Why do city/town limits signs have population listed on them?

[1995hoo]

Virginia used to do it on I-95 for both Ashland and Fredericksburg.  It was in very tiny fonts under the city names on the green panel guides on the overhead assemblies.

QEW in Ontario uses them approaching a big city with multiple interchanges with a blue sign with the name, its people county, followed by the amount of exits serving it.

Virginia used to post population figures on BGSs as a routine matter. Somewhere on this forum (I can't be bothered to search right now, typing on my iPad) there's a link to, and there may be photos from, some congressional hearings in the 1960s about highway signs. The congressmen criticized inclusion of population on a BGS intended for directional guidance.

[briantroutman]

Somewhere on this forum (I can't be bothered to search right now, typing on my iPad) there's a link to, and there may be photos from, some congressional hearings in the 1960s about highway signs. The congressmen criticized inclusion of population on a BGS intended for directional guidance.

I think it was your own post: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=14817.msg2049288#msg2049288

[J N Winkler]

Elevation may have some relevance to your vehicle's performance, but if you're at a high enough elevation for that to matter, you should have noticed it already. (I found it very odd in Colorado seeing low-grade gas as 85 octane instead of 87 and premium as 91 instead of 93.)

This issue came up in another forum I frequent and it seems Colorado allows 85-octane gas because ASTM studies done with carburetor-equipped cars in the early 1970's show that it has acceptable antiknock performance at high altitude.  Carburetors don't have built-in compensation for thin air, so they run rich (and therefore cool) in the mountains.  Cooler intake air at altitude may also play a role in depressing combustion chamber temperatures.

This policy is widely considered out of date since modern cars with electronically controlled fuel injection will run straight stoichiometric mixtures regardless of altitude.  New cars are also generally less tolerant of low octane than the first generation with EFI, and some models can even develop cascading knock on 85-octane gas.  It is now the norm for owners' manuals to specify 87 everywhere, with no carve-out for 85 at high altitude.  Colorado has considered raising the minimum octane requirement to 87, but the sticking point is that 87 (marketed as midgrade in most parts of Colorado) is generally more expensive than in the surrounding states (where it is the lowest available grade).

As an aside, South Dakota allows 85-octane gas in the Black Hills, and its sale and use in the low-elevation eastern part of the state has attracted controversy.  Often it is sold fraudulently (85 marketed as 87) because South Dakota does not test octane at point of sale.  South Dakota is also at the far end of a rather long supply chain for refined petroleum products, so there have been shortages of 87 that have resulted in 85 being allowed for sale in the eastern part of the state on an emergency basis (this happened in 2006).

[Mdcastle]

[DaBigE]

Wisconsin does that too:  (not my pic)

Wisconsin will use the population sign on most roadways up thru major arterials. Once you get to expressways/freeways/Interstates, Wisconsin will usually post a generic "CITY/VILLAGE OF x" sign. Sometimes it seems very random where they do and do not get posted. For example, coming into Madison from the north on US 151, you will not encounter a population sign nor a "City of" sign. Yet heading north out of Madison you will encounter a City of Sun Prairie sign shortly after the Exit 98B. Some cities also get quite creative in the population signs; this is a Madison example that appears to be going the way of the dodo bird, as new ones are a "Madison spec" (more compressed) of the WisDOT layout.

[1995hoo]

Somewhere on this forum (I can't be bothered to search right now, typing on my iPad) there's a link to, and there may be photos from, some congressional hearings in the 1960s about highway signs. The congressmen criticized inclusion of population on a BGS intended for directional guidance.

I think it was your own post: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=14817.msg2049288#msg2049288

Heh. That's pretty funny. Thanks for finding it.

[Pete from Boston]

Elevation can also be useful in things like knowing how to calibrate your microwave oven.

Or baking a cake.  Because these are things travelers sometimes do.

[sipes23]

I know I have seen a few with single digit populations listed, but I don't seem to have a picture of any.  Anyone have a shot of one with a smaller population than 18?

Had I not been with the kids, I'd have stopped and taken this picture.

[sipes23]

I know I have seen a few with single digit populations listed, but I don't seem to have a picture of any.  Anyone have a shot of one with a smaller population than 18?

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.763284,-104.924976,3a,15y,301.82h,86.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLNU8sOe3sHETx43D44Ohuw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

Had I not been with the kids, I'd have stopped and taken this picture on Saturday. Definitely the smallest population I recall seeing. 4.

[hm insulators]

California uses both elevation and population statistics on their city limit signs, found primarily on freeways and state highways and if you go from one municipality to another, each municipality gets its own sign. Heading west on I-210, as you move out of Pasadena and into La Canada Flintridge, say, a sign reading "La Canada Flintridge City Limits" turns up at the municipal boundary. In Arizona, city-limit signs are found primarily in more rural areas; not so many in the Phoenix area. Many times these signs will have the town's elevation and year it was established, no population figure.

When I lived on Kauai, there were no signs at all announcing what town was what. I guess because the locals there already know that info (Kauai's a pretty small island, after all and it's one of the more rural Hawaiian islands) and it would be a simple matter for the tourists to consult their maps, plus, it would be tough to get lost on the roads over there.

[DTComposer]

California uses both elevation and population statistics on their city limit signs, found primarily on freeways and state highways and if you go from one municipality to another, each municipality gets its own sign. Heading west on I-210, as you move out of Pasadena and into La Canada Flintridge, say, a sign reading "La Canada Flintridge City Limits" turns up at the municipal boundary.

Although they are not consistently signed, particularly in cases where a route enters a city more than once. For example, I'm pretty sure the L.A. city limits aren't signed at all on CA-134, even though that route enters the city three separate times.

San Jose city limit signs exist on CA-85 for the ~3/4 mile sliver it passes through between Saratoga and Cupertino, but the 10-mile+ stretch southeast of CA-17 has no sign.

[oscar]

When I lived on Kauai, there were no signs at all announcing what town was what. I guess because the locals there already know that info (Kauai's a pretty small island, after all and it's one of the more rural Hawaiian islands) and it would be a simple matter for the tourists to consult their maps, plus, it would be tough to get lost on the roads over there.

Also, Hawaii has no local governments below the county level. It does have defined "urban area", village, etc. boundaries, but with no local governments therein, there's nobody pushing to mark the lines.

[TravelingBethelite]

Coming from the northeast, where both population and elevation on welcome signs seem to be rare, I've always found them interesting but far from essential.  Sometimes you learn just how tiny a town is:



With the '1' and '8' in different sizes, it appears this one was updated at some point.  My picture was taken almost 10 years ago (7/23/05), so I wonder if it's still at 18.

I know I have seen a few with single digit populations listed, but I don't seem to have a picture of any.  Anyone have a shot of one with a smaller population than 18?

Connecticut has a ton, even way out in the more rural areas. Here's an example.

EDIT: It has the founding date, but nothing else.

[discochris]

Minnesota lists them for incorporated cities/towns and they change them every ten years with the census I believe.
For places that aren't actual units of government, it's just the name, and no population.

Wisconsin lists them, but if a place is unincorporated, "unincorporated" is listed on the sign. Which is a little odd, in that there are unincorporated towns that are actually larger than towns that have populations listed.

[GCrites]

Elevation may have some relevance to your vehicle's performance, but if you're at a high enough elevation for that to matter, you should have noticed it already. (I found it very odd in Colorado seeing low-grade gas as 85 octane instead of 87 and premium as 91 instead of 93.)

This issue came up in another forum I frequent and it seems Colorado allows 85-octane gas because ASTM studies done with carburetor-equipped cars in the early 1970's show that it has acceptable antiknock performance at high altitude.  Carburetors don't have built-in compensation for thin air, so they run rich (and therefore cool) in the mountains.  Cooler intake air at altitude may also play a role in depressing combustion chamber temperatures.

This policy is widely considered out of date since modern cars with electronically controlled fuel injection will run straight stoichiometric mixtures regardless of altitude.  New cars are also generally less tolerant of low octane than the first generation with EFI, and some models can even develop cascading knock on 85-octane gas.  It is now the norm for owners' manuals to specify 87 everywhere, with no carve-out for 85 at high altitude.  Colorado has considered raising the minimum octane requirement to 87, but the sticking point is that 87 (marketed as midgrade in most parts of Colorado) is generally more expensive than in the surrounding states (where it is the lowest available grade).

As an aside, South Dakota allows 85-octane gas in the Black Hills, and its sale and use in the low-elevation eastern part of the state has attracted controversy.  Often it is sold fraudulently (85 marketed as 87) because South Dakota does not test octane at point of sale.  South Dakota is also at the far end of a rather long supply chain for refined petroleum products, so there have been shortages of 87 that have resulted in 85 being allowed for sale in the eastern part of the state on an emergency basis (this happened in 2006).

In addition, elevation signs can warn people of the chances of their carbureted car's fuel system getting vapor lock. I haven't heard much about fuel-injected cars getting vapor lock in the mountains, though.

[SD Mapman]

Coming from the northeast, where both population and elevation on welcome signs seem to be rare, I've always found them interesting but far from essential.  Sometimes you learn just how tiny a town is:



With the '1' and '8' in different sizes, it appears this one was updated at some point. 

Heck, I've seen a population sign where the last number was stuck over with duct tape when someone had a kid.