Countdown Timer Traffic Signal

[r-dub]

While browsing a Colorado Springs FB group, I came across this picture.



Picture is dated 1967, and the caption said that this type of signal was an experiment but caused more accidents than it prevented.


I haven't seen this type of countdown timer before: was it used anywhere else?

[jakeroot]

Very, very cool! I've never seen anything like that before, but my knowledge of old signals is limited.

I can't help but wonder how they rendered the countdown? Today, you'd use LEDs, but I'm not sure how it would have worked with incandescent bulbs, or whatever they used back then.

[Kacie Jane]

I can't help but wonder how they rendered the countdown? Today, you'd use LEDs, but I'm not sure how it would have worked with incandescent bulbs, or whatever they used back then.

You can see the same idea at high school football stadiums (for example here).  And I'm not an electrician or an engineer, but my guess is that it's actually more or less the same as LEDs or other modern methods... a computer (term used loosely) just tells which bulbs to light up when to form the numbers.

[AMLNet49]

A clock would be very useful if it was during the red phase, using it for the green phase is encouraging people to beat  the clock. But having it during the red phase would be very useful.

[jeffandnicole]

A clock would be very useful if it was during the red phase, using it for the green phase is encouraging people to beat  the clock. But having it during the red phase would be very useful.

Then you'll have people gunning it the moment the countdown hits 0.  Also, green light times can vary, so the best you can do is have a countdown signal for the yellow and all-red phases.  There's little benefit to having a countdown-to-green signal.

[jakeroot]

I can't help but wonder how they rendered the countdown? Today, you'd use LEDs, but I'm not sure how it would have worked with incandescent bulbs, or whatever they used back then.

You can see the same idea at high school football stadiums (for example here).  And I'm not an electrician or an engineer, but my guess is that it's actually more or less the same as LEDs or other modern methods... a computer (term used loosely) just tells which bulbs to light up when to form the numbers.

So do you think the amber signal head was made up if these smaller, individual bulbs, while the green and red were normal bulbs?

[roadman]

I can't help but wonder how they rendered the countdown? Today, you'd use LEDs, but I'm not sure how it would have worked with incandescent bulbs, or whatever they used back then.

You can see the same idea at high school football stadiums (for example here).  And I'm not an electrician or an engineer, but my guess is that it's actually more or less the same as LEDs or other modern methods... a computer (term used loosely) just tells which bulbs to light up when to form the numbers.

First generation variable message signs also used incandescent bulb displays with a control "computer" as well.  Flip disc signs, although containing far more moving parts, were considered to have a huge advantage over incandescent signs, as they used much less power - which was a very important consideration for portable signs running off generators (remember that solar power for traffic control devices was still in its infancy when flip-disc signs were first introduced).

[1995hoo]

A clock would be very useful if it was during the red phase, using it for the green phase is encouraging people to beat  the clock. But having it during the red phase would be very useful.

Then you'll have people gunning it the moment the countdown hits 0.  Also, green light times can vary, so the best you can do is have a countdown signal for the yellow and all-red phases.  There's little benefit to having a countdown-to-green signal.

Most of Europe has the combined red-yellow cycle that tells you when it's going green. That's a similar concept to a countdown-to-green timer. Much nicer than the stupid American system of not giving any indication unless you're able to see the other street's light (assuming the streets' cycles correspond, which isn't always the case). Europeans do tend to go promptly on green. They also don't run red lights as often as Americans, but one solution to that is to have a momentary delay in the green coming on (which is already common in some places anyway....pretty routine in Northern Virginia to have a second or two delay). You just adjust the red-yellow timing as appropriate.

As it is, way too many Americans don't move when the light turns and you wind up having to honk if you're stuck behind them. Huge problem at lights with short green cycles.

[jakeroot]

...Europeans do tend to go promptly on green. They also don't run red lights as often as Americans, but one solution to that...

I'm not so sure about Europeans running less red lights. Though I'm sure the British wouldn't be so hot on me grouping them in with the continentals, red light running was a pretty common sight when I was in the UK. Lots of speeding up during the amber phase.

[english si]

Most of Europe has the combined red-yellow cycle that tells you when it's going green.

Though the mainland west of the Rhine (and Italy) favours just changing from red to green. It's Scandinavian, the UK, Central and Eastern Europe (minus a couple of Eastern European countries like Albania, Greece and Romania).

Lots of speeding up during the amber phase.

That's not running red, providing you get through...

[tradephoric]

That's not running red, providing you get through...

It was pink officer.

[jakeroot]

Lots of speeding up during the amber phase.

That's not running red, providing you get through...

Shits and giggles aside, is this something you've also noticed? I mean, there's plenty of red light running in the US, but I saw it a lot more than I expected when I was across the pond.

[english si]

Shits and giggles aside, is this something you've also noticed? I mean, there's plenty of red light running in the US, but I saw it a lot more than I expected when I was across the pond.

There's very definitely an element of trying to get through amber lights before the light turns red*. Most common, IME, when there's a queue that meant the amber-dashers have already stopped at least once at those lights, when there's several sets of signals in succession**, when the speed limit is 40mph or more, or some combination of the three.

It's also fairly common for the last car or two of the amber-dashers to not make it before the lights go red, but cross the line anyway. You don't tend to see accidents from this though due to intergreen time, British drivers not instantly accelerating off a green if there's a car in the way, etc. So it is probably safer for these cars to do this than emergency-stopping as soon as the light turns red (so as to not enter the junction), though obviously not amber-dashing is the better way to increase safety and legality.

The UK won't put countdown timers on traffic lights for motor vehicles (they have relented for pedestrians with London trialling them extensively and the rest of the country recently being able to ask for them without getting considered strange) as how long the red will last is pointless due to the red-amber phase, how long the amber lasts is the same throughout the country, and how long the green lasts would just encourage people to rush to make it. I'm not sure I agree with that decision.

*"AMBER means "˜Stop' at the stop line. You may go on only if the AMBER appears after you have crossed the stop line or are so close to it that to pull up might cause an accident", so there's kind of a red light jumping there.
**I have no idea why, given that this almost always means that you won't get the green wave and have to stop somewhere along the way.

[Brandon]

Lots of speeding up during the amber phase.

That's not running red, providing you get through...

In some states, such as Illinois, if your front wheels are across the stop line on yellow, you can proceed through the intersection.  Of course, a two-second all-red delay is common here outside of Chicago.

[jakeroot]

Lots of speeding up during the amber phase.

That's not running red, providing you get through...

In some states, such as Illinois, if your front wheels are across the stop line on yellow, you can proceed through the intersection.  Of course, a two-second all-red delay is common here outside of Chicago.

Just to make it plain, I wasn't implying that, where I'm from, requires you to stop on red (just that, drivers instinctively were trying to beat the red last time I visited Blighty). Washington and BC both permit entry into the "box" as long as the signal is amber. I'm pretty sure most jurisdictions are like this. After all, requiring you to stop on amber ruins the point of red.

[hotdogPi]

After all, requiring you to stop on amber ruins the point of red.

That's why the United States has yellow, not amber.

[jakeroot]

After all, requiring you to stop on amber ruins the point of red.

That's why the United States has yellow, not amber.

[nexus73]

In downtown Coos Bay OR, we have timed pedestrian crossing lights.  I use them to know if I'll have to worry about a stale yellow.  When the countdown ends, there is a bit more time before the yellow comes up.

Rick

[roadfro]

But still, countdowns on Amber would be seen as encouraging rushing to get over the line before the light turns red, hence why we will not have them in the UK.

This is also the reason why FHWA hasn't allowed vehicle countdown signals in the U.S.

[jeffandnicole]

In downtown Coos Bay OR, we have timed pedestrian crossing lights.  I use them to know if I'll have to worry about a stale yellow.  When the countdown ends, there is a bit more time before the yellow comes up.

Rick

Most states are using them. And yeah, they are helpful in that aspect.

[jakeroot]

In downtown Coos Bay OR, we have timed pedestrian crossing lights.  I use them to know if I'll have to worry about a stale yellow.  When the countdown ends, there is a bit more time before the yellow comes up.

Most states are using them. And yeah, they are helpful in that aspect.

Any idea if any states or agencies utilize 3M visibility signals for crosswalk signals, so that traffic cannot see the countdown?

[tradephoric]

Example of connected vehicle technology where the countdown timer displays inside the vehicle display.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R02SmHKy1ic