles everyday, and I've never witnessed any consistency with regard to which direction people pass each other, besides just staying on the side you're already on.

[kphoger]

It's something already taught to kids in kindergarten. Keep to the right when walking.

Kids are taught to walk on the right.

This isn't my experience or that of the children I know. Rather the opposite: You can walk wherever you want because those sorts of rules just don't apply to walking. If it were, then that thing where both people move out of the way in the same direction and then again in the same opposite direction wouldn't really happen. Now, if you're in a crowd, a division will usually arise between people walking one direction and those walking in the other, but that's just a spontaneous thing, and it's not uncommon go to the left when doing so.

Actually, I should clarify that schoolchildren are taught to walk in a single file, on the right side, when walking down a hallway.  They're not taught to do so anywhere outside of hallways.

[ethanhopkin14]

It's something already taught to kids in kindergarten. Keep to the right when walking.

Kids are taught to walk on the right.

This isn't my experience or that of the children I know. Rather the opposite: You can walk wherever you want because those sorts of rules just don't apply to walking. If it were, then that thing where both people move out of the way in the same direction and then again in the same opposite direction wouldn't really happen. Now, if you're in a crowd, a division will usually arise between people walking one direction and those walking in the other, but that's just a spontaneous thing, and it's not uncommon go to the left when doing so.

Actually, I should clarify that schoolchildren are taught to walk in a single file, on the right side, when walking down a hallway.  They're not taught to do so anywhere outside of hallways.

This whole side topic is why I can't for the life of me understand why there are so many head-on collisions of freeways.  Everyone is going the same way.  Why are there people going the wrong way?  Then you're response is, "But ethanhopkin14, those people are very drunk that are going the wrong way."  I say, that's fair, but even in my most drunken state can remember the most basic motor skills.  Things that were taught to me at, lets say kindergarten age.  Single file line and keep to the right.  It's so ingrained in me now that I don't even think about it, I just do.  Living on a drive on the right country, all of our society is set up that way.  Everyone (mostly) keeps right on sidewalks, in malls, on running trails, walking down isles in plans, trains and busses.  We do it instinctively everywhere.  So why, when your judgement and awareness is compromised, but your fundamental skills are still kinda intact to people forget this.  I mean if you are still sober enough to get into a car, take out the key, put it into the ignition, turn the key to start the car, most likely put it in reverse, reverse the car, put it into drive then drive away from wherever you just got hammered, then you are not drunk enough to be on the wrong side of the road.  If you can do all those basic motor skills then you should have the keep right one nailed.  You learned that when you were 5, you learned the other stuff at 15.  I don't think it's a matter of them being too drunk, I think its a matter of them being too stupid in the first place.  Rant over.

[kphoger]

Aren't a lot of those accidents caused by elderly drivers, not drunk drivers?

[ethanhopkin14]

Aren't a lot of those accidents caused by elderly drivers, not drunk drivers?

The same concept applies.  Now they have even more time to have the keep right mentality beat into them. 

[kphoger]

No, what I mean is that they get overwhelmed or mixed up, and go the wrong way up an off-ramp.  It's really pretty easy to turn at the wrong spot.

[ethanhopkin14]

No, what I mean is that they get overwhelmed or mixed up, and go the wrong way up an off-ramp.  It's really pretty easy to turn at the wrong spot.

Yes, they do get confused, but they should be able to tell if they are on the right side or left side of the road.  They should be able to tell the on-ramp is veering to the right, not the left.  There are tons of dead giveaways that they are on the wrong side of the road before they get to highway speeds and kill someone. 

[kphoger]

No, what I mean is that they get overwhelmed or mixed up, and go the wrong way up an off-ramp.  It's really pretty easy to turn at the wrong spot.

Yes, they do get confused, but they should be able to tell if they are on the right side or left side of the road.  They should be able to tell the on-ramp is veering to the right, not the left.  There are tons of dead giveaways that they are on the wrong side of the road before they get to highway speeds and kill someone. 

Generally, yes.  But go on the wrong side of the center divider at a parclo on-ramp, and you end up on the wrong side of a freeway–with perhaps nothing but a KEEP RIGHT and/or DO NOT ENTER sign to warn you.  Heck, I've driven onto the wrong side of a divided suburban thoroughfare by accident before, and I'm not even the "confused" type.

[ethanhopkin14]

No, what I mean is that they get overwhelmed or mixed up, and go the wrong way up an off-ramp.  It's really pretty easy to turn at the wrong spot.

Yes, they do get confused, but they should be able to tell if they are on the right side or left side of the road.  They should be able to tell the on-ramp is veering to the right, not the left.  There are tons of dead giveaways that they are on the wrong side of the road before they get to highway speeds and kill someone. 

Generally, yes.  But go on the wrong side of the center divider at a parclo on-ramp, and you end up on the wrong side of a freeway–with perhaps nothing but a KEEP RIGHT and/or DO NOT ENTER sign to warn you.  Heck, I've driven onto the wrong side of a divided suburban thoroughfare by accident before, and I'm not even the "confused" type.

Yes, it can happen, but again, you didn't get so far down that you killed someone.  That's what blows my mind.  There are hints everywhere.  I read some of these stories and these people were driving the wrong way on a freeway for 5 miles.  Then saw a car coming at them and drove straight at it. 

[fwydriver405]

Going back to the original topic at hand...

To my understanding, MaineDOT's current policy is for traffic signals that are fully traffic actuated to run on colours 24/7. I don't believe this is a written rule and will likely be written in some guidance the MaineDOT is currently working on. I believe that Bangor has a significant number of pretimed signals, which are exempt from this policy.

Bangor's traffic signals flash from midnight to 6 am AFAIK. Not all intersections are like this, and at one point, the pedestrian signals flashed with the traffic signals (since been fixed)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1m10fuV4xI

My two questions about flash mode are:

1. Should all-arrow left turn signals flash the red arrow section or flash the steady yellow section? Most of the protected-only signals in Maine flash the red arrow while thru/right turning traffic has flashing circular yellow, but at different intersections, the FYA's seem to vary between flashing red arrow section at one intersection to flashing the steady yellow arrow section at another intersection.

2. On the (usually minor) road legs that will be transitioning from flashing red to steady red (i.e. transition from flash mode to colours), should there be a steady yellow clearance between flashing red to steady red before the main street gets a green/FYA coming from either flashing yellow or red? I thought MUTCD required something like this but I can't recall the exact section at the moment.

[kphoger]

No, what I mean is that they get overwhelmed or mixed up, and go the wrong way up an off-ramp.  It's really pretty easy to turn at the wrong spot.

Yes, they do get confused, but they should be able to tell if they are on the right side or left side of the road.  They should be able to tell the on-ramp is veering to the right, not the left.  There are tons of dead giveaways that they are on the wrong side of the road before they get to highway speeds and kill someone. 

Generally, yes.  But go on the wrong side of the center divider at a parclo on-ramp, and you end up on the wrong side of a freeway–with perhaps nothing but a KEEP RIGHT and/or DO NOT ENTER sign to warn you.  Heck, I've driven onto the wrong side of a divided suburban thoroughfare by accident before, and I'm not even the "confused" type.

Yes, it can happen, but again, you didn't get so far down that you killed someone.  That's what blows my mind.  There are hints everywhere.  I read some of these stories and these people were driving the wrong way on a freeway for 5 miles.  Then saw a car coming at them and drove straight at it. 

Only because, on a city street, there's generally an opportunity nearby to cross over to the correct side, and there's more traffic to clue you in.  Once you're on a freeway, even if you realize your error, your options are more limited.

[roadfro]

My two questions about flash mode are:

1. Should all-arrow left turn signals flash the red arrow section or flash the steady yellow section? Most of the protected-only signals in Maine flash the red arrow while thru/right turning traffic has flashing circular yellow, but at different intersections, the FYA's seem to vary between flashing red arrow section at one intersection to flashing the steady yellow arrow section at another intersection.

2. On the (usually minor) road legs that will be transitioning from flashing red to steady red (i.e. transition from flash mode to colours), should there be a steady yellow clearance between flashing red to steady red before the main street gets a green/FYA coming from either flashing yellow or red? I thought MUTCD required something like this but I can't recall the exact section at the moment.

2009 MUTCD Sections 4D.28 through 4D.31 govern the operation of traffic signals in flashing mode.

Regarding question #1: Section 4D.30 paragraphs 8 & 9 state as a standard that an all-arrow turn display can flash either the red or the yellow arrow. Specifically to the question, an all-arrow turn display that is normally operated in protected or permitted mode during stop-and-go operation can use a yellow arrow during flashing operation, if the adjacent through signals are also being flashed yellow and it is intended that a permissive turn not requiring a full stop can be provided during flashing mode.

Regarding question #2: Section 4D.31 does not specify that an approach receiving a flashing red requires a yellow clearance before going to steady red when transitioning out of flash mode. (When you think about it, the flashing red is a full stop command, so there is no need for a yellow clearance interval before displaying another full stop command with the steady red.) However, a flashing yellow indication during flash mode cannot go directly to a steady/flashing red indication in the transition to stop-and-go mode without first displaying a steady yellow clearance interval.

[jakeroot]

Regarding question #2: Section 4D.31 does not specify that an approach receiving a flashing red requires a yellow clearance before going to steady red when transitioning out of flash mode. (When you think about it, the flashing red is a full stop command, so there is no need for a yellow clearance interval before displaying another full stop command with the steady red.) However, a flashing yellow indication during flash mode cannot go directly to a steady/flashing red indication in the transition to stop-and-go mode without first displaying a steady yellow clearance interval.

For the record, that second half of your response (well, paraphrase from that MUTCD section) is exactly why emergency signals are usually three section with a flashing yellow bottom lens. They are required to have a solid yellow between the flashing yellow and solid red phase.

[Amtrakprod]

Actuated signals have largely negated the need for off-hours flashing yellow. "Green for ghosts" should be a thing of the past at this point.

I could see them being useful in downtown (timed) areas, but there are two reasons that I can still see for not doing it:

(1) timed lights could be actuated at night, assuming the technology existed to permit that;
(2) about three-quarters of pedestrian deaths are at night, and removing the ability to request a walk sign at night would be removing a safety barrier.

I think that's a good point. Maybe a signal should be timed to change the signal out of flash mode for a walk sign.


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[Amtrakprod]

But seriously. This existing traffic light is useless and needs to go.

No pedestrian signals either. Take out the signal put in an RRFB


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[tolbs17]

Some do it near the highway as well.

[MCRoads]

Near Ft Walton Beach, FL, the entrance to an elementary school off US 98 had traffic signals, but they were only RYG during school pickup/drop off times. The rest of the time, it was a flashing yellow on 98, and flashing yellow for the school driveway. Not sure if it is still like that, but I bet it is.

[tolbs17]

But seriously. This existing traffic light is useless and needs to go.

No pedestrian signals either. Take out the signal put in an RRFB


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Or make it a SUPERSTREET!

[Amtrakprod]

But seriously. This existing traffic light is useless and needs to go.

No pedestrian signals either. Take out the signal put in an RRFB


iPhone

Or make it a SUPERSTREET!

That would make it even more dangerous for pedestrians