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Unmarked Police and Photo Enforcement

Started by US 41, August 10, 2015, 11:00:30 AM

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Which should be illegal ways to ticket people driving on highways?

Both Unmarked Police and Photo Enforcement
18 (41.9%)
Photo Enforcement Only
16 (37.2%)
Unmarked Police Only
4 (9.3%)
Neither, they should both be legal ways to ticket drivers
5 (11.6%)

Total Members Voted: 43

cl94

Quote from: PHLBOS on August 19, 2015, 08:34:46 AM
Quote from: cl94 on August 18, 2015, 08:14:10 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on August 18, 2015, 07:14:22 PM
...Ford's first police-SUV was its Bronco during the late 60s/early 70s...

I can't see Ford Bronco without thinking of OJ Simpson
I believe Ford offered a Special Service Packaged Bronco to law enforcement agencies before OJ was doing Hertz commercials never mind the infamous low-speed chase of 1994.

Side bar: according to one Motor Trend article covering the then-new 1996 models, they commented that 1994-1995 Ford Bronco sales had an uptick.  They half-joikingly commented that many of those Broncos sold were white.

"OJ, people love you"
"Mooooooooan"
"OJ, don't shoot"
"Moooooooooooooooooan"
Please note: All posts represent my personal opinions and do not represent those of my employer or any of its partner agencies.


SP Cook

"Police package" cars and SUVs are, of course, 100% about cop egos.   Yeah, police cars need a few modifications, mostly related to electrical service load, and need industrial level interiors (which many fleet models will also need), but the idea that cops are going to have to out NASCAR somebody is rediculious.

BTW, the reason that Ford, and some others, do not put the model names on some of their police cars has to do with the EPA.  The EPA runs its gas mileage tests on multiple cars of each model, each equiped differently and then ads them together, both for the (idiotic, but that another story)  CAFE law and the stickers they put on the cars.  These are averages based on sales from the last year.  So many % of that model had AC, then you use the AC car's lower numbers so many times, and so on.  By entering a cop Taurus as an "Interceptor" its fuel inefficient make up does not pull down the regular Taurus' and, because it is unavailable to the public, is not a part of CAFE at all.


PHLBOS

#52
Quote from: SP Cook on August 19, 2015, 11:34:01 AM
"Police package" cars and SUVs are, of course, 100% about cop egos.   Yeah, police cars need a few modifications, mostly related to electrical service load, and need industrial level interiors (which many fleet models will also need), but the idea that cops are going to have to out NASCAR somebody is rediculious.
FWIW, read any of the Corporal Ed Sanow publications regarding Police vehicles and their history; such is where I obtained a fair amount of information regarding cop vehicles... particularly the histories.

There is indeed a distinction between a pursuit-rated Police-Package vs. a non-pursuit-rated Special Service Package and using the latter (along with standard retail models) for pursuit duties voids the vehicle warranties.  So its more of a warranty-usage related/legal issue rather than police ego.

Quote from: SP Cook on August 19, 2015, 11:34:01 AM
BTW, the reason that Ford, and some others, do not put the model names on some of their police cars has to do with the EPA.
Yes and no.  To my knowledge, only the current Ford Police-Packaged vehicles are stripped of their retail/non-police counterparts' nameplates.  Ford has done such since 1999 when the CVPI adopted its own honeycomb grille-style (vs. the chromed horizontal eggcrate grille on the other Crown Vic models).  A POLICE INTERCEPTOR badge on the rear trunklid is placed where the CROWN VICTORIA badge was on the retail and non-police fleet (taxicab packages for example) models.

OTOH, Ford's Special Service Packaged vehicles offered to law enforcement agencies (Explorer from 2010 and earlier) and the Expedition (to this day) are badged the same way as their retail bretheren.

To the best of my knowledge, all the other Police-Packaged vehicles from Chevy & Dodge have the same nameplate badging as their retail counterparts (Chevy's Caprice PPV has no retail counterpart).  I'm not 100% whether Chevy includes or does not include the PPV suffix in its badging of Police vehicles.

Ford's reasoning to mildly distinguish its CVPI (P71 Package) from its other Crown Vics is not completely known; sales tabulations of all Crown Vics & CVPIs are usually combined and treated as one entity.

When the newer Taurus and Explorer-based Interceptor models rolled out years later; Ford's distinctive badging for those respective models carried its established tradition but elevated such to a new level.  The Police Interceptor (Taurus) and Utility Interceptor (Explorer) are now treated separate from their retail bretheren.  The reasoning for doing such could be very well due to CAFE reasons as you mentioned; while CAFE existed back in 1999, the number (27.5 mpg for cars, 20.7 mpg for truck-based vehicles) wasn't as overbearing and it remained constant for many years. 

However, in the case of the Taurus, Ford's reasoning for not placing Taurus badges on its Police Vehicles point back to the issues many police agencies had with the previous Taurus Police Package when it was offered on its 1990-1995 models (the Taurus was a mid-size back then).  That Taurus Police model left a bad taste & bad memories for many law enforcement agencies.  The Baltimore Police Department practically made a scandal out of the first Taurus Police cars.

Quote from: SP Cook on August 19, 2015, 11:34:01 AM
By entering a cop Taurus as an "Interceptor" its fuel inefficient make up does not pull down the regular Taurus' and, because it is unavailable to the public, is not a part of CAFE at all.
The 2nd part of the above-quoted post is incorrect; all mass-produced vehicles including police vehicles are subject to the same CAFE standards as their retail counterparts.  If it weren't; Ford would've offered the 5.4L V8 as an option for its CVPI; many state police agencies practically begged Ford to offer such but no avail (such would've been hit with a gas-guzzler tax).  Additionally, when these vehicles are retired from police duties (barring the ones KIA); they are sold off as used vehicles to the general public.

One needs to remember that CAFE is fleetwide, so whether Ford treats its Taurus-based Police Interceptor as a completely separate model from its retail counterpart or not due to CAFE reasons ultimately becomes a moot point because sales of all models from Ford (or any other make for that matter) are factored into its CAFE figures for cars and trucks.  Note: trucks over a certain GVWT (it's either 8500 or 10,000 lbs.) are exempt from CAFE laws and do not have to post fuel economy figures on its window stickers.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

cpzilliacus

Quote from: SP Cook on August 19, 2015, 11:34:01 AM
"Police package" cars and SUVs are, of course, 100% about cop egos.   Yeah, police cars need a few modifications, mostly related to electrical service load, and need industrial level interiors (which many fleet models will also need), but the idea that cops are going to have to out NASCAR somebody is rediculious.

The electrical system, suspension and perhaps the engine cooling systems are the things that matter most.  As for the NASCAR angle, I agree with you when it comes to most cities, towns, townships and the like. But for law enforcement agencies in large and spread-out areas (state police and the like, plus rural sheriff offices), they may need to have that higher-power engine. 

Quote from: SP Cook on August 19, 2015, 11:34:01 AM
BTW, the reason that Ford, and some others, do not put the model names on some of their police cars has to do with the EPA.  The EPA runs its gas mileage tests on multiple cars of each model, each equiped differently and then ads them together, both for the (idiotic, but that another story)  CAFE law and the stickers they put on the cars.  These are averages based on sales from the last year.  So many % of that model had AC, then you use the AC car's lower numbers so many times, and so on.  By entering a cop Taurus as an "Interceptor" its fuel inefficient make up does not pull down the regular Taurus' and, because it is unavailable to the public, is not a part of CAFE at all.

Perhaps more-notoriously, there is the recent example of GM importing the Holden Caprice from Australia and re-badging it as the Chevrolet Caprice PPV and not selling it to consumers (though there has been talk of a Holden Caprice being sold as a modern-day Chevrolet SS).
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

PHLBOS

Quote from: cpzilliacus on August 19, 2015, 01:15:05 PMPerhaps more-notoriously, there is the recent example of GM importing the Holden Caprice from Australia and re-badging it as the Chevrolet Caprice PPV and not selling it to consumers (though there has been talk of a Holden Caprice being sold as a modern-day Chevrolet SS).
The Chevy SS model does indeed exist in the retail market today (I mentioned such in the NJ Turnpike thread a while back) but it is not the same exact car as the Caprice PPV.  The SS is basically a Pontiac G8 sedan with a Chevy front whereas the Caprice PPV is a longer car.

Rather than regurgitating the whole Holden/GM history regarding its Australian offerings in the U.S. and the whats and whys (the CAFE standards only played a part of the whole role here), and further veer this thread off course; one can just go to this thread on read up on such there.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

Avalanchez71

I dont' even need an unmarked car to run traffic.  I have people that pass me up not even paying attention whilst operating a marked unit.



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