Downgrade coming for North Lakeshore Drive?

[Revive 755]

http://chicagoist.com/2013/08/06/bike_lanes_bus_and_rail_lanes_35_mp.php

There have been a couple similar articles floating around elsewhere on the net.

[Brandon]

I've heard about it.  It's a silly pipe dream that, if enacted, will lead to worse traffic congestion on the north side of Chicago.  The city needs to face facts and realize that LSD is used as a freeway whether some little bike people like it or not.

[tdindy88]

Don't buses already use that highway and isn't there a bike path that follows the lakeshore along that way?

[Revive 755]

^ Yes, sometimes more than one.

https://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Lakefront+Trail&daddr=Lakefront+Trail&hl=en&ll=41.970946,-87.626739&spn=0.027025,0.066047&sll=41.830433,-87.587643&sspn=0.108339,0.264187&geocode=FT2pgAId3YHG-g%3BFeOFfQIdIrjH-g&dirflg=b&mra=dme&mrsp=1&sz=13&t=m&z=15&lci=bike

[Brandon]

Don't buses already use that highway and isn't there a bike path that follows the lakeshore along that way?

Yes.  Many bus routes already use LSD, and there is a network of paths along the lake side of LSD for pedestrians and bicyclists.

[Joe The Dragon]

they can add some grade separations to LSD as well.

[froggie]

It's a silly pipe dream that, if enacted, will lead to worse traffic congestion on the north side of Chicago.  The city needs to face facts and realize that LSD is used as a freeway whether some little bike people like it or not.

On the flip side, A) urban freeways are expensive to build/rebuild/maintain, B) I admit it's been years since I've been on Lakeshore Dr, but the pavement was horrid and it's in dire need of a full-depth replacement, C) the highway *DOES* impose a barrier between the North Side (heck, downtown and Near North too for that matter) and the lakefront....this could be mitigated with more grade separations as Joe suggests.  But as with urban freeways, grade separations are also expensive.

Not sure if there's crowding along the CTA lines through the North Side, but if there is, the rail line would help...I recall there being a lot of high rises along the west side of the drive.

Not sure what the final solution should be...perhaps some hybrid?

[Brandon]

^^ Why is it that LSD is always such a barrier to the rich North Side and never a barrier to the poor South Side?  It's no different on either side of town how it is constructed.

Leave the Drive alone as it is and install better signage to prevent accidents.

[hobsini2]

Brandon, a couple of things that I would do to LSD. Get rid of the lights and access points at Chicago Ave and Erie St on the main part of the Drive. you could have a "slip ramp" from SB Drive to SB Inner Drive at Oak St. Then for the pedestrians and cyclists, have underpasses at the point where Mies van der Rohe Way would intersect the Drive, Walton Place, and Erie St. There is already a pedestrian underpass near Chicago Ave.

Other than that, I would leave the rest of the Drive as is.

Froggie, you asked about the roadway condition of the Drive. It had a resurfacing start back in September. It's all completed now in 2 sections.  Sheridan to Foster and Belmont to North.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-09-05/news/chi-2monthlong-lake-shore-drive-resurfacing-starts-20120905_1_obstructions-during-rush-hour-northbound-travel-lanes

Going through Grant Park, the drive could use a resurfacing.

[froggie]

^^Oh it's definitely a barrier to some of the South Side as well, but I am much less familiar with that segment, plus I thought this study was about the North Side segment of LSD.

Hobsini:  resurfacing's are a 10-year fix, at best.  From what I recall, most of LSD north of downtown needed a full depth reconstruction.

[hobsini2]

Froggie, certainly the bridge decks on the drive need to be completely redone. No dispute there.  I am always fearful of driving under the bridges and having concrete fall.

[thefro]

I can see that it's going to need a rebuild soon and maybe adding a rail line makes sense, but not at the expense of traffic lanes.

http://www.suntimes.com/21750764-418/lake-shore-drive-proposal-35-mph-speed-limit-lanes-for-bikes-buses-trains.html

John Baczek from IDOT gives a pretty diplomatic answer

"We have 70,000 people on buses; 70,000 to 150,000 driving cars; 20,000 using the trails, millions of visitors going to and from Lincoln Park,'' Baczek said of the area's daily usage. "We have a lot of needs out there that need to be addressed with a comprehensive solution.''

Dropping the speed limit would be kinda goofy since that's definitely not enforced and everyone drives 55-60 mph+ on that stretch.

[seicer]

The city needs to face facts and realize that LSD is used as a freeway whether some little bike people like it or not.

Thanks for your constructive comment. I take it that, as a cyclist, I (and others) am "little" and perhaps irrelevant to the discussion of how Chicago's future should be shaped because we bike?

Having a lot of friends on the north side and in the loop of Chicago, I found that section of the LSD to be fairly useless. It has multiple interchanges that are all very close together and has some serious weaving issues. It's bridges are crumbling and need overhauling. It is a barrier between the residences to the west and the park to the east, and the pedestrian and cyclist connections between the two and the riverfront path are pretty poor.

Traffic on the Lakeshore Trail has gotten very high during much of the day, to the point that it needs some widening and capacity improvements for - yes, cyclists and pedestrians, and perhaps a dedicated path for each (e.g. 10' cyclepath and a 4' sidewalk). At the roadway junctions, yield signs should be replaced with traffic signals for cyclists - it's always a bit tense crossing the roads in the vicinity of the park, with so many cyclists and pedestrians that cross.

Perhaps some of those ramp configurations can be removed (e.g. northbound entrance/exit) ramps, the highway opened up to allow for more east-west movement and enhancements to cycling paths. Ideally, Lakeshore Trail would be extended north to Loyola.

[Rick Powell]

Based on IDOT's experience with the Dan Ryan and the neighborhood howls of protest when local interchanges were proposed to be removed, I think there is little chance of access removal here.  Maybe a grade separation at Chicago.  The people along noth leg of LSD are more highly influential than the south siders who were affected by changes to the Dan Ryan.  Whatever is done here will be a ton more expensive than the rebuilding of the south leg, which incidentally turned out very nicely.  Especially if rail is added to the mix.

And the bike trail is definitely well used.  I can see a case for widening and bike/ped separtion here.

[ET21]

I can see a widening of the bike paths. But they are going to have a city-wide and Chicagoland protest of having only 3 lanes for a road that needs 5 in each direction

[Brandon]

I can see a widening of the bike paths. But they are going to have a city-wide and Chicagoland protest of having only 3 lanes for a road that needs 5 in each direction

Most agreed.  I would also suggest striping the bike paths for traffic flow.  Maybe even, dare I say it, divided bike paths with separate pedestrian walkways from the bike paths.  (Odd idea, bike paths with sidewalks, but they are busy enough.)

The roadway for LSD should be kept as a roadway.  There really is no good way east of the Kennedy for north-south traffic other than the Drive.  I use it whenever I need to get to somewhere north of the Loop and closer to the Lake than the Kennedy, and it is always busy, and not just with private cars.  It's full of buses and taxis as well.  I maybe see one taxi for every two private cars sometimes when I'm on the Drive.  And there's never a time I don't see several buses in each direction.

As for rail, why?  The L lines are not that far to the west, and do we really want the rail to be affected by a repeat of February 2, 2011?  During that storm, the Drive was closed, but the L lines further west were fairly unaffected.  Here's a map of the routes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chicago_L_Map.svg

[hobsini2]

The city needs to face facts and realize that LSD is used as a freeway whether some little bike people like it or not.

Thanks for your constructive comment. I take it that, as a cyclist, I (and others) am "little" and perhaps irrelevant to the discussion of how Chicago's future should be shaped because we bike?

Having a lot of friends on the north side and in the loop of Chicago, I found that section of the LSD to be fairly useless. It has multiple interchanges that are all very close together and has some serious weaving issues. It's bridges are crumbling and need overhauling. It is a barrier between the residences to the west and the park to the east, and the pedestrian and cyclist connections between the two and the riverfront path are pretty poor.

Traffic on the Lakeshore Trail has gotten very high during much of the day, to the point that it needs some widening and capacity improvements for - yes, cyclists and pedestrians, and perhaps a dedicated path for each (e.g. 10' cyclepath and a 4' sidewalk). At the roadway junctions, yield signs should be replaced with traffic signals for cyclists - it's always a bit tense crossing the roads in the vicinity of the park, with so many cyclists and pedestrians that cross.

Perhaps some of those ramp configurations can be removed (e.g. northbound entrance/exit) ramps, the highway opened up to allow for more east-west movement and enhancements to cycling paths. Ideally, Lakeshore Trail would be extended north to Loyola.

Sherman, part of my problem, as well as other motorists, with the cyclists that I encounter in the city is that when they are given bike paths in the street like on Clark St and Milwaukee Ave, they disregard stop signs and stop lights. I can't tell you how many times I have seen them do that. Now granted, not all cyclists are like that but it happens way to frequently just like there are bad drivers. I know some are going to be offended by my view but that's how I see it currently.

[seicer]

I have a problem with that as well, as a commuter who goes to work via bike and auto, but it's irrelevant to Lakeshore Drive. That's an education and enforcement issue, and only a few cities are doing that well - Columbus, Ohio is a winner in my books on both educating the masses about cycling and enforcing the laws equally. I don't bike with others who don't have the basics together - lights at night, riding on the right lane of a road (and overtaking other lanes as needed to turn and such), being predictable (no one wants weaving bikes), stopping at well timed red lights (I've run plenty because the signal will change when I'm starting through one or in the middle of one), stopping at all appropriate signs, etc.

[Brandon]

^^ I've no problem with a bicyclist going through a signal when he/she started through before the signal changed.  That's no different than a motorist doing likewise.  It's merely completing a maneuver started when the signal was green.  What I object to is the blatant, arrogant running of red signals by the more obnoxious bicyclists around Chicago.  For whatever reason, the bicyclists in the city seem to be far more obnoxious than those in the suburbs from a motorist's and pedestrian's point of view (having been both in the city).  There seems to be a specific class of wanna-be Lance Armstrongs in the city who tend to be the most obnoxious of all (they're the ones referred to a the "little bike people" locally).  The street is not to be used for racing, be it automobile or bicycle.

I like the idea of education that Columbus is doing, and I dearly wish it would come here.  We could also do with some major tickets and enforcement on the Lance-wannabes.

[silverback1065]

I've heard about it.  It's a silly pipe dream that, if enacted, will lead to worse traffic congestion on the north side of Chicago.  The city needs to face facts and realize that LSD is used as a freeway whether some little bike people like it or not.

I agree, too many people like this want to replace all interstates in urban areas with surface streets and boulevards with bike paths and bus lanes, thinking that's such a wonderful idea and will solve all traffic problems.