PA Turnpike All-Electronic Interchanges

[PHLBOS]

Some of my co-workers were at the dedication ceremony.  One of the photos on my company's Facebook page shows a photo of one BGS gantry w/signs featuring NO Clearview font for the control cities.  This BGS gantry preceeds the earlier one I mentioned/commented on.  Never mind, a close-up (from the CBS-3 video) of that BGS does indeed show Clearview font for the control cities.

[roadman]

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/video/8056976-corbett-opens-turnpike-interchange-outside-philly/

Here's the interchange story from KYW-TV (CBS) channel 3 of Philadelphia. Gotta get used to the BPS (big PURPLE sign).

Note how the BPS sign is non-compliant.  Only the EZ-Pass banner should be purple, the rest should be green.

[Compulov]

Note how the BPS sign is non-compliant.  Only the EZ-Pass banner should be purple, the rest should be green.

This is SOP for the PTC's EZ-Pass only interchanges. While conformity would be nice, I do think that the BPS makes it clear as day that this exit is different, and it might get more people to pay attention to the fact that they shouldn't exit if they don't have EZ-Pass. I do think that once they go all electronic, that they can probably do away with the BPS, since then every exit is (or should be) electronic.

[roadman]

Note how the BPS sign is non-compliant.  Only the EZ-Pass banner should be purple, the rest should be green.

This is SOP for the PTC's EZ-Pass only interchanges. While conformity would be nice, I do think that the BPS makes it clear as day that this exit is different, and it might get more people to pay attention to the fact that they shouldn't exit if they don't have EZ-Pass. I do think that once they go all electronic, that they can probably do away with the BPS, since then every exit is (or should be) electronic.

Point taken.  However, I would argue that having a purple "EZ-Pass ONLY" banner on a green sign would be more effective than an all-purple one, given the contrast between the purple and green backgrounds.  And, IMO, if a person is so inattentive that they don't heed the EZ-Pass Only banner, I seriously doubt an all purple sign is going to deter them from entering.  Plus, defense lawyers love non-compliant traffic controls - even if the presnce of the device had nothing to do with a crash.  And the last thing society needs is to give lawyers even more ways for their clients to evade responsibility for their actions.

[jeffandnicole]

Note how the BPS sign is non-compliant.  Only the EZ-Pass banner should be purple, the rest should be green.

This is SOP for the PTC's EZ-Pass only interchanges. While conformity would be nice, I do think that the BPS makes it clear as day that this exit is different, and it might get more people to pay attention to the fact that they shouldn't exit if they don't have EZ-Pass. I do think that once they go all electronic, that they can probably do away with the BPS, since then every exit is (or should be) electronic.

Point taken.  However, I would argue that having a purple "EZ-Pass ONLY" banner on a green sign would be more effective than an all-purple one, given the contrast between the purple and green backgrounds.  And, IMO, if a person is so inattentive that they don't heed the EZ-Pass Only banner, I seriously doubt an all purple sign is going to deter them from entering.  Plus, defense lawyers love non-compliant traffic controls - even if the presnce of the device had nothing to do with a crash.  And the last thing society needs is to give lawyers even more ways for their clients to evade responsibility for their actions.

One of my memories from working Int. 1 on the NJ Turnpike:  A motorist pulls into the EZ Pass Only Lane.  Yells over to me in the next toll booth "What does EZ Pass Only mean"?  Some of them actually see the sign...and can't comprehend what 'Only' could mean.

Same person probably enters the "10 items or less only" line at the supermarket with 37 items, then complains at how tiny the shelf is to put their products on for the cashier.

[PHLBOS]

One of my memories from working Int. 1 on the NJ Turnpike:  A motorist pulls into the EZ Pass Only Lane.  Yells over to me in the next toll booth "What does EZ Pass Only mean"?  Some of them actually see the sign...and can't comprehend what 'Only' could mean.

Same person probably enters the "10 items or less only" line at the supermarket with 37 items, then complains at how tiny the shelf is to put their products on for the cashier.

Sadly, there's still no cure for stupid.

[roadman]

One of my memories from working Int. 1 on the NJ Turnpike:  A motorist pulls into the EZ Pass Only Lane.  Yells over to me in the next toll booth "What does EZ Pass Only mean"?  Some of them actually see the sign...and can't comprehend what 'Only' could mean.

Same person probably enters the "10 items or less only" line at the supermarket with 37 items, then complains at how tiny the shelf is to put their products on for the cashier.

Over the years, on more than one ocassion in the local media, I've actually seen and heard "But people don't know what the "Left Turn Yield On (green ball)" sign means" as an argument to change permissive turns to dedicated left turn lanes at some local intersections.

[1995hoo]

One of my memories from working Int. 1 on the NJ Turnpike:  A motorist pulls into the EZ Pass Only Lane.  Yells over to me in the next toll booth "What does EZ Pass Only mean"?  Some of them actually see the sign...and can't comprehend what 'Only' could mean.

Same person probably enters the "10 items or less only" line at the supermarket with 37 items, then complains at how tiny the shelf is to put their products on for the cashier.

Over the years, on more than one ocassion in the local media, I've actually seen and heard "But people don't know what the "Left Turn Yield On (green ball)" sign means" as an argument to change permissive turns to dedicated left turn lanes at some local intersections.

More and more I think our society is trending towards the idea that people think they're entitled to have their hands held for every last thing. There was a letter in yesterday's Washington Post complaining about the new all-electronic high-occupancy/toll lanes on I-495 because, quote, "Local drivers have lamented that they have no clue where to enter or exit the lanes. Because their Global Positioning System devices still fail to recognize the new configuration, how will they find where they need to get to?" I mean, give me a friggin' break!!!! People have also complained that the multitude of signs bearing the E-ZPass logo do not use the word "TOLL" anywhere (presumably because the MUTCD requires the logo rather than the word "TOLL"). I find it really hard to fathom that anyone living anywhere on the East Coast from Virginia north to the Canadian border is unfamiliar with what E-ZPass is.

But I've always felt that New Jersey's signs for the toll plazas are exceptionally clear in this respect. The only significant improvement might be if there were some sort of symbol that were universally understood to denote "CASH," so that then they could put that symbol with the international "PROHIBITED" sign (the red circle-and-slash symbol) to underscore what the E-ZPass Only lanes are.

I was at the Washington Capitals' practice facility one day back in 2010 to pick up some tickets from their office and I bumped into a couple of players as I was getting into my car. It was a nice day and I had driven my 1988 RX-7 with the top down and it was parked next to Ovechkin's Mercedes. When I came out they were looking at the car laughing at the juxtaposition of this somewhat beat-up old Mazda next to his matte black SL65 AMG Black Series. But they liked the rotary engine's exhaust note. We briefly talked about cars and one of the Russians complained about how there are so many signs in this country; he said that American drivers seem to have no clue what to do unless they have constant signs telling them exactly what they can and cannot do. I think he has a valid point. There's a woman in my neighborhood who parks her car so that it's kind of halfway around the corner where two streets meet. Why? Because there isn't a sign saying that she can't (never mind that Virginia, just like pretty much every other state, prohibits parking within a certain number of feet of an intersection regardless of whether there's a sign).

[roadman]

More and more I think our society is trending towards the idea that people think they're entitled to have their hands held for every last thing. There was a letter in yesterday's Washington Post complaining about the new all-electronic high-occupancy/toll lanes on I-495 because, quote, "Local drivers have lamented that they have no clue where to enter or exit the lanes.

What you describe is commonly referred to as "the dumbing down of America", and it's not a new trend.  I first flagged that as a problem back in the 1980s when folks started griping about not being able to program their video recorders (hint - RTFM).

As for the Virginia I-495 HOT lanes, my principal gripe is with whomever designed the approach signing.  While the "no clue" comment of that Post reader is not entirely accurate, the signing could be clearer.  Combining the CMS panels giving the toll rates with the "ONLY (with arrows) " panels informing drivers that if you stay in the left lanes, you're committed to the HOT facility is, IMO, a classic case of poor sign design (and is also another case where a designer decided to ignore the MUTCD).

The toll rate information is so complex to read at speed- plus it's also illuminated - that I can see how easy it would be for some drivers to not realize they have to change lanes approaching the area until the actual lane "split".  Add in the fact that the "Here's the entrance" sign is located in the middle of a curve, and just beyond the start of the separator pylons, and it's no wonder VDOT's been having problems with last minute lane changes.

[Interstatefan78]

 Looks like I-476 should need its own Electronic interchange and its PA-903 Highway to Adventure and the link is http://www.paturnpike.com/constructionprojects/Route_903_Slip_Ramp/home.html, and this will help the drivers from the Leigh Valley area and the Poconos to experience driving on to I-476 (Pa Turnpike Northeast extension) without paying tickets. A benfit of this project is to allow the PA turnpike drvers from Leigh, Northampton counties, Pa and Warren County, NJ to experiment electronic tolls just like turnpike drivers in Bucks, and Montgomery counties who use all electronic exits to access their workplace. 

[cpzilliacus]

The toll rate information is so complex to read at speed- plus it's also illuminated - that I can see how easy it would be for some drivers to not realize they have to change lanes approaching the area until the actual lane "split".  Add in the fact that the "Here's the entrance" sign is located in the middle of a curve, and just beyond the start of the separator pylons, and it's no wonder VDOT's been having problems with last minute lane changes.

VDOT has revised the pavement markings on the Inner Loop approach to the HOV/Toll lanes to make it more clear to drivers what is going on, though there are some that still are not going to figure it out under any circumstances.

However, I think it was a mistake to have the separator pylons begin on a curve, especially when there a long straight stretch approaching the curved segment.