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[agentsteel53]

I'm confused about something. Are you guys saying that Caltrans' (white on dark-green) overhead signs from the 1960's did not originally have reflector-buttons on the lettering and borders? That the buttons were retrofitted later? Was the original lettering non-reflective? Or did they use reflective lettering material? That would be very surprising to me as a New Yorker, because NYSDOT's signs had buttons starting in about 1960 and continuing thru 1984 installations. I remember being very impressed with that new modern signing as a kid.  

that is correct.  Cal Division of Highways first started making overhead guide signs in the 1940s, and they were completely non-reflective.  lighting was provided by active illumination: overhead bulbs.  these started out as white signs with black legend, before being changed to black with white legend around 1947. 



that is an early '50s gantry.  Those black bars above the signs are the housing for the lights.

around 1956, the lighting was switched to underneath, as seen here:



the reason for this was because it was easier to maintain.  Imagine standing on that narrow catwalk, traffic zooming below you - having to reach over your head was just too problematic, while kneeling down was a lot better.

there are still some - very few! - overlit gantries left in the LA area, but the vast majority are now underlit or have no lighting at all.

In 1955, a few experiments were done with green signage (including a 1956 experiment with retroreflective - foreground and background! - signage on the US-40 Roseville Bypass) but the official standards for green signs started appearing in 1958, to comply with the 1957 AASHO interstate specification.  By 1962 the transition was complete.  I'm not sure what order they did things in exactly, between overhead and side-of-the-road installs of various flavors, but I believe all overhead signage kept all the layout standards, and was switched in color, in May '59.  I do not have a good color photo of a decisively green sign on the internet, but I must note I have a photo somewhere of an older black sign with greenout, resulting in a two-tone look!

in 1973, due to the energy crisis, it was decided that the active lighting was too expensive, so that is when the hordes of sign workers were sent up with a bucket of buttons and a barrel of glue... about 99% of the signs were successfully retrofitted in the next several years, but isolated examples survive of signs that were somehow forgotten. 



on this 1960 sign, you can see that the original US-60 shield was changed to state route 60 in 1965 or so, and only that received the button retrofitting.

coincidentally in 1973, California switched away from porcelain to all button copy on the overhead signs.  They had experimented with this off and on in prior years - I know of a 1961 button copy gantry, for example, on I-8. 

(And side-of-the-road installs were experimented with everything, including the aforementioned Roseville experiment, which also included button copy signs in 1956.  The last side-of-the-road porcelain signs went up in 1963 - after that was all button copy or retroreflective tape.  This was because those signs had a shorter design lifespan and 30-year porcelain was excessively expensive.) 

the main reason for the switch in overheads away from porcelain as well was because Cameo could never quite get the 1971 federal standard green correct.  So it made sense to go to the same contractors who made the side-of-the-road installations to do the overhead signs as well.  As an added bonus, the reflectorized signs needed no active lighting. 

so, by 1973, California was out of the porcelain racket, and all new sign installations were reflectorized (instead of actively lit) and all old signs were being retrofitted so that the lights could be turned off.  Recently, the lights have been turned on again, adding an extra bit of illumination to retrofitted-porcelain and button copy signs, of which hundreds upon hundreds survive in the state.

[SignBridge]

V-e-r-y   i-n-t-e-r-e-s-t-i-n-g!   Thank-you agentsteel53 for that detailed summary. You must be the Los Angeles area sign-historian like I am in the NYC area. (chuckle!) I like those old white-on-black overhead signs.

BTW, what road was the Ramona Fwy? I've never seen that on any map. Is is called something else now? I'm a little lost re: those old route numbers too. The 101 obviously survives. Was US-99 the current I-5? And was US-60-70 the current I-10? I seem to remember other photos somewhere (from the 1960's) showing those routes concurrently signed.

[The High Plains Traveler]

V-e-r-y   i-n-t-e-r-e-s-t-i-n-g!   Thank-you agentsteel53 for that detailed summary. You must be the Los Angeles area sign-historian like I am in the NYC area. (chuckle!) I like those old white-on-black overhead signs.

BTW, what road was the Ramona Fwy? I've never seen that on any map. Is is called something else now? I'm a little lost re: those old route numbers too. The 101 obviously survives. Was US-99 the current I-5? And was US-60-70 the current I-10? I seem to remember other photos somewhere (from the 1960's) showing those routes concurrently signed.

That is the San Bernardino Freeway (I-10). Ramona Blvd. was built as a route into downtown L.A. in the 1930s with some grade separations. That evolved into the current freeway.

[roadfro]

I don't remember the Mass Pike having porcelain signs.  Anyone have any pictures?  I'll bet they said something like "CA-68" on the back.  There are some signs in Reno which say CA-78!

With the current reconstruction of I-80 through downtown Reno, I don't think any of those old porcelain signs are left at this point.  

The one on southbound US 395 north of Reno might be the last porcelain sign left in the state...

[J N Winkler]

I'm confused about something. Are you guys saying that Caltrans' (white on dark-green) overhead signs from the 1960's did not originally have reflector-buttons on the lettering and borders? That the buttons were retrofitted later? Was the original lettering non-reflective? Or did they use reflective lettering material? That would be very surprising to me as a New Yorker, because NYSDOT's signs had buttons starting in about 1960 and continuing thru 1984 installations. I remember being very impressed with that new modern signing as a kid.

Yes, that is precisely the case.  Caltrans porcelain enamel overhead guide signs were originally not retroreflectorized at all--instead, they were externally lit.  (Ground-mounted signs had button reflectorization, initially by button reflectors which were secured to a back plate and were visible through circular slots in an enamelled front plate attached to the back plate, and later through the use of AGA letters.)  In the 1970's, Caltrans systematically retrofitted most of these signs with epoxied-on button reflectors in order to allow the lights to be turned off on signs that were not action signs, to save electricity.  At that time I believe the MUTCD did not yet require that signs should be illuminated or retroreflectorized to show the same colors by night as by day, which is part of the reason state DOTs and other agencies have now abandoned button copy.

Edit:  I didn't click to the second page of posts before composing the above, and so didn't see Jake's much more detailed (and extensively illustrated) summary.  I'm leaving this post in though since it has some additional information.