Orlando, FL: Need info on SR/CR 535, and SR/CR 423, and a few others

[Brian556]

I am making a map of Orlando; and I cannot conclusively determine where these two roads change from STATE to COUNTY.

I've used the FDOT current Orange County General Highway Map http://www.dot.state.fl.us/surveyingandmapping/geomap/Oran_c.pdf, as well as Google Streetview, but those have been inconclusive and sometimes contridictory.

Concerning SR/CR 535: The General Highway map shows the whole thing being county, but GSV shows it being state at least as far north as I-4. The signs at i-4 say SR 535 both directions. At The Apopka-Vineland/ Winter Garden-Vieland intersection, there are no signs, even though the route turns here. At the Winter Garden-Vineland/ Fiquette-Hancock Rd intersection, there are county markers.

Concerning SR/CR 423:Signs at I-4 say its county both ways, signs at SR 408 say state both ways.

Concerning Apopka Vineland Rd(From 535 to CR 526)- the General Highway Map says it's a county road. Is it or was it ever signed as such?

[NE2]

Concerning SR/CR 535: The General Highway map shows the whole thing being county, but GSV shows it being state at least as far north as I-4. The signs at i-4 say SR 535 both directions. At The Apopka-Vineland/ Winter Garden-Vieland intersection, there are no signs, even though the route turns here. At the Winter Garden-Vineland/ Fiquette-Hancock Rd intersection, there are county markers.

Signage-wise it ends at the turn at Vineland; there's southbound reassurance just beyond. But it's a county job, since state maintenance begins just north of I-4 (and it's posted). The same happens with the west end of SR 482 - it's signed both ways from I-4 and east from Turkey Lake Road, but state maintenance ends just west of I-4.

Concerning SR/CR 423:Signs at I-4 say its county both ways, signs at SR 408 say state both ways.

It's always changed at Church Street. Again posted with begin/end state maintenance signs.
Note that SR 528 to SR 482 was state until about ten years ago.

Concerning Apopka Vineland Rd(From 535 to CR 526)- the General Highway Map says it's a county road. Is it or was it ever signed as such?

There used to be CR 435 trailblazers from both directions on 535 at the south end, but nowhere else. I suspect that the number was accidentally introduced into FDOT's records when the state turned back the northern part of Apopka Vineland to Orange County in 1983, since they used the pre-1945 number (414) which went down Good Homes and the south section, despite apparently never being state maintained south of Silver Star (SR S-435 used Hiawassee, now signed as CR 435).

PS: many of the routes on the FDOT map are no longer signed. OSM should have only the signed ones (but even signage for these can suck). Note that MapQuest still hasn't fixed the bug that shows two-digit county roads in a rounded rectangle; this only affects CR 15 (which changes at SR 528, even though it's been given to the city south of Lee Vista).

[Brian556]

Thanks, NE2. Appreciate the info.

I did find all the State Maint. signs that you mentioned on GSV.

It really does not make sense that SR 482 is signed both ways from I-4, despite the route ending just a few feet west of I-4.

Same goes for 535. However, since the portion north of I-4 is county, it should be signed as such.

On another note, it appears to me that this sign on EB SR 482 is wrong. This is CR 527, not 527A, right?
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=28.450921,-81.365433&spn=0.000019,0.012531&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=28.450917,-81.365322&panoid=tui6JPxsVS_XH1mejcXkWw&cbp=12,105.17,,0,0

[Ace10]

I can confirm what NE2 posted regarding SR 535 and CR 535. I'm pretty sure that state/county maintenance begins and ends at the intersection of Apopka-Vineland Rd and Winter Garden-Vineland Rd/Palm Pkwy. From that intersection southward, 535 is state-maintained through to US 192. So the BGSs on/directional trailblazers from the offramps of I-4 are indeed correct in showing SR 535. (Disney's on the other hand are WRONG (the ones leading to CR 535).) It is also at this intersection where CR 435 begins northward.

A bunch of construction on CR 535 in Winter Garden to widen it to 4 lanes has just completed. There are a few new CR 535 shields along the route now. More construction is going on near the intersection of Reams Rd.

Brian, one thing you might want to be aware of if you're also mapping toll roads: The county map you referenced does not show the new (and realigned) portions of SR 429, SR 414, and SR 451. NE2's suggestion to use OpenStreetMap is good - OSM usually gets updated with new and proposed alignments light years ahead of Google or Bing. Plus, the level of detail in OSM is much better too, in my opinion.

[NE2]

On another note, it appears to me that this sign on EB SR 482 is wrong. This is CR 527, not 527A, right?
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=28.450921,-81.365433&spn=0.000019,0.012531&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=28.450917,-81.365322&panoid=tui6JPxsVS_XH1mejcXkWw&cbp=12,105.17,,0,0

All the former CR 527 signs have disappeared (I remember a few at the jog across the railroad, now a sweeping curved bridge, and one entering from Osceola County). Now the only signage is consistent FDOT installations for CR 527A.


God fucking damn it. Orange County must have installed this in the last few years: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=28.348957,-81.391954&spn=0.017298,0.033023&gl=us&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=28.349273,-81.3919&panoid=5ALlWsqkCHoIrm57Hr513Q&cbp=12,17.69,,0,-0.03

I can confirm what NE2 posted regarding SR 535 and CR 535. I'm pretty sure that state/county maintenance begins and ends at the intersection of Apopka-Vineland Rd and Winter Garden-Vineland Rd/Palm Pkwy.

Nope - maintenance changes just north of I-4: http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=28.380451,-81.505251&spn=0.017217,0.033023&gl=us&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=28.380219,-81.505258&panoid=-QsxS7Q_p0WBGF0S3JCZJA&cbp=12,162.95,,0,8.39

[florida]

FDOT has been known to sign state routes as going further than their termini with Interstates.

[Ace10]

I never noticed the maintenance sign. I still find it odd since there's a SOUTH FL 535 shield alongside a TO I-4 shield just south of that intersection. Anyone know the agency responsible for putting that up?

[roadman65]

I never noticed the maintenance sign. I still find it odd since there's a SOUTH FL 535 shield alongside a TO I-4 shield just south of that intersection. Anyone know the agency responsible for putting that up?

I think that is Orange County Traffic Engineering.  They're responsible for maintaining that stretch, but stranger things have happened.  I will have to look at the back of the installation as the stickers on it will tell.

[NE2]

It's a little off-standard, so it's most likely a county job. It replaced an older (presumably state-installed) shield a few years back.

[Brian556]

Thanks for your help guys.

Were some or all of the portions of John Young Pkwy that are currently county ever state?

Concerning the abandoned lanes at TOLL 429/TOLL 414: How long were these used, and has anything been done with them since the current aerial photography on Google Maps was taken?

[NE2]

Were some or all of the portions of John Young Pkwy that are currently county ever state?

Only SR 528 to SR 482.

Concerning the abandoned lanes at TOLL 429/TOLL 414: How long were these used, and has anything been done with them since the current aerial photography on Google Maps was taken?

They were used from the opening in 2000 until the reconfiguration in 2012.

http://maps.ocpafl.org/webmap/ has 2013 aerials that show the road torn up and bridges removed.

[Brian556]

Ok, so here's what I've been working on. I did it in pencil because it's easier, and I don't have any mapmaking or Photoshop software.
The purpose of this map is to show former state highway alignments and numbers.

I chose to leave off many of the routes shown on my 1943 map bacuse as NE2 stated, many of them were not actualy taken over by the state. I studied each Orange County Gerneral Highway Map that is available, and included all routes shown on those. I also did this for Osceola and Seminole Counties, as portions of them are on this map.

Broken lines - - - - indicate former state highways, + + + indicates former railroads.

I did show PARK AV in Winter Park as being FMR US 17/92/SR 3based on another post, even though I did not find a map to verify it.

I'm sure it's not perfect. Please weigh in if you notice incorect or missing info.

[Ace10]

Pretty! I like it!

A few suggestions:

FL 414 continues north and west, multiplexed with new FL 429 to US 441 (well, the connector road, technically). Not sure if you also wanted to draw the FL 414 shield next to the FL 429 shield you have in the upper-left corner of the map.

There's an extra "E" in Central Florida GreeneWay, named after former OOCEA chairman Jim Greene (per Wikipedia).

Other than that, everything looks great. You definitely have all the freeways on there correctly, and I love the "Hidden 91" along the Turnpike. :-)

[NE2]

You've put old SR 545 on CR 535, CR 515 on CR 545, and SR 523 on SR 423.

SR 535 south of I-4 was a county road for a time.

CR 506 is signed south and west from the bump with SR 15 (which is signed along Hoffner/Narcoossee to SR 528).

Many Osceola County roads are unsigned - 530, 530A, 525A - but CR 522 goes east to the Boggy Creek/Boggy Creek T.

The only signs for CR 431 are on SR 408 (hence it's south of SR 50).

SR 535A became SR 537.

SR 416 is old SR 438.

SR 435 ends at SR 50, not SR 408.

SR 506 was SR 528A before the Bee Line was built west of OIA. Then 528 became 528A and 528A became 506.

SR 530 west of CR 545 north was originally SR 545A (actually it was on Bali Boulevard).

Are you sure about old SR 426A on Red Bug Lake?

LB McLeod was SR S-446 west of Vineland/Bruton (and a sign survived until ca. 2000).

[Brian556]

Thanks, NE2. I appreciate your help very much. Here is a rundown of what i did in response to your comments:

You've put old SR 545 on CR 535

Simple numerical error; fixed.

CR 515 on CR 545

fixed

and SR 523 on SR 423.

Fixed. This error is on the current FDOT Orange Co General Highway map.I thought it seemed odd to begin with.

SR 535 south of I-4 was a county road for a time.

Knew but forgot. fixed.

but CR 522 goes east to the Boggy Creek/Boggy Creek T.

fixed. co-signed it with CR 530. Hope that's right. The route marker signs on SB Boggy Creek just say "TO JCT WEST 522-->

The only signs for CR 431 are on SR 408 (hence it's south of SR 50).

That's very strange and contridictory to all the maps I've seen. The current and old FDOT General Hwy Maps shows it ONLY being N of SR 50. What are it's N and S terminuses?

SR 535A became SR 537

forgot. fixed.

SR 416 is old SR 438.

knew but forgot to mark. fixed.

SR 435 ends at SR 50, not SR 408

caught this soon as i uploaded the map. fixed.

SR 506 was SR 528A before the Bee Line was built west of OIA. Then 528 became 528A and 528A became 506.

528A became 506?? Did you mean it became 482?  I fixed the FMR 506/FMR 528A W of Edgewood.

SR 530 west of CR 545 north was originally SR 545A (actually it was on Bali Boulevard).

Every map I checked showed this being FMR SR 530. What map shows 545A?

Are you sure about old SR 426A on Red Bug Lake?

it's on the 1971 Seminole County General Highway Map.

LB McLeod was SR S-446 west of Vineland/Bruton (and a sign survived until ca. 2000).

I cannot find this on any map. Which map(s) show it? Do you have a pic of the sign?

After i get a response to the final few questions that i asked here; I will upload the corrected map; hopefully by tomorrow evening or the next day.

[Brian556]

ACE10,
Thanks for your compliment.
I added a TOLL 414 sign next to the TOLL 429 sign, like you said. I also added an "e" to make it Greeneway.

[NE2]

but CR 522 goes east to the Boggy Creek/Boggy Creek T.

fixed. co-signed it with CR 530. Hope that's right. The route marker signs on SB Boggy Creek just say "TO JCT WEST 522-->

It's not co-signed with CR 530 because CR 530 is not signed.

As for extending to the T: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=28.348051,-81.31063&spn=0.017223,0.033023&gl=us&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=28.348049,-81.310526&panoid=B6CFTDiVWX1XSaQofRk6NA&cbp=12,119.81,,0,3.22

The only signs for CR 431 are on SR 408 (hence it's south of SR 50).

That's very strange and contridictory to all the maps I've seen. The current and old FDOT General Hwy Maps shows it ONLY being N of SR 50. What are it's N and S terminuses?

It doesn't have any termini. The only signs are on SR 408.

SR 506 was SR 528A before the Bee Line was built west of OIA. Then 528 became 528A and 528A became 506.

528A became 506?? Did you mean it became 482?  I fixed the FMR 506/FMR 528A W of Edgewood.

No, the original 528A was on Oak Ridge/Hoffner/Conway/Daetwyler. Then when 528 was moved to the new Bee Line, 528A became 506 so former 528 (Sand Lake/McCoy) could become 528A.

SR 530 west of CR 545 north was originally SR 545A (actually it was on Bali Boulevard).

Every map I checked showed this being FMR SR 530. What map shows 545A?

I have a copy of a 1950 internal memo designating it (SR 545 west to SR 25). It's also in the county records (I'd link but their search is down at this moment).

LB McLeod was SR S-446 west of Vineland/Bruton (and a sign survived until ca. 2000).

I cannot find this on any map. Which map(s) show it?

County records again.

Do you have a pic of the sign?

Sadly no.


https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3779 has a few more numbers.

[NE2]

Here's 545A: http://or.occompt.com/recorder/eagleweb/viewDoc.jsp?node=DOCC29266668 (view link on the left)
I can't remember where 446 is mentioned.

[Brian556]

Here's the updated version. I made all the changes suggested (except for CR 431), plus I improved a few issues that I noticed myself.
As for CR 431: Since all maps show it only on Pine Hills Blvd north of SR 50, and there are no signs marking it, I am opting to show it as a hidden route.
As for the signs at SR 408, I am choosing to disregard them, the reason being since they are contrary to map data, I'm thinking there is a possibility that
they are an error.

Side note: while doing research for the improvement to this map, I found some abandoned pavement along US 192. I found this while looking at older maps and noticed the former bend in the road.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=28.34641,-81.639278&spn=0.001572,0.003133&t=h&z=19

Improved Map:

[Brian556]

Here is the latset updated version. I added some items that I had previously missed. These include
SR 15: Fmr alignment that turned west on Curry Ford Rd
FMR SR 24: The portion N of Winter Garden.
FMR SR 202: Added it.

Question: Was SR 51 actually co-signed with SR 22 from Orlando westward? If so I need to add it.



This is from the 1948 map. It's interesting that it shows SR 24 passing through Windermere and Dr Phillips. The detailed 1943 map shows it passing west of Windermere, and that's how I have it depicted on my map.

[NE2]

Question: Was SR 51 actually co-signed with SR 22 from Orlando westward? If so I need to add it.

I have no idea if signs were posted, but it did officially go there.
http://archive.org/stream/TheStateRoadSystemOfFlorida1939/TheStateRoadSystemofFlorida1939#page/n15/mode/2up

This is from the 1948 map. It's interesting that it shows SR 24 passing through Windermere and Dr Phillips.

Definitely an error (and probably not a 1948 map).

[roadman65]

I notice an SR 551 for Goldenrod Road between SR 15(Hoffner/Narcoosee) and the 528 Beachline.   I believe SR 551 ends at SR 15 using Old Goldenrod Road (that diverges from Goldenrod just north of SR 15).  Goldenrod Road south of Old Goldenrod Road is owned by the OOCEA and when tolls are paid will revert to the City of Orlando, so I doubt it will ever be SR 551.

[Brian556]

I caught that and made the edit. That edit is visable on the latest version of my map. I removed the 551 marker south of 15, and left a thin line. Streetview shows that the signs on SR 15 say "TO 551 -->"

[roadman65]

I caught that and made the edit. That edit is visable on the latest version of my map. I removed the 551 marker south of 15, and left a thin line. Streetview shows that the signs on SR 15 say "TO 551 -->"

It does indeed have a "TO SR 551" shield on SR 15 only because the real SR 551 is on Old Goldenrod Road (unsigned).  The current Goldenrod Road between SR 15 and Old Goldenrod Road is the defacto SR 551 because it offer the straight through connection of the two roads.