Gowanus Expressway Tunnel

[The Ghostbuster]

From 1997 to 2011, it was proposed that the Interstate 278 Gowanus Expressway be converted into a tunnel. However, in November 2011, that plan was scrapped. What are your thoughts on this canceled project, fellow AARoads posters? Would you have supported the proposal or opposed it?

[Alps]

Based on the Big Dig and Alaskan Way, I have to say they were smart.

[cl94]

Based on the Big Dig and Alaskan Way, I have to say they were smart.

Agree completely. Billions of dollars and tons of mishaps. Better to have the money go toward more important projects.

[jakeroot]

Based on the Big Dig and Alaskan Way, I have to say they were smart.

Agree completely. Billions of dollars and tons of mishaps. Better to have the money go toward more important projects.

Major projects rarely go off without a hitch.

For what it's worth, I'm nowhere near ready to compare Alaskan Way to the Big Dig.

[Duke87]

Tunneling freeways under major cities is an idea with a lot of potential in theory. But since we have couple of high profile megaprojects fraught with delays, cost overruns, and mishaps, the public in the US is souring to such ideas.

I'd argue that this negative opinion is too hastily arrived at, though. We only currently have two major examples of urban freeway in a tunnel in the US, and both have had problems. But it has been done relatively successfully before. Madrid recently buried lengthy sections of the M30 motorway without much incident. Japan has tons of underground sections of freeway. Even in the US, I-10 under Deck Park in Phoenix is half mile of urban tunnel with no major snafus.

There is anything inherently problematic with building a freeway in a tunnel. The problems arise when the construction occurs in a culture of grift, corruption, and lack of contractor accountability. I have no doubt that miles of freeway tunnel under a city could be done gloriously in a lot of places. It cannot, however, be done in a place like Boston or New York without having problems because, in case you haven't noticed, no major project can be done in a place like Boston or New York without having problems. Construction above ground has just as many delays and overruns. At least in New York, contractors have incentive to deliver a project late because the contracts are all T&M so the more they drag it out the more they get paid. There is no mechanism for charging penalties for delays as is common practice in many other places. Issues like this need to be addressed before any more megaprojects of any sort can proceed reliably.


Alaskan way is actually exceptional in that its troubles are the result of a genuine accident, not fabricated by contractor shenanigans.

[Alps]

Alaskan way is actually exceptional in that its troubles are the result of a genuine accident, not fabricated by contractor shenanigans.

Oh, come on, you know a rival tunnel boring company placed that steel pipe in there.

[jakeroot]

Alaskan way is actually exceptional in that its troubles are the result of a genuine accident, not fabricated by contractor shenanigans.

Oh, come on, you know a rival tunnel boring company placed that steel pipe in there.

Or maybe Hitachi themselves put it there, as some sort of insurance fraud.

[froggie]

It's a fine idea in theory.  However, as others have noted, the "practice" in the US has been lackluster.

[1995hoo]

How much of a distance was proposed to have been put in the tunnel?

I remember hearing about the idea, but I never paid much attention because I assumed it would never happen. If you count just I-93 in Boston, that's about 1.7 miles of tunnel. (I think this is a reasonable way to consider it because the I-90 portion was a new road, as opposed to burying an existing elevated highway.) In the case of the Gowanus, the elevated portion, counting northbound from where the transition to elevated highway begins up to just before the Battery Tunnel toll plaza, is about 6.2 miles long as it now exists. That probably multiplies the complications quite a bit.

[froggie]

The most serious of the NYSDOT proposals would have replaced about 4 miles, from 67th St (south of where Shore Pkwy splits off) to Summit St (just north of the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel).  A direct tunnel connection to Shore Pkwy was included, as was a full interchange at 38th St and direct tunnel connections (or possibly a 2nd tunnel...hard to tell) connecting the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel to the Prospect Expressway (and extending to 7th St).