Jersey Freeway, Michigan Left, Arkansas Freeway, etc.

Started by Henry, February 14, 2014, 02:57:31 PM

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Brandon

Quote from: NE2 on February 20, 2014, 08:39:30 AM
Quote from: Brandon on February 20, 2014, 07:21:19 AM
Quote from: NE2 on February 20, 2014, 06:51:39 AM
Quote from: jbnv on February 20, 2014, 04:21:28 AM
There are several new Michigan Lefts on US 90 south of Lafayette. Everybody knows them as "J-turns."
If you cannot go straight across US 90, they are not Michigan lefts.

Actually, they can be.  https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=42.353089,-83.273664&spn=0.013495,0.01929&t=h&z=16  Not all side streets cross a boulevard with Michigan Lefts.

OK, fine. But if you can turn left at the intersection, is that a Michigan left? That's what you can do at a J-turn: http://www.dotd.la.gov/administration/public_info/projects/la167_la699/images%5CJunction%20of%20US%20167%20%284-lane%20highway%29%20and%20LA%20699.JPG

Actually, you can turn left out of some of them.  Going back to Telegraph Road: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=42.32233,-83.27192&spn=0.002289,0.005284&t=h&z=18 and Street view: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=42.32237,-83.272564&spn=0.002289,0.005284&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=42.322416,-83.272626&panoid=wVJLJ3yAizTC7YApPv0CZQ&cbp=12,106.31,,0,8.5

It's a very common setup, and why some of us view so-called "superstreets" as simply boulevards with Michigan Lefts.
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"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg, "Monty Python's Life of Brian"


jbnv

So to clarify, if you must turn right at the intersection, even to proceed straight (as is shown in the picture NE2 linked), it is not a Michigan Left?
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Brandon

Quote from: jbnv on February 20, 2014, 10:40:10 AM
So to clarify, if you must turn right at the intersection, even to proceed straight (as is shown in the picture NE2 linked), it is not a Michigan Left?

Actually, it is, and it is also a feature of "superstreets".  Look at the various Michigan Lefts along Telegraph Road in the Google maps I linked.  Some of them are purely U-turns.  Some allow for turning left out of them while restricting the street opposite to right turns only (a la a "superstreet").
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton, "Game of Thrones"

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg, "Monty Python's Life of Brian"

jakeroot

Quote from: Brandon on February 20, 2014, 10:47:21 AM
Quote from: jbnv on February 20, 2014, 10:40:10 AM
So to clarify, if you must turn right at the intersection, even to proceed straight (as is shown in the picture NE2 linked), it is not a Michigan Left?

Actually, it is, and it is also a feature of "superstreets".  Look at the various Michigan Lefts along Telegraph Road in the Google maps I linked.  Some of them are purely U-turns.  Some allow for turning left out of them while restricting the street opposite to right turns only (a la a "superstreet").

Maybe I'm jumping into this conversation a bit late (and therefore do not understand the scope of the conversation thus far), but I would consider having to turn right then do a U-turn to be a Michigan left in any case. Even if you then choose to turn right after the U-turn (as to continue straight), you still have to do a Michigan left. The Michigan left purely exists to allow you to cross a median. What you do on the other side of that median is none of their concern. And if U-turns are required (in situations where signals are not present), that street is a superstreet (again, just my definition).

SquonkHunter

Quote from: Brandon on February 16, 2014, 07:37:12 AM
Quote from: vtk on February 15, 2014, 10:17:49 PM
I think the Texas Twist probably makes sense on gravel (or similarly low-speed) roads with deep ditches on the side.

The Texas Twist, IIRC, was originally designed for the larger, heavier cars of the 1950s and 1960s.  The smaller, lighters cars of the 1980s and 1990s reacted differently to the end treatment.  Unlike their larger counterparts, they tended to flip instead of being redirected.

Texas is actively replacing them on major roadways and all upgraded roadways. Still have them on the back roads.

roadfro

Quote from: jake on February 20, 2014, 11:58:32 AM
Quote from: Brandon on February 20, 2014, 10:47:21 AM
Quote from: jbnv on February 20, 2014, 10:40:10 AM
So to clarify, if you must turn right at the intersection, even to proceed straight (as is shown in the picture NE2 linked), it is not a Michigan Left?

Actually, it is, and it is also a feature of "superstreets".  Look at the various Michigan Lefts along Telegraph Road in the Google maps I linked.  Some of them are purely U-turns.  Some allow for turning left out of them while restricting the street opposite to right turns only (a la a "superstreet").

Maybe I'm jumping into this conversation a bit late (and therefore do not understand the scope of the conversation thus far), but I would consider having to turn right then do a U-turn to be a Michigan left in any case. Even if you then choose to turn right after the U-turn (as to continue straight), you still have to do a Michigan left. The Michigan left purely exists to allow you to cross a median. What you do on the other side of that median is none of their concern. And if U-turns are required (in situations where signals are not present), that street is a superstreet (again, just my definition).

A "Michigan Left" purely means that you must right turn and U-turn in order to make a left turn. There are plenty of instances where you can go straight across a wide arterial along a side street, but you still have to perform the Michigan Left maneuver to make the left turn from the same side street.

A "Superstreet" (at least according to the Wikipedia entry) involves making the Michigan Left turn followed by turning right on the original road, as there is no physical way to cross the median on the main arterial from the side street.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.



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