LA Is Trying to Fix its Prostitution Problem by Banning Right Turns at Night

[mrsman]

https://www.thedrive.com/news/24324/la-is-trying-to-fix-its-prostitution-problem-by-banning-right-turns-at-night-and-it-might-be-working

Article from 2018 mentions Western Ave.  There have also been similar signs along parts of Sunset Blvd for a long time, with the same purpose.

[Ned Weasel]

https://www.thedrive.com/news/24324/la-is-trying-to-fix-its-prostitution-problem-by-banning-right-turns-at-night-and-it-might-be-working

Article from 2018 mentions Western Ave.  There have also been similar signs along parts of Sunset Blvd for a long time, with the same purpose.

How are drivers expected to make the equivalent movement at those times?  It's generally easier and safer to make substitute maneuvers for a left turn than for a right turn.

[mrsman]

https://www.thedrive.com/news/24324/la-is-trying-to-fix-its-prostitution-problem-by-banning-right-turns-at-night-and-it-might-be-working

Article from 2018 mentions Western Ave.  There have also been similar signs along parts of Sunset Blvd for a long time, with the same purpose.

How are drivers expected to make the equivalent movement at those times?  It's generally easier and safer to make substitute maneuvers for a left turn than for a right turn.

From a quick GSV view, it seems that the right turns are prohibited on all minor streets, but not major ones.  So you can make a left turn into a street from the other direction.  Or you can make the next right on a major street (Santa Monica, Melrose, Beverly, 3rd, 6th, Wilshire) and then make another right on the next block.

Seems like the prohibitions go all the way from SM to Wilshire.   Two whole miles, excepting the major streets.

[Plutonic Panda]

This is just a reason to profile people they suspect of engaging in this. I constantly ignore these no right turns even with a police officer behind I'll ignore the sign and turn and they don't do anything. Just another pointless initiative from LA. What's new.

[STLmapboy]

Hahahahaha good luck enforcing this. More unnecessary regulation from the capital of unnecessary regulation.

[Max Rockatansky]

Fresno has something similar on Kings Canyon Road but instead of right hand turns it is left hand turns which are banned in places on weekend nights.  Apparently it has something to do with prostitution and street racing.

[kendancy66]

I am not understanding the theory on this

[Concrete Bob]

The only rationale I can see for banning right turns is because a prostitutes may standi at a street corner, then a driver would have to come to a stop before making a right turn.  The period where the driver is stopped would afford a "buyer" and "seller" the opportunity to make a deal.  Personally, I think the rule is is a stupid, futile gesture.

[skluth]

I've seen the no right turns in several cities, but it's always been to prevent rush hour drivers from racing down side streets to avoid traffic. If the idea is to prohibit it to prevent prostitution, HAHAHAHAHA.

You can't read the sign, but here's an example. The sign prohibits right turns between specific hours, but the text is washed out by Google's algorithm. I remember others from when I lived in the St Louis area. I'll look and see if I can find a clear sign.

EDIT: Here's a clear example, further south on Laclede Station Road.

[briantroutman]

It's not too hard to understand:

The idea was to discourage people from picking up a prostitute and pulling into a residential neighborhood to transact business.

So in other words, people who pick up prostitutes aren't going to shoot up and have a backseat quickie on the main drag; they're going to turn down the nearest dark, quiet side street–and afterward, throw their used condoms, spent syringes, and other paraphernalia on the street in front of people's homes. But by banning turns, those nearby residential streets are no longer the quick and easy refuges they once were.

And also:

There's another layer here, too, according to Pelayo, who said the law gave police probable cause for a traffic stop, since plenty of people at first ignored the signs. He added that such violations are especially useful for regular patrol officers, who might not have the training or experience to spot the signs of a potential sex-work transaction

In my experience, it seems police officers always want to have a legal avenue to pull you over if they choose to do so. And since the turn prohibition is counterintuitive and potentially unknown to many motorists, they may casually or unknowingly violate it. What's the harm, right? And if you violate the law but look like you "belong"  in the neighborhood, are sober, alone in your car, aren't concealing anything, etc., my guess is that the officer would let you go without issuing a citation. But this at least gives the officer a free pass to pull you over in the first place...and notice the young junkie you're with, smell the liquor on your breath, notice the syringe peeking out from under the driver's seat, etc.

[kendancy66]

I now realize that they are banning right turns altogether.  I initially was thinking they were banning right turns ON RED (SIGNAL)

[Max Rockatansky]

So what happens if you need to actually make a right for a legitimate purpose?  Are you supposed to pull a U-turn and a left?

[MikieTimT]

[Small hand wave]
These aren't the streets you're looking for.
You can go about your business.
Move along.

[ran4sh]

So what happens if you need to actually make a right for a legitimate purpose?  Are you supposed to pull a U-turn and a left?

Apparently, yes.

[GaryV]

Remember, 2 wrongs don't make a right, but 3 lefts do.

[Plutonic Panda]

Remember, 2 wrongs don't make a right, but 3 lefts do.

at a three way intersection they would but not a four way if it's a square grid.

[STLmapboy]

I've seen the no right turns in several cities, but it's always been to prevent rush hour drivers from racing down side streets to avoid traffic. If the idea is to prohibit it to prevent prostitution, HAHAHAHAHA.

You can't read the sign, but here's an example. The sign prohibits right turns between specific hours, but the text is washed out by Google's algorithm. I remember others from when I lived in the St Louis area. I'll look and see if I can find a clear sign.

EDIT: Here's a clear example, further south on Laclede Station Road.

I drive by there all the time. Seen people making rights at the specified times on Sutherland (not Kenridge, but I don't see many people turning there). Have to wonder about enforcement; it would seem the cops have better things to do than pull over John Doe for turning right on a small Shrewsbury street at 8:36 am.

[STLmapboy]

The idea was to discourage people from picking up a prostitute and pulling into a residential neighborhood to transact business.

But heaven forbid I turn right into my neighborhood late at night to go home to my family. If you have a prostitution problem, LA, then maybe try to combat people whoring themselves out on the street by sending undercover officers to make arrests or doing other sting operations, rather than enacting inane policies that are not helpful or observed. Prostitution is illegal in Cali, maybe enforce the laws that are already on the books instead of making new ones.

[jakeroot]

The idea was to discourage people from picking up a prostitute and pulling into a residential neighborhood to transact business.

But heaven forbid I turn right into my neighborhood late at night to go home to my family. If you have a prostitution problem, LA, then maybe try to combat people whoring themselves out on the street by sending undercover officers to make arrests or doing other sting operations, rather than enacting inane policies that are not helpful or observed. Prostitution is illegal in Cali, maybe enforce the laws that are already on the books instead of making new ones.

You, and many others here, need to actually read the article.

The point was to give officers a reason to stop people. Someone by themselves clearly just going about their day, they won't ticket (they may not even stop you). But someone making that right turn, who looks like they might be with a prostitute, or perhaps someone who was previously stopped alone the main road and got "something" before turning right...they now have cause to stop that car, since picking someone up isn't illegal per se, but turning right at night against a sign that clearly prohibits it certainly would be. This allows them to look inside and consider what might be going on.

[mrsman]

The idea was to discourage people from picking up a prostitute and pulling into a residential neighborhood to transact business.

But heaven forbid I turn right into my neighborhood late at night to go home to my family. If you have a prostitution problem, LA, then maybe try to combat people whoring themselves out on the street by sending undercover officers to make arrests or doing other sting operations, rather than enacting inane policies that are not helpful or observed. Prostitution is illegal in Cali, maybe enforce the laws that are already on the books instead of making new ones.

You, and many others here, need to actually read the article.

The point was to give officers a reason to stop people. Someone by themselves clearly just going about their day, they won't ticket (they may not even stop you). But someone making that right turn, who looks like they might be with a prostitute, or perhaps someone who was previously stopped alone the main road and got "something" before turning right...they now have cause to stop that car, since picking someone up isn't illegal per se, but turning right at night against a sign that clearly prohibits it certainly would be. This allows them to look inside and consider what might be going on.

Yes, that's the idea.  Part of it has to do with the local residents (who have the most reason to legitimately turn onto a local street) are aware of the restriction and would be able to bypass it legally, knowing the layout of the area.  A "perp" would simply pick up someone and make the first quick right to transact their business away from watchful eyes along Western.  The very right turn itself will be the suspicious act that could trigger police to investigate further (and provide probable cause for stopping).

I now realize that they are banning right turns altogether.  I initially was thinking they were banning right turns ON RED (SIGNAL)

Another trap for the "perp" unfamiliar with the street layout.  Stopping on red and waiting for green to turn right would make the car even more conspicuous.

I've seen the no right turns in several cities, but it's always been to prevent rush hour drivers from racing down side streets to avoid traffic. If the idea is to prohibit it to prevent prostitution, HAHAHAHAHA.

L.A. has plenty of rush hour turn restrictions that are similar to what you describe in St. Louis, but the ones along Western Ave cover the overnight hours, not rush hours.  The signs say no right turn, 12AM to 7AM nightly.  [some signs have slightly different hours, 11PM to 6AM]

So what happens if you need to actually make a right for a legitimate purpose?  Are you supposed to pull a U-turn and a left?

From a quick GSV view, it seems that the right turns are prohibited on all minor streets, but not major ones.  So you can make a left turn into a street from the other direction.  Or you can make the next right on a major street (Santa Monica, Melrose, Beverly, 3rd, 6th, Wilshire) and then make another right on the next block.

Seems like the prohibitions go all the way from SM to Wilshire.   Two whole miles, excepting the major streets.

The neighborhood is largely a grid, so going around the block is relatively easy to do.  And, as said earlier, the residents are familiar with this, so they can adjust their route to avoid the prohibited right turn fairly easily.  The "perp" who is nervous and wants to complete his transaction quickly would likely make the quick right on a side street.

The article references Sunset Blvd.  There, the turn restrictions affect both left and right turns.  No turns 11PM to 6 AM nightly, along Sunset, for half a mile between Sierra Bonita (one block west of Gardner) and Orange Grove (one block east of Fairfax). 

[Max Rockatansky]

The idea was to discourage people from picking up a prostitute and pulling into a residential neighborhood to transact business.

But heaven forbid I turn right into my neighborhood late at night to go home to my family. If you have a prostitution problem, LA, then maybe try to combat people whoring themselves out on the street by sending undercover officers to make arrests or doing other sting operations, rather than enacting inane policies that are not helpful or observed. Prostitution is illegal in Cali, maybe enforce the laws that are already on the books instead of making new ones.

You, and many others here, need to actually read the article.

The point was to give officers a reason to stop people. Someone by themselves clearly just going about their day, they won't ticket (they may not even stop you). But someone making that right turn, who looks like they might be with a prostitute, or perhaps someone who was previously stopped alone the main road and got "something" before turning right...they now have cause to stop that car, since picking someone up isn't illegal per se, but turning right at night against a sign that clearly prohibits it certainly would be. This allows them to look inside and consider what might be going on.

Yes, a pretext stop.  That wasn't lost on me what the intent was.  That said, if you're and an officer and believe someone is up to something then it isn't too difficult to find a "minor"  traffic infraction in the traffic manual.  Anything in the passenger compartment would fall under plain view doctrine, of including "a prostitute."    Of course someone would still have to admit that there was prostitution transaction afoot regardless of how obvious it may appear to be.

[Scott5114]

Hahahahaha good luck enforcing this. More unnecessary regulation from the capital of unnecessary regulation.

What does this have to do with Ada, Oklahoma?