Under-utilized sports/performing venues.

[NWI_Irish96]

Indianapolis Motor Speedway: Three events, some testing, and lots of tours.

The problem with IMS, or any racetrack with a large amount of permanent seating, is that the venue isn't practical to use for anything except major events.  It would be way too expensive to staff security, vendors, etc., at a 250,000 seat track for an even drawing < 75,000.  So by their very nature, large capacity racetracks are going to have very low utilization, which may not be the same as under-utilization.

[hbelkins]

Smaller market but Huntington, WV "˜s building, first named the Huntington Civic Center, then Civic Arena, and now the "Big Sandy Super-Store Arena" . 

City used to have one venue, the Field House, which housed whatever came to town, plus Marshall basketball.  Belonged to the county.  City fathers got all uppity and decided to build the HCC in 1975, but, because it was going to be so full of big time acts, they refused to cooperate with Marshall.

MU continued to play in the Field House until it got money to build its own, basketball only, venue.  County kept the Field House open for smaller acts until 2009.  Meanwhile Charleston, just 50 miles away, and to a lesser extent, Pikeville, and Portsmouth, built better, and in Charleston's case, larger, venues.  So the HCC sits empty for over 320 days per year.  A monument to the city's arrogance.

Huntington isn't really going to get any big-name concerts. Pikeville's getting acts that used to be big (Lynyrd Skynyrd, Charlie Daniels Band, Alice Cooper, Kansas, 38 Special) but are past their prime, as well as lesser-known acts like Black Label Society, Shinedown, Godsmack, etc. They also host basketball tournaments, regional conferences, and other events. I've been in it a couple of times for various things.

I'd definitely think that a larger touring act would choose Charleston over Huntington, although I do occasionally hear of someone coming to Huntington. Can't really see that Big Sandy Superstore naming being an extremely lucrative thing. They've closed a few stores in the area.

You've forgotten the MAC in Prestonsburg.

Amy Grant was there over the weekend. I've been to a couple of non-concert events there. (Awards ceremonies, etc.)

[Scott5114]

Pimlico Park in Baltimore is open for, like, two weeks a year. They run the Preakness Stakes (part two of the Triple Crown), run for a couple weeks after that, and close down for the year. The park is owned by the Stronach Group, which also owns Laurel Park, and seems to be trying to consolidate everything into Laurel (despite the fact that Pimlico is the much more historic property).

[doorknob60]

Memorial Coliseum in PDX is close to the Rose Garden, which is the current home of the Trailblazers.  They still have a variety of events there but without a pro team tenant, it is underutilized.  We saw how the Portland Buckaroos of the Western Hockey League (a defunct franchise) was a major tenant decades ago, so maybe an NHL team might want to think about reviving the revenue for this Sixties Modern glass cube structure. 

Rick

The Portland Winterhawks play about half their home games at the Memorial Coliseum (the rest of them at Rose Garden/Moda Center). Maybe not technically "full time", but that's still a consistent schedule and gets it plenty of use from that.

[DandyDan]

You could reasonably say every NFL venue fits the category.

You already ignored rule #1.
[/quote]

That's what happens when you don't read it all the way through.

One venue I have been to which doesn't have very much going on is the MAC Center in Council Bluffs, Iowa. I remember the Omaha Lancers hockey team was there (when they were the River City Lancers) and I thought they had indoor football for a while, but nowadays, they don't even have concerts, to the best of my knowledge.

[hbelkins]

As a corollary to Rule #1, does anyone else find it a waste when perfectly good sports stadiums (stadia?) are torn down and replaced with specialty venues?

I point specifically to Cincinnati. Riverfront Stadium was perfectly fine as the home for both the Reds and the Bengals, but it was demolished and two separate venues were built, one for baseball and one for football. This seems like such a waste of tax dollars. I'm not sure if either stadium is used for anything other than Reds or Bengals games. Riverfront was a good multi-purpose facility.

Same thing happened in Pittsburgh, didn't it?

[KEVIN_224]

Yes. And Philadelphia. Really and city or market which had shared stadiums for baseball or football. The only shared stadium left is Oakland for the Athletics and Raiders...until the NFL leaves for Las Vegas in 2020. In Baltimore, the Orioles and Ravens are in separate stadiums, but share some of the parking lots.

Yankee Stadium is obvious for who gets priority. However, a couple of football games and soccer have been played there.

[jeffandnicole]

As a corollary to Rule #1, does anyone else find it a waste when perfectly good sports stadiums (stadia?) are torn down and replaced with specialty venues?

I point specifically to Cincinnati. Riverfront Stadium was perfectly fine as the home for both the Reds and the Bengals, but it was demolished and two separate venues were built, one for baseball and one for football. This seems like such a waste of tax dollars. I'm not sure if either stadium is used for anything other than Reds or Bengals games. Riverfront was a good multi-purpose facility.

Same thing happened in Pittsburgh, didn't it?

"Perfectly fine" is open for interpretation.

In the era of the multi-function stadiums, Veterans Stadium in Philly and others were also built to host football and baseball.  The reality is they make good baseball stadiums but lousy football stadiums.  Fan sightlines are impacted, and there's a significant conversion issue between a football and baseball stadium.  The field is problematic too...it's hard to have a grass field in an arena that has two significantly different setups, and while Astroturf was basically invented for these types of fields, players (and fans) prefer grass.   

From a taxpayer standpoint, they're obviously cheaper to build, take up less room, and highway/parking access is limited to just one stadium.  Philly is really the only area in the country where both their baseball and football stadiums are located in one area, so the parking lots are utilized for both arenas (along with the Wells Fargo Center for Hockey/Basketball as well).

(Turns out I'm repeating what Kevin just said above as well!)


 

[NWI_Irish96]

As a corollary to Rule #1, does anyone else find it a waste when perfectly good sports stadiums (stadia?) are torn down and replaced with specialty venues?

I point specifically to Cincinnati. Riverfront Stadium was perfectly fine as the home for both the Reds and the Bengals, but it was demolished and two separate venues were built, one for baseball and one for football. This seems like such a waste of tax dollars. I'm not sure if either stadium is used for anything other than Reds or Bengals games. Riverfront was a good multi-purpose facility.

Same thing happened in Pittsburgh, didn't it?

"Perfectly fine" is open for interpretation.

In the era of the multi-function stadiums, Veterans Stadium in Philly and others were also built to host football and baseball.  The reality is they make good baseball stadiums but lousy football stadiums.  Fan sightlines are impacted, and there's a significant conversion issue between a football and baseball stadium.  The field is problematic too...it's hard to have a grass field in an arena that has two significantly different setups, and while Astroturf was basically invented for these types of fields, players (and fans) prefer grass.   

From a taxpayer standpoint, they're obviously cheaper to build, take up less room, and highway/parking access is limited to just one stadium.  Philly is really the only area in the country where both their baseball and football stadiums are located in one area, so the parking lots are utilized for both arenas (along with the Wells Fargo Center for Hockey/Basketball as well).

(Turns out I'm repeating what Kevin just said above as well!)


 

Cincinnati and Kansas City also have both football and baseball stadiums in close proximity to each other.

[catch22]

As a corollary to Rule #1, does anyone else find it a waste when perfectly good sports stadiums (stadia?) are torn down and replaced with specialty venues?

I point specifically to Cincinnati. Riverfront Stadium was perfectly fine as the home for both the Reds and the Bengals, but it was demolished and two separate venues were built, one for baseball and one for football. This seems like such a waste of tax dollars. I'm not sure if either stadium is used for anything other than Reds or Bengals games. Riverfront was a good multi-purpose facility.

Same thing happened in Pittsburgh, didn't it?

"Perfectly fine" is open for interpretation.

In the era of the multi-function stadiums, Veterans Stadium in Philly and others were also built to host football and baseball.  The reality is they make good baseball stadiums but lousy football stadiums.  Fan sightlines are impacted, and there's a significant conversion issue between a football and baseball stadium.  The field is problematic too...it's hard to have a grass field in an arena that has two significantly different setups, and while Astroturf was basically invented for these types of fields, players (and fans) prefer grass.   

From a taxpayer standpoint, they're obviously cheaper to build, take up less room, and highway/parking access is limited to just one stadium.  Philly is really the only area in the country where both their baseball and football stadiums are located in one area, so the parking lots are utilized for both arenas (along with the Wells Fargo Center for Hockey/Basketball as well).

(Turns out I'm repeating what Kevin just said above as well!)


 

Cincinnati and Kansas City also have both football and baseball stadiums in close proximity to each other.

Pittsburgh too.

https://goo.gl/maps/qXzVVyYEpzSyHXN66

[GaryV]

Cincinnati and Kansas City also have both football and baseball stadiums in close proximity to each other.

Pittsburgh too.

https://goo.gl/maps/qXzVVyYEpzSyHXN66

And Detroit.  But it was a long and winding road to get from where they once played in the same stadium to where they are now.

[RobbieL2415]

Any racetrack which hosts at least one annual sanctioned event does not count as under-utilized.

So, North Willesboro Speedway doesn't count.

[hbelkins]

Any racetrack which hosts at least one annual sanctioned event does not count as under-utilized.

So, North Willesboro Speedway doesn't count.

Are they still using North Wilkesboro for something? I thought it had been totally abandoned. You can see the grandstands passing by on the US 421 four-lane.

[SP Cook]

I point specifically to Cincinnati. Riverfront Stadium was perfectly fine as the home for both the Reds and the Bengals,

Same thing happened in Pittsburgh, didn't it?

More than that.  The classic "ashtray"  or "cookie cutter"  stadiums, in Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, St. Louis, and Atlanta, all met the same fate, as did predecessors that were working on that theme, along with later variations on it.   

The last Raiders game this year will be the last use of a true joint stadium by the NFL, and when that place, which has outlived its structural age limit, is finally replaced (or the A's move to Nevada or Quebec) that will be that.

It is part of the system.  Bluntly, when the Rams left LA for tiny St. Louis, it meant that no city was too large for the NFL not to extort.  "Build us a new stadium or we will move to *" .   

The outrageous deal is that first Atlanta, and now Dallas, have replaced the 1990s era stadiums that replaced the 1960s era stadiums.  The Rangers have literally gone across the street to build a new stadium to replace one in use for only 20 years

[Beltway]

The outrageous deal is that first Atlanta, and now Dallas, have replaced the 1990s era stadiums that replaced the 1960s era stadiums.  The Rangers have literally gone across the street to build a new stadium to replace one in use for only 20 years

The stadium designs of the last decade have cost in the $1.5 billion range, fantastically expensive.

[KEVIN_224]

Actually 25 years for the Texas Rangers, but still.

[doorknob60]

Cincinnati and Kansas City also have both football and baseball stadiums in close proximity to each other.

Pittsburgh too.

https://goo.gl/maps/qXzVVyYEpzSyHXN66

And Detroit.  But it was a long and winding road to get from where they once played in the same stadium to where they are now.

And Seattle.

[jeffandnicole]

Cincinnati and Kansas City also have both football and baseball stadiums in close proximity to each other.

Pittsburgh too.

https://goo.gl/maps/qXzVVyYEpzSyHXN66

And Detroit.  But it was a long and winding road to get from where they once played in the same stadium to where they are now.

And Seattle.

Maybe Philly is the only city to have all 4 of their major professional teams in the same area then.

[GaryV]

Cincinnati and Kansas City also have both football and baseball stadiums in close proximity to each other.

Pittsburgh too.

https://goo.gl/maps/qXzVVyYEpzSyHXN66

And Detroit.  But it was a long and winding road to get from where they once played in the same stadium to where they are now.

And Seattle.

Maybe Philly is the only city to have all 4 of their major professional teams in the same area then.

How big is Philly's "same area"?  In Detroit, Ford Field (NFL) is across the street from Comerica Park (MLB).  And then less than a 1/2 mile to Little Caesars Arena (NHL, NBA).

[RobbieL2415]

Multipurpose stadiums look ugly in comparison to their more permanent counterparts.

[Beltway]

How big is Philly's "same area"?  In Detroit, Ford Field (NFL) is across the street from Comerica Park (MLB).  And then less than a 1/2 mile to Little Caesars Arena (NHL, NBA).

Adjoining city blocks. 

A triangle between the centers of the facilities would have sides of about 1,900 feet, 1,200 feet, and 2,200 feet.

[KEVIN_224]

Fenway Park (Red Sox) sits more than a mile to the west-southwest of TD Garden (Bruins/Celtics). Gillette Stadium (Patriots) is a good 20 miles southwest from Boston. In fact, the stadium site is closer to Providence, RI. Foxborough, MA is in Norfolk County, part of the Boston/Worcester (Manchester) TV market. The next town on I-95 South is Mansfield, MA. It's in Bristol County. That county begins the Providence/New Bedford TV market.

[michravera]

Rules:
-Venue must be used for at least one event per year, but not have a full-time tenant.
-Standing-but-not-operating spaces, like the Astrodome, don't count.
-Venues used by municipal boards of education for varsity athletics and artistic performances don't count.
-Venue must be a permanent structure.  Cirque-du-Solei, temporary conversions (i.e. Field of Dreams for MLB next year) don't count, for example.
-Burning Man does not count.
-Festival sites do not count unless they occur in a permanent structure.

Go.

Kesar Stadium and the Cow Palace in San Francisco. The 49ers stopped playing in Kesar in about 1971 and the Warriors quit playing at the Cow Palace in about 1970. The Cow Palace was named for a livestock show held their annually. Kesar currently hosts football games and other events.