Minnesota signing practices

[froggie]

except that MnDOT uses full-width ruled lines to separate the arrows and cardinal direction words from the shield.

When you say full-width, are you referring to the same width as the arrow and directional word, or the full width of the sign?

The former is MnDOT's standard, as shown in their Guide Sign Design Manual (page 67, or 4-29), and a couple examples in the field.

[J N Winkler]

Erm.  Actually, I meant the latter, as shown in various plan sheets from the 1960's onward (which, it seems, reflect a standard that has since changed).

Edit:  I just checked the sign design sheets for SP 2782-161 (as a typical specimen of a 1960's signing job) and it shows horizontal ruled lines running the width of the cardinal direction word and arrow, not the full width of the sign.  I now think I misremembered, and "stretched" the horizontal ruled lines to the full width of the sign panel, but if I find any examples to that general design in other signing projects, I will post again.

[froggie]

I want to say I recall seeing the latter (full width of the sign) over the years, but I haven't found any examples within my photo collection yet.

[agentsteel53]

I cannot find any full-width in my photo collection either, just this style that is as wide as the cardinal direction and arrow. 

www.aaroads.com/shields/show.php?image=MN19700901

[froggie]

The same thing I noted in my two examples earlier...

It's possible the full-width examples I'm thinking of were from back during my childhood...well before I started taking photos.  The memory's a bit weird in those ways...

[froggie]

Officially, MnDOT uses 2-digit sized shields for 3-digit state and US routes for independent markers.  I've known of two "counterexamples"...on MN 210 near Fergus Falls (along the multiplex with I-94/US 59) about 10 years ago...and, until it was turned back to Anoka County last year, on MN 242 in Coon Rapids.  But given MnDOT's standard, these two examples would by the book be "error shields".

Forgot earlier where else I'd seen these:  MN 336.

[J N Winkler]

Minnesota doesn't have a standard business-route version of the state route marker with "MINNESOTA" replaced by "BUSINESS," does it?  So any instance of such a route marker would be pretty damn unusual, wouldn't it?

[froggie]

They do.  M1-5AB for independent markers, and M1-5bb for guide signs.

Indeed, pretty unusual, especially since there's only one such route on the state highway system (BUSINESS 371 in Brainerd).  Though I'm aware of two other locally-designated routes that are signed...BUSINESS 23 in Willmar (which also uses NON-standard signage) and BUSINESS 60 in St. James.

[J N Winkler]

The Business SR 371 signs in Brainerd were installed by contract in 2001 (SP 8823-23)--which in itself is highly unusual because MnDOT hardly ever contracts out small-sign work except for railroad crossings.  (I think MnDOT does nearly all of its small-sign work in-house, possibly through sign shops at district level.)

Are the Brainerd signs green and white as called for in the specs you linked to, or blue and gold?  Notwithstanding the age of the Brainerd signs, it seems very recent that the business shields have become standard--the independent-mount version has an approval date of 2009-04-01 while the guide-sign versions have an approval date of 2009-01-01.  (The plans for SP 8823-23 really should have specified the colors and design details for the business shield.  Instead, there is a note:  "Contact D3 office for sign design.")

[agentsteel53]

I saw green US-14 shields with a BUSINESS banner inside the shield around 2006 in Dodge.

[agentsteel53]

Are the Brainerd signs green and white as called for in the specs you linked to, or blue and gold?

they are green and white.  I don't have a photo on the shield gallery but I've seen them somewhere else on the internet.  Can't find the link, though.

[froggie]

I have some photos of BUSINESS 371.

Regarding the photo Jake just posted, MnDOT also has specs for BUSINESS US routes, M1-4ab for guide sign overlays, and M1-4B for independent markers.  I've heard of that BUSINESS US 14 in Dodge Center, but haven't seen it personally...it's also not "official".  The only official one is BUSINESS US 2 in East Grand Forks, which has been around for several decades, but I'm not sure how it's signed.  There's a signed BUSINESS US 71 in Willmar (which uses at least 3 different varieties of route shield), but that's a local designation and not on the state highway system.

[agentsteel53]

I don't remember there being anything distinctive about business US 2 in East Grand Forks - I think it was just standard black and white US-2 shields with a separate business banner.

do you have photos of the 71 business loop in Willmar?  I've never been there.