Guide Signs with arrows verses Next Right or 1/2 Mile

[roadman65]

I always remembered traveling in PA on its freeways as well as I-95 through SC and seeing the at exit guide signs with either "NEXT RIGHT' or "RIGHT LANE" but no arrows whatsoever except on newer signs.

I also noticed on I-25 in Colorado that there were also missing exit guide signs for unnumbered roads back in 01 when I transited CO completely from US 84 in NM to US 18 in WY.  Instead CO just had 1/2 mile guides alone for named roads at most of the original US 85 intersections that were converted to RIRO set ups.

I grew up in NJ that used both NEXT RIGHT and another sign at diverge point of the ramps.  So NJ was actually using one extra sign that really was not needed, although personally I found helpful.

Anyway, last time I was in NJ, I saw on I-78 that the NEXT RIGHT signs now read either 1/4 mile or 1/2 mile, and also that PA and SC got rid of the NEXT RIGHT in favor of the arrow guide types.  I have no idea if Colorado still has one sign only unnumbered road exit ramps, as I have not been back in 12 years.  I was wondering if the Feds put pressure on the states to feature arrows that all the NEXT RIGHTS vanished including along I-95 in Florida that was using them as practice and I believe the one on NB I-95 at FL 50 in Titusville is still up until the current widening places new assemblies at that interchange?

Also, to know what is everyone's thought on guide signs in this matter.  Is NEXT RIGHT better than arrows, or what?

[kphoger]

In general, I prefer arrows, but only in close proximity to the actual exit.  México is terrible about this:  putting an arrow waaay before the actual exit.  Here is an example of one nearly a kilometer in advance; the highway hasn't even divided in preparation for the interchange yet at this point.  It gets really frustrating when you're wondering if it's worth it to pass a slow truck.

[The High Plains Traveler]

I also noticed on I-25 in Colorado that there were also missing exit guide signs for unnumbered roads back in 01 when I transited CO completely from US 84 in NM to US 18 in WY.  Instead CO just had 1/2 mile guides alone for named roads at most of the original US 85 intersections that were converted to RIRO set ups.

Examples please? The RIRO exits I'm familiar with along I-25 in southern Colorado are just ranch road-type exits. None that I'm aware of exit to actual old U.S. 85, where a recognizable fragment of this might remain. I-25 in the Pueblo-Colorado Springs segment does have some frontage road that I believe is not actually not old U.S. 85, but rather frontage road constructed simultaneously with the interstate. Some of the original I-25 bridges, now mostly if not all replaced, were original U.S. 85-87 bridges.

[jeffandnicole]

I always remembered traveling in PA on its freeways as well as I-95 through SC and seeing the at exit guide signs with either "NEXT RIGHT' or "RIGHT LANE" but no arrows whatsoever except on newer signs.

I also noticed on I-25 in Colorado that there were also missing exit guide signs for unnumbered roads back in 01 when I transited CO completely from US 84 in NM to US 18 in WY.  Instead CO just had 1/2 mile guides alone for named roads at most of the original US 85 intersections that were converted to RIRO set ups.

I grew up in NJ that used both NEXT RIGHT and another sign at diverge point of the ramps.  So NJ was actually using one extra sign that really was not needed, although personally I found helpful.

Anyway, last time I was in NJ, I saw on I-78 that the NEXT RIGHT signs now read either 1/4 mile or 1/2 mile, and also that PA and SC got rid of the NEXT RIGHT in favor of the arrow guide types.  I have no idea if Colorado still has one sign only unnumbered road exit ramps, as I have not been back in 12 years.  I was wondering if the Feds put pressure on the states to feature arrows that all the NEXT RIGHTS vanished including along I-95 in Florida that was using them as practice and I believe the one on NB I-95 at FL 50 in Titusville is still up until the current widening places new assemblies at that interchange?

Also, to know what is everyone's thought on guide signs in this matter.  Is NEXT RIGHT better than arrows, or what?

Yep - the standard BGS's one will find in NJ are "1 Mile Ahead", "1/4 Mile Ahead" and the sign at the exit with the arrow.  Obviously, variations exist.

There are a few "Next Right" signs left; mostly older signs, and almost always about 1/4 mile before the exit.  They will probably be updated the next time the state does a mass sign replacement.

The GSP in NJ has a few Exit signs with the arrow well before the actual exit or decel lane. Especially at night they can be confusing as one is expecting the exit ramp, only to keep driving a bit before it finally appears.

[PHLBOS]

At cloverleaf interchanges, MA used to include both a downward arrow and a distance for the 2nd upcoming exit ramp of said-cloverleaf.  Today, it's typically one or the other.

[roadman]

At cloverleaf interchanges, MA used to include both a downward arrow and a distance for the 2nd upcoming exit ramp of said-cloverleaf.  Today, it's typically one or the other.

With the exception of "Exit Only" lanes, since the early 1990s, Massachusetts practice has been to omit the down arrow from overhead advance signs for the "second" cloverleaf exit.  Besides being consistent with MUTCD guidance, MassHighway apparently received complaints from drivers regarding locations where, owing to fabrication or installation requirements, the down arrow didn't line up over the correct lane.  As an example, when the BGS in Reading/Woburn on I-95 (128) south for I-93 south was replaced in 1993, the down arrow ended up over the left center lane instead of the right lane.  About six months after the BGS was installed, the arrow was removed, leaving a noticeable gap between "1/4" and "MILE" (note that the panels and support at this location were recently replaced as part of the 2011 I-95 Lexington to Reading sign update project).

[roadman65]

I also noticed on I-25 in Colorado that there were also missing exit guide signs for unnumbered roads back in 01 when I transited CO completely from US 84 in NM to US 18 in WY.  Instead CO just had 1/2 mile guides alone for named roads at most of the original US 85 intersections that were converted to RIRO set ups.

Examples please? The RIRO exits I'm familiar with along I-25 in southern Colorado are just ranch road-type exits. None that I'm aware of exit to actual old U.S. 85, where a recognizable fragment of this might remain. I-25 in the Pueblo-Colorado Springs segment does have some frontage road that I believe is not actually not old U.S. 85, but rather frontage road constructed simultaneously with the interstate. Some of the original I-25 bridges, now mostly if not all replaced, were original U.S. 85-87 bridges.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Pueblo,+CO&hl=en&ll=38.381355,-104.618737&spn=0.003852,0.010568&sll=27.698638,-83.804601&sspn=8.903392,21.643066&oq=pueb&t=h&hnear=Pueblo,+Colorado&z=17&layer=c&cbll=38.381796,-104.618715&panoid=gZ91BF6fHrluK0fTrFm0JA&cbp=12,348.53,,0,0
Here is one that has the exit number where a full guide sign should be, and there does not seem to be another guide sign nearby.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Pueblo,+CO&hl=en&ll=38.437001,-104.606613&spn=0.004093,0.010568&sll=27.698638,-83.804601&sspn=8.903392,21.643066&oq=pueb&t=h&hnear=Pueblo,+Colorado&layer=c&cbll=38.436763,-104.606646&panoid=uKgZEGHH7Y1AoP24KS1Wyw&cbp=12,186.63,,0,0&z=17

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Pueblo,+CO&hl=en&ll=38.547603,-104.645194&spn=0.004086,0.010568&sll=27.698638,-83.804601&sspn=8.903392,21.643066&oq=pueb&t=h&hnear=Pueblo,+Colorado&layer=c&cbll=38.547359,-104.645073&panoid=89OF6rvidX5ci8AbEEEfeg&cbp=12,351.11,,0,0&z=17

Here are more that are lacking exit guides.  These do not seem to RIRO either, so Colorado does not sign its unnumbered  roads with all of the necessary guides.

[J N Winkler]

For the avoidance of doubt, let's make sure we have our terminology correct.

*  An advance guide sign has destinations and a distance legend (e.g., "EXIT 1/2 MILE" or "1/2 MILE"), and is located upstream of the exit.

*  An exit direction sign has destinations, an arrow, and is situated at the exit itself, generally at or just upstream of the ramp diverge.

*  A NEXT RIGHT sign is now considered a type of supplemental guide sign and is typically located well upstream of the exit, generally within the sequence of advance guide signs for that exit, although in the past some states have used this format as an exit direction sign.

I also noticed on I-25 in Colorado that there were also missing exit guide signs for unnumbered roads back in 01 when I transited CO completely from US 84 in NM to US 18 in WY.  Instead CO just had 1/2 mile guides alone for named roads at most of the original US 85 intersections that were converted to RIRO set ups.

These exits (I defer to High Plains Traveler's reservation as to whether they actually connect with old US 85) are signed under a MUTCD clause which allows exit direction signs to be omitted at low-volume interchanges.  Normal provision is an advance guide sign and a gore sign, which is sometimes placed upstream rather than (as usual) downstream of the ramp diverge.

Colorado also used "NEXT RIGHT" messages on exit direction signs in the past.  I found several of these signs on I-70 when I passed through in 2002, but I believe they have now all been removed.  Colorado now uniformly uses arrows on exit direction signs.

I have no idea if Colorado still has one sign only unnumbered road exit ramps, as I have not been back in 12 years.

Both CDOT photologging imagery (dated 2011) and Google StreetView (imagery date August 2012) indicate that there are still low-volume exits without exit direction signs, but the latter shows suspiciously fresh exit direction signs at several I don't remember having them the last time I cruised CDOT's photolog for I-25, so I suspect CDOT may be phasing in exit direction signs at these locations.  (If they are, then good for them--I think the MUTCD's low-volume exception defies driver expectancy, and therefore is quite dangerous and should be removed.  CDOT certainly should not be using it as cover to omit exit direction signs on a road that combines serious geometric deficiencies with a 75 MPH speed limit.)

I-25 Exit 55 (northbound) is one example of a minor exit lacking an exit direction sign.

Also, to know what is everyone's thought on guide signs in this matter.  Is NEXT RIGHT better than arrows, or what?

NEXT RIGHT should never be used as an exit direction sign because it is too easy to confuse with a supplemental guide sign.  Arrows should always be used when the intention is to indicate an exiting movement.

[kphoger]

For the avoidance of doubt, let's make sure we have our terminology correct.

*  An advance guide sign has destinations and a distance legend (e.g., "EXIT 1/2 MILE" or "1/2 MILE"), and is located upstream of the exit.

*  An exit direction sign has destinations, an arrow, and is situated at the exit itself, generally at or just upstream of the ramp diverge.

*  A NEXT RIGHT sign is now considered a type of supplemental guide sign and is typically located well upstream of the exit, generally within the sequence of advance guide signs for that exit, although in the past some states have used this format as an exit direction sign.

Oh, if only that covered all the bases......   For example, ↓↓ WTF??? ↓↓


(located 2.8 km in advance of the exit)

[roadman65]

It seems to me that the Feds are requiring actual arrows for the sake of direction even though in the past "NEXT RIGHT" has been used in lieu of.   I guess, now, there are more people on the roads and each state having their own definition of guide signs could be confusing to a stranger. 

In New Jersey, it would never use a "NEXT RIGHT" unless it was followed by an at exit guide with an arrow, except on the Garden State Parkway that uses primarily 1, 2, 1/2  mile advance  signs upstream with only an at exit guide with arrows.   However, FL, PA, and other states would use the advance sign NJ would use as an at exit guide sign in place of the arrow.  Even in SC north of Lake Marion on I-95, the at exit guide used "RIGHT LANE" for many years.

So its easily deceiving to those who are familiar with another type of signing in their own local area being used differently in another region or state.  I am glad CDOT is resigning the not so important exits with better signs, though.

[thenetwork]

Colorado also used "NEXT RIGHT" messages on exit direction signs in the past.  I found several of these signs on I-70 when I passed through in 2002, but I believe they have now all been removed.  Colorado now uniformly uses arrows on exit direction signs.

NEXT RIGHT should never be used as an exit direction sign because it is too easy to confuse with a supplemental guide sign.  Arrows should always be used when the intention is to indicate an exiting movement.

Within the last few years, C-DOT "resurrected" the NEXT RIGHT movement through a mainline sign replacement project(s) -- specifically along I-70 in Garfield & Eagle County (West of Vail) -- which replaced exit guides w/ arrows.  Fortunately, the sign replacements in Mesa County/Grand Junction retained the exit guides with arrows!