Highway sign assemblies with a mix of Highway Gothic and Clearview

[KCRoadFan]

I'm sure there's probably some other post about this particular topic from years ago, but I'll make one here myself.

Anyway, on my ongoing cross-country Street View journey along US 20, I found this gantry at that road's junction with I-475 on the west side of Toledo, Ohio. On this particular installation, the left and right panels ("Ann Arbor" and "Maumee") are in Clearview, while the middle panel ("Central Ave") is in FHWA Series E, aka "Highway Gothic".

Throughout the country, where else have you seen other such mixed sign assemblies?

[CoreySamson]

This sign is what I immediately thought of upon reading the title. Gothic sign with a Clearview patch. I may be wrong, but I believe there's a picture somewhere on this forum (probably on the Best of signs or Unique signs threads) of a sign in Houston with Clearview and a button-copy US 90 shield.

Edit: here it is:

An oldie-but-a-goodie in Houston...yes, Clearview was applied but the original sign was retained:

[SkyPesos]

This is somewhat common with exit tabs, as some states that uses Clearview for the main panel maintain a FHWA font exit tab, instead of using Clearview digits.

[Big John]

FHWA had the guideline that Clearview was OK on the destination text and FHWA font on the rest of the sign.

[roadfro]

From the AARoads galleries, I submit this sign on Nevada I-580/US 395 northbound approaching Plumb Lane. The first line is in standard fonts and the entire rest of the sign is in Clearview. Oddly, the sign was manufactured this way, installed years ago during the US 395 northbound widening project (the signage installed during that project remains the only major use of Clearview on Nevada freeways).

[ClassicHasClass]

Is that ALT US 90 sign still up?? I'd love to nab a shot of it when I'm down that way later this year.

[JoePCool14]

Almost any ISTHA sign that was installed prior to about 5 years ago that has since had an exit tab added.

Here's one example on the Tri-State: https://goo.gl/maps/gufSGn6Qncd2iN5t6

[wanderer2575]

Shortly before adopting Clearview, MDOT (Michigan) installed a series of demo signs showing the differences between Clearview and FHWA Gothic along a loop of northbound M-10, eastbound I-94, and southbound I-75 and I-375 in downtown Detroit.  (I believe there was a convention of traffic engineers at Cobo Center at the time.)  Some of those signs are still in place.  All photos taken today.

First I-94 advance sign on northbound M-10, with both fonts on the sign.  I shot this photo with a flash to highlight the difference in reflectivity.  I really think MDOT goosed the demo by deliberately reducing reflectivity of the Gothic lettering on all these demo signs.  (The Clearview sign for exit 3 came several years later.)


Final advance signs, with Gothic on the left and Clearview on the right.  MDOT also included on the Gothic sign underlining the cardinal direction and not increasing the height of its first letter, as was the design standard of the time.


Last I-75 advance sign on eastbound I-94, both fonts.


Southbound I-375 approaching Jefferson Avenue.  (No mile markers or exit numbers on I-375.)

[ztonyg]

Arizona has a number of instances of this (even moreso now that ADOT has moved on from Clearview).

Some examples more like the OP:

https://goo.gl/maps/UARxVXtvWzf4WtFs8

https://goo.gl/maps/jcEZd6s8kmbDkxxS8

https://goo.gl/maps/TCWWmqkwKyZaeDe49

https://goo.gl/maps/tS1fhVZx2WLSeCLe8

This sign takes the cake for Arizona though:

https://goo.gl/maps/19TpT3C2o7pjy9aL6

[1995hoo]

Southbound I-95 in Fairfax County. The sign to the left is over the express lanes. I'm pretty sure these have been replaced as part of the HO/T lane project, but I haven't been that way since late May and I just didn't notice on that trip. The new signs would have a "LEFT EXIT" tab for the sign closer to the camera and an "EXPRESS EXIT" banner for the other sign.




Edited to add: October 2019 Street View shows the express lanes' BGS was replaced but the mainline's sign wasn't. What's nice about this sign assembly is that both signs use the word "Woodbridge" in the two different typefaces, thus providing an easy way to compare the two.

[Scott5114]

^ It looks like the entire gantry was replaced (note the lack of gusset plates on the gantry in the dashcam shot), but the old mainline sign got transferred over. That's odd.

[StogieGuy7]

These examples all seem to demonstrate that Highway Gothic is indeed more legible and aesthetically pleasing than Clearview. To be fair, we all have biases, but I simply can't understand the supposed upside to clearview and why so many agencies switched to it.

[1995hoo]

These examples all seem to demonstrate that Highway Gothic is indeed more legible and aesthetically pleasing than Clearview. To be fair, we all have biases, but I simply can't understand the supposed upside to clearview and why so many agencies switched to it.

That seems inherently like an opinion. To me, the most interesting example is the signs on I-95 I posted because both signs have the same word in different typefaces, which makes them easier to compare. My dashcam capture there is pretty grainy, but I've seen those two signs often enough in person and I've found that from a distance, it's easier to read the Clearview one (recognizing that my perception is surely colored by the fact that I know what the signs say because I've lived here for almost my entire life).

[hbelkins]

These examples all seem to demonstrate that Highway Gothic is indeed more legible and aesthetically pleasing than Clearview. To be fair, we all have biases, but I simply can't understand the supposed upside to clearview and why so many agencies switched to it.

That seems inherently like an opinion. To me, the most interesting example is the signs on I-95 I posted because both signs have the same word in different typefaces, which makes them easier to compare. My dashcam capture there is pretty grainy, but I've seen those two signs often enough in person and I've found that from a distance, it's easier to read the Clearview one (recognizing that my perception is surely colored by the fact that I know what the signs say because I've lived here for almost my entire life).

Seeing the examples posted show why halation could be a problem for some, especially in letters with open sections like a, b, e, o, p, etc. The narrower strokes and wider openings are readily apparent, which would also probably help in legibility from a distance.

I don't find one font more aesthetically pleasing or legible than the other, but for those who have issues with halation, I can see Clearview's advantages.

[Ned Weasel]

Look closely: https://goo.gl/maps/HnEWB2wNYgCrLUk56

[DJStephens]

These examples all seem to demonstrate that Highway Gothic is indeed more legible and aesthetically pleasing than Clearview. To be fair, we all have biases, but I simply can't understand the supposed upside to clearview and why so many agencies switched to it.

There are a few overheads in El Paso, that have a mixture of both standard and clearview font on the same panel.   Also is a newer one, on I-10 EB, between Airway, and McRae that is entirely in FHWA.  Wow, a normal sign, in a forest of aberrant ones.   The biggest thing about Texas' "switchover" is / was the tremendous waste.   In more than one location, perfectly good, and fairly new signage was taken down in the mad dash to /worship of clearview.   Am of opinion perhaps just in the clearview changeover, at least several BILLION statewide in texas was squandered. Billions more were frittered away in architectural overkill, and throwaway improvements, instead of doing it right the first time around.  Billions that could have been spent, in far more important arenas.  Corridor development, and upgrades, and upholding standards.   

[Rothman]

Show me the FMIS authorization that billions were spent in Texas on the Clearview switchover.

[hbelkins]

The biggest thing about Texas' "switchover" is / was the tremendous waste.

I don't know about Texas, but it seemed to me that Michigan was really overzealous in switching. I remember driving through a project once, either on I-94 or I-196, where a bunch of perfectly good, functional, still-reflective and still-legible signs were marked for replacement. Not just swapping FHWA for Clearview, but route markers and regulatory and warning signs as well.

[ztonyg]

The biggest thing about Texas' "switchover" is / was the tremendous waste.

I don't know about Texas, but it seemed to me that Michigan was really overzealous in switching. I remember driving through a project once, either on I-94 or I-196, where a bunch of perfectly good, functional, still-reflective and still-legible signs were marked for replacement. Not just swapping FHWA for Clearview, but route markers and regulatory and warning signs as well.

Arizona did that as well on most of the rural freeways (most rural signage was converted to Clearview). Interestingly enough a bunch of FHWA signage (including button copy) remained in place in the urban areas (including some signage that really could've used replacement).

Now with Arizona switching to FHWA Enhanced E some perfectly good Clarview signs are getting replaced with Enhanced E signs during road construction projects.

[Dirt Roads]

The biggest thing about Texas' "switchover" is / was the tremendous waste.

I don't know about Texas, but it seemed to me that Michigan was really overzealous in switching. I remember driving through a project once, either on I-94 or I-196, where a bunch of perfectly good, functional, still-reflective and still-legible signs were marked for replacement. Not just swapping FHWA for Clearview, but route markers and regulatory and warning signs as well.

Arizona did that as well on most of the rural freeways (most rural signage was converted to Clearview). Interestingly enough a bunch of FHWA signage (including button copy) remained in place in the urban areas (including some signage that really could've used replacement).

Now with Arizona switching to FHWA Enhanced E some perfectly good Clarview signs are getting replaced with Enhanced E signs during road construction projects.

That was my original thought about the "terrible waste" quote from DJStephens.  It seems to me that most states leave signage up way too long and only replace them during huge signage replacement projects.  So the "terrible waste" occurs during construction projects, where signage design is subcontracted out.  The subcontractor grabs as much as they can handle at a particular price (small percentage of the total contract), and the prime contractor demands that all of the proposed work be fulfilled.  Looking down from 20,000-foot elevation, that seems to be appropriate.  It would certainly be better if local authorities could make adjustments that avoid the waste, but you really don't want to see the sausage involved with creating change orders.

[hbelkins]

^^^

Given you've told us what your native state is, there was an interesting sign replacement project on I-79 there a few years back. All the signs between Charleston and the WV 36 exit were replaced with Clearview.

(And in that project, they replaced the WV 114 route marker signage on the guide signs with US 119, for some unknown reason, and I was never able to get an answer from WVDOT despite being acquainted with their PR guy and emailing him from my work account.)

The next round of sign replacements went from that exit to Flatwoods, and the signs were obviously designed during the time Clearview was disallowed, because they were done in the standard font.