Pavement striping

[jeffandnicole]

2014 was a tough winter in Ontario as it was in many places in the northeast.

The cracks are reflexive cracking from a deteriorated roadbase.  Doesn't have any bearing on the thermoplastic that was used.

You said this was new asphalt. How could the roadbase have deteriorated this rapidly less than a year after it was repaved?

[hbelkins]

2014 was a tough winter in Ontario as it was in many places in the northeast.

The cracks are reflexive cracking from a deteriorated roadbase.  Doesn't have any bearing on the thermoplastic that was used.

You said this was new asphalt. How could the roadbase have deteriorated this rapidly less than a year after it was repaved?

An overlay or "mill and fill" does nothing to repair the base.

[cl94]

2014 was a tough winter in Ontario as it was in many places in the northeast.

The cracks are reflexive cracking from a deteriorated roadbase.  Doesn't have any bearing on the thermoplastic that was used.

You said this was new asphalt. How could the roadbase have deteriorated this rapidly less than a year after it was repaved?

An overlay or "mill and fill" does nothing to repair the base.

Correct. A mill and fill is putting lipstick on a pig if the base is in bad shape. Erie County, NY does overlays and mill/fills over bad roadbases all of the time and it doesn't last long.

Heck, look at what NYSDOT did to Sweet Home Road near the UB campus. They threw a single-course overlay over this concrete in 2012. It didn't even last through the winter. Compare this to 2015. Region 5 is finally doing a top-down reconstruction there.

[Bitmapped]

West Virginia Division of Highways restripes surface roads, which get regular paint, every year. Plows heavily damage the paint each year, especially in the mountain counties. Try driving US 33 east of Elkins during March and you'll find there's no pavement markings left on the mountain crossings.

[jakeroot]

According to a WSDOT blog post from last November,

- We are still looking for cost-effective solutions to make lane markings last longer and easier to see on Snoqualmie Pass. Until then, we will reapply paint at least twice a year and when needed as conditions allow.

- We have tried many alternative striping products that are very expensive and or time consuming to apply. If we find something new, we are willing to test it, but we have not found a product durable enough to withstand the traffic and snow removal equipment. The most durable products lose reflectivity very quickly providing limited guidance in the dark, and especially when wet.

- We've tried other ways to make the lane markings visible on I-90. We installed Raised Recessed Pavement Markers (RRPM's) on I-90 from North Bend to Cle Elum.  The markers sit in slots below the level of the pavement to protect them from studded tires, chains and snow removal equipment, but are less visible when the slots fill with rain or snow.

- We installed more than 4,600 LED pavement markers in a seven mile section of I-90 near the summit in both directions. It's a test to see if these markers help drivers at night and in inclement weather, and if they can withstand the punishing conditions on Snoqualmie Pass. Since they are solar powered, grey days sometimes prevent the lights from shining all night.

Just as a comparison, here's a GIF that I made, showing some of the markings after a winter season, versus before a winter season. As you can see from the blog post above, WSDOT repaints their markings along Snoqualmie Pass at least once a year (thus, the snowy scene is the result of only 5-6 months plowing):

[jeffandnicole]

According to a WSDOT blog post from last November,

- We are still looking for cost-effective solutions to make lane markings last longer and easier to see on Snoqualmie Pass. Until then, we will reapply paint at least twice a year and when needed as conditions allow.

- We have tried many alternative striping products that are very expensive and or time consuming to apply. If we find something new, we are willing to test it, but we have not found a product durable enough to withstand the traffic and snow removal equipment. The most durable products lose reflectivity very quickly providing limited guidance in the dark, and especially when wet.

- We’ve tried other ways to make the lane markings visible on I-90. We installed Raised Recessed Pavement Markers (RRPM's) on I-90 from North Bend to Cle Elum.  The markers sit in slots below the level of the pavement to protect them from studded tires, chains and snow removal equipment, but are less visible when the slots fill with rain or snow.

- We installed more than 4,600 LED pavement markers in a seven mile section of I-90 near the summit in both directions. It’s a test to see if these markers help drivers at night and in inclement weather, and if they can withstand the punishing conditions on Snoqualmie Pass. Since they are solar powered, grey days sometimes prevent the lights from shining all night.

Just as a comparison, here's a GIF that I made, showing some of the markings after a winter season, versus before a winter season. As you can see from the blog post above, WSDOT repaints their markings along Snoqualmie Pass at least once a year (thus, the snowy scene is the result of only 5-6 months plowing):

I appreciate that.  Surprised they haven't found something that'll work up there.  Then again, 5 or 6 months of nearly constant plowing is considerable...and much more than is typically requiring in most other areas of the country.

[jakeroot]

I appreciate that.  Surprised they haven't found something that'll work up there.  Then again, 5 or 6 months of nearly constant plowing is considerable...and much more than is typically requiring in most other areas of the country.

The one constantly effective thing (IMO) is the grooves in the concrete. As long as you stay between your grooves, you're probably good.

You are correct, though, that that more plowing occurs up in Snoqualmie Pass than most areas of the US. I can only assume, then, that once WSDOT finds a solution to the issue, other jurisdictions in the US may adopt it.

[cl94]

I appreciate that.  Surprised they haven't found something that'll work up there.  Then again, 5 or 6 months of nearly constant plowing is considerable...and much more than is typically requiring in most other areas of the country.

Stuff like that is why Erie County paints every year. Even then, markings are typically gone at the end of the winter in the region that gets 120+ inches/year. As far as other options, Erie County has no money, so...

[jakeroot]

I appreciate that.  Surprised they haven't found something that'll work up there.  Then again, 5 or 6 months of nearly constant plowing is considerable...and much more than is typically requiring in most other areas of the country.

Stuff like that is why Erie County paints every year. Even then, markings are typically gone at the end of the winter in the region that gets 120+ inches/year. As far as other options, Erie County has no money, so...

Erie County really needs to step up its game. Snoqualmie Pass receives (an average of) 430 inches/year, and you can still make out some of the white markings.

[cl94]

I appreciate that.  Surprised they haven't found something that'll work up there.  Then again, 5 or 6 months of nearly constant plowing is considerable...and much more than is typically requiring in most other areas of the country.

Stuff like that is why Erie County paints every year. Even then, markings are typically gone at the end of the winter in the region that gets 120+ inches/year. As far as other options, Erie County has no money, so...

Erie County really needs to step up its game. Snoqualmie Pass receives (an average of) 430 inches/year, and you can still make out some of the white markings.

I think they use the cheapest stuff available. They can't afford anything thanks to the patronage positions they have to support.

[GenExpwy]

Is it my imagination, or has NYSDOT in recent years changed the way it paints newly-paved roads?

Now, right after the new blacktop is laid, they only paint basic lines that are "good enough" for the short term. The lines might be an inch narrower, there might be occasional short gaps, and the "fancier" bits (arrows, diagonal crosshatching, and the curves and rounded ends of painted medians) are omitted. A month or two later they come back to paint everything again in the finished, high-quality style.

It seems that, until a few years ago, they used to do the final striping right after the new pavement went down.

The new way makes more sense. Fresh blacktop is covered with a thin film of asphalt, which is why it looks so black. But that film is not durable, and after a few weeks it starts to wear and weather away, and the road turns gray as you see the crushed stone. Any paint that you put on fresh blacktop will be adhering to that film of asphalt, so it will wear away quickly. By waiting to apply the finished stripes, they seem to last a lot longer.