DFW: US 380 freeway in Collin and Denton counties

[rtXC1]

That Princeton Bypass rendering is pretty impressive. I kind of expected a configuration of 3x3 lanes. But the rendering shows no less than 4x4 lanes thru the project (with multiple locations boasting 5-lane wide roadways). On top of that the frontage roads are often 3 lanes wide. That may be a good acknowledgement of just how staggering population growth has been on the North side of the DFW Metroplex.

Bicyclists and pedestrians/joggers should really like the proposed crossing over Lavon Lake. The rendering shows separate, dedicated paths for pedestrians and (I hope) bicyclists on the outboard side of the frontage roads both North and South of the proposed freeway. Pedestrians and bicyclists currently have no such access alongside the existing US-380 highway. The finished project could be really nice and scenic for joggers and bike riders.

Of course, the next step on the push towards I-30 would be how to progress the freeway through Farmersville on the other side of Lavon Lake. I'm thinking in this case they'll have to upgrade over the existing ROW. There are existing yet sub-standard exits at the intersections of TX-78 and Main Street. A scattering of existing properties too close to existing US-380 will have to be bought and removed in order to push the freeway to Greenville and the finish line of I-30. Even in Greenville a fair amount of work has to be done on the existing US-380 bypass around town to I-30. No doubt TX DOT probably already has plans drawn up for Farmersville and Greenville.

The Farmersville section will be another bypass. Alignment selection has already been chosen for this section. I think Hunt County will have to make a push to get their portion of highway upgraded.

https://www.keepitmovingdallas.com/projects/us-highways/us-380-collin-and-denton-county

[bwana39]

Collin County and Hunt are in different TxDOT districts. Paris may be overwhelmed with the US-75 upgrades in Grayson COunty.

[Bobby5280]

I'm surprised they've planned a bypass around the South side of Farmersville. They'll still have to buy and demolish some businesses and homes even for the bypass route to work. I figured it would be cheaper to just upgrade in place. At any rate, the South bypass doesn't look like it goes way out of the way from the existing US-380 alignment. The detours around McKinney and Princeton are much bigger by comparison.

From the Hunt County line to the Greenville Bypass it looks like US-380 has an average ROW width of 250'. It's possible to squeeze a 4-lane freeway and frontage roads into that ROW width with some room still to spare. It wouldn't be as optimal as a 300' wide ROW though. There is an obvious looking flare-out of ROW width in the town of Floyd at the intersection of FM-36. It's ready-made for a diamond style exit.

Paris may be overwhelmed with the US-75 upgrades in Grayson COunty.

The very least they can do is keep developers from jumping up on the edges of the existing US-380 highway, building a bunch of stuff in order to get paid to tear it down.

[Road Hog]

The highway in Hunt County is built to a different spec than the Collin County portion, 4-lane divided with a wide median. Probably not wide enough for main lanes, but at least there is preservation of ROW and the possibility of frontage roads that will be needed.

[Bobby5280]

An existing ROW width of 250' isn't optimal for a Texas-style Interstate flanked by frontage roads. In rural areas the ROW widths vary from 300' to 420' wide, or even wider than that in some locations.

A 6-lane freeway with 10' wide outer shoulders and 6' wide inner shoulders needs at least 104' of width just for those lanes. Maybe add 2 feet more to give extra space to a large Jersey barrier dividing the two directions of traffic (so it's not eating up some of the inner shoulder area). That leaves 72' of width on each side to accommodate frontage roads. A 2-lane frontage road with proper inner and outer shoulders is going to take 40' of space. The remaining 30' or so worth of "green" area has to suffice for drainage and other considerations.

I think TX DOT likes the really wide ROW foot prints for rural freeways because shit happens. If a vehicle loses control and goes into a side-skid off the highway it's best for the vehicle to have plenty of mowed grass land ahead of it where it can hopefully stop without rolling. Other vehicles break down or need to stop for various reasons. It's common for such vehicles to completely pull off the shoulder. On the 3x3 widened portion of the Turner Turnpike the main lanes plus shoulders take 120' of width. Plus there are 20' wide swaths outside the shoulders covered with gravel. I think the OTA is adding that gravel partly for drainage purposes, but to also prevent chances of a vehicle catching grass land on fire when parked on top of it.

A 6-lane freeway with frontage roads in a narrow foot print will need more Jersey barriers and/or cable barriers to confine crashes within their own roadways. Any such crashes could be more messy. Depending on how the roadways are configured and placed, vehicles crashing out or breaking down may have a harder time getting completely off the highway.

[Stephane Dumas]

One guy posted some videos showing various constructions locations on US-380.

[MaxConcrete]

SH 399 groundbreaking. I think this project is for frontage road improvements only. At Stewart Road, SH 399 veers east onto a new alignment. I'm virtually certain there has not been a contract awarded for SH 399 main lanes.

Press release

MCKINNEY – The Texas Department of Transportation (TxDOT), along with local and state officials, broke ground last week on the Spur 399/State Highway 5 project between U.S. 75 and Stewart Road.

The event marked a significant milestone in TxDOT's ongoing Spur 399/US 380 Collin County corridor planning initiative.

"It's taken a lot of effort to get to today, and I'm very happy to be here," said Texas Transportation Commissioner Robert Vaughn. "Collin County is growing rapidly, and TxDOT is committed to addressing the resulting highway congestion with this project. But this is just the beginning. Over the coming years, TxDOT will invest $8 billion into projects along Spur 399 and US 380 in Collin County."

Construction on this initial expansion project is set to begin in June 2025. The project will widen Spur 399 from four to six lanes to help relieve traffic congestion and support the county's growing population. Completion is anticipated in early 2029.

[Stephane Dumas]

Here one video showing the updates to US-380 posted a week and half ago.

[Stephane Dumas]

Here the recent video update of US-380, posted around August 8.

[Stephane Dumas]

Here clips showing the various upgrades of US-380 posted between October 10 and October 20.

[armadillo speedbump]

So looking at the expensive takings required for a full size freeway on the Denton County side, I figured it would probably never happen.  But the 5 overpasses and related intersections being built fit within a 240' ROW  (including adjacent sidewalks), so a fully grade separated superstreet concept is doable (and probably the realistic end game being planned). 

Like the US 90A corridor in southwest Houston (I610 to Stafford), the overpasses are being built for 3x3 lanes with no real shoulders.  The intersection feeder roads reduce to 1 lane when merging back, but there is probably room for 2.  So the sections between overpasses are starting as 3x3 or 4x4, but have room for a 5x5 buildout.  The 90A superstreet has a median barrier the entire length, so no left turns and a 55 mph speed limit.  That's good enough.

So far, there's only a relatively small stretch that would require major takings to get a 240' ROW.  Going west, there is a half mile from Navo to Paloma Creek.  The new housing subdivision at Juniper Canyon Dr appears to have left sufficient setback, so perhaps the cities are now planning for that and we'll see no more encroachment development.  There's also about a .7 mile stretch west of FM720 to Naylor that will require takings.  Could be some issues approaching 288, depends on the final recommendation, but doable.

If I counted correctly, the current project, scheduled for completion early next year, will reduce the stoplights between the North Dallas Tollway and the 288 Loop in Denton from 15 to 10.  However it looks like at least 2 more are planned.

If I were king, and recognizing the realities of limited funds, I'd prioritize:

1.  ROW acquisition for the Denton-Collin County Outer Loop for the entire route

2.  Upgrade 380 to a fully grade separated superstreet from the ND Tollway to 288

Superstreet can get done.  Holding out for a perfect full freeway may mean it never happens.  Go with practical, affordable, and much faster.

This is how a fully grade separated, 70 mph 114 from I35W to 287 gets done.  The 240'+ ROW is already there the entire way.  There are far too many roadway expansion needs in Texas, and perfect is the enemy of the good.  Get the affordable compromises built and more lane miles added faster.  I don't give a flip if it never gets an interstate number, give me all overpasses and no stoplights.

[MaxConcrete]

So looking at the expensive takings required for a full size freeway on the Denton County side, I figured it would probably never happen.  But the 5 overpasses and related intersections being built fit within a 240' ROW  (including adjacent sidewalks), so a fully grade separated superstreet concept is doable (and probably the realistic end game being planned). 

The corridor study completed in November 2021 recommended a full freeway on a right-of-way width of 350-400 feet.
See page 15 of this document.

You can see the planned right of way in this document starting on page 2823. As you can see, there is some shifting of the corridor to the north and south to avoid certain properties, for example the high school.

So the current improvements are an interim step toward the ultimate planned freeway. As you mention, the freeway won't happen anytime soon but TxDOT and Denton County should (hopefully) start protecting the right-of-way corridor.

[Bobby5280]

It's too bad the interim steps being built, such as the overpasses over intersections, may ultimately have to be torn down or at least seriously altered in order to accommodate a proper freeway with full width lanes and proper shoulders.

[Road Hog]

It's too bad the interim steps being built, such as the overpasses over intersections, may ultimately have to be torn down or at least seriously altered in order to accommodate a proper freeway with full width lanes and proper shoulders.

That's a result of the bygone days of Texas government responding to needs and sensitivities of residents.That woke stuff is long gone.

[The Road Warrior]

So looking at the expensive takings required for a full size freeway on the Denton County side, I figured it would probably never happen.  But the 5 overpasses and related intersections being built fit within a 240' ROW  (including adjacent sidewalks), so a fully grade separated superstreet concept is doable (and probably the realistic end game being planned). 

The corridor study completed in November 2021 recommended a full freeway on a right-of-way width of 350-400 feet.
See page 15 of this document.

You can see the planned right of way in this document starting on page 2823. As you can see, there is some shifting of the corridor to the north and south to avoid certain properties, for example the high school.

So the current improvements are an interim step toward the ultimate planned freeway. As you mention, the freeway won't happen anytime soon but TxDOT and Denton County should (hopefully) start protecting the right-of-way corridor.

There's no right of way to protect. The entire 380 corridor is almost entirely developed at this point, with the exception of the segment in Collin County around the tollway. That's the segment that's currently being planned to be turned into a freeway, as part the freeway bypass they are building around McKinney. At this point, its way too late to be talking about protecting ROW in Denton County; development already directly fronts the highway. They would have had to start doing that over a decade ago, but once again, Texas allows development to preempt them. As a result, I don't see the Denton portion ever becoming a full freeway at this point. There's simply no ROW to build ramps, frontage roads, and a three lane freeway through most of that segment. They didn't build overpasses over all the major intersections with this project, which would have been the most important step.

There's still hope that the Collin Freeway portion gets built, and that alone will still require expensive property acquisition. The only way I see them building any freeway in Denton County is if they reroute 380 north of Denton. The 288 loop is already limited access up there; all they need to do is build a freeway linking that existing limited access portion to 380 east of Denton proper; that's the only portion of 380 that lacks extensive development, on account of being mostly forest and lowlands next to Lewisville Lake. That's the only portion I see getting built. I could see them maybe trying to build a freeway bypass to the north between the 288 Loop and the McKinney Bypass. That might still be possible if plans for the outer loop around DFW fail to materialize, but the land to do that is fast becoming developed.