More US 31 upgrades between Indy and South Bend

Started by monty, July 12, 2019, 04:23:31 PM

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I-55

Quote from: monty on April 09, 2025, 08:30:36 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on April 09, 2025, 07:41:36 AMIt'll be interesting if INDOT designed their right in / right out intersections like this, at least with full acceleration and deceleration lanes.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/nPsLCTk6kuA3TcXz9

As seen here on US-24 east of Fort Wayne, they consider this a "freeway" based on the speed limit being 65 mph here.
The ProPEL study seems to suggest the accel and decel lanes. You raise an interesting point regarding speed limit. I have not been able to learn if the "upgrades" will result in a 65 mph speed limit. That would be welcomed.

They plan on doing a RIRO on US 30 at Kroemer Road on the west side of Ft Wayne that also has this length of auxiliary lane. That will be closer to the design of the 276th street RIRO as there won't be an overpass like there is on 24 at Bruick.

As for the second point, I see INDOT waiting until the entire corridor from SR 38 to SR 931 meets "INDOT Freeway" criteria before increasing the speed limit all at once. Part of why I've been a proponent of making the corridor interstate grade to Kokomo now is so that the limit can go to 70 if Kokomo asks for a 3di when they get a freeway connection to I-465. Until that happens or state law changes 65 mph will be as high as it gets.
Purdue Civil Engineering '24
Quote from: I-55 on April 13, 2025, 09:39:41 PMThe correct question is "if ARDOT hasn't signed it, why does Google show it?" and the answer as usual is "because Google Maps signs stuff incorrectly all the time"


monty

I took another look at the ProPEL study. They have five study options from nothing to full freeway. The recommended options for Tipton County contain the reduced conflict and RIRO intersections. The busier county roads received the accel and decel lanes while the most rural roads had the simple RIRO "T road" termination.
The study does forward the full freeway design as an option in the southern Tipton / Hamilton segment. This is a trend for most of the northern segments as well. The Grissom ARB area and the stoplight just north of US 24 have been constant thorns for INDOT and locals due to space restrictions. 
https://www.google.com/gasearch?q=propel%20us%2031&source=sh/x/gs/m2/5
monty

I-55

#777
My impression from the PEL studies is that freeway would be the desired alternative for most of 30 and 31 if not for money. Freeway seems to only be recommended on segments where it is absolutely necessary (or otherwise inexpensive) to do so to reach free flow conditions, but many of the "expressway" options still create interchanges at state route junctions (like on US 30 in Pierceton and Larwill). For freeway I'll say recommended means "you need to spend money" and carried forward means "if you want to spend money go ahead by all means."

US 30 had 3 segments recommended for freeway: Plymouth, Warsaw, and Whitley east. Plymouth and Warsaw are pretty self explanatory, as the only way to get these sections to free flow is by full freeway conversion (too many stoplights to make RIRO's and RCI's have adequate LOS). Whitley east is likely recommended because of the high truck turning volumes into warehouses and the fact that the SDI and Allen West segments will be (mostly) freeway (INDOT already has plans). Whitley east also has the highest volume (25-29k AADT) of the US 30 corridor and 85th percentile speeds of 68-73 mph.

US 31 has zero recommended freeway segments. Worth noting that the South Argos section was excluded as INDOT has freeway upgrades already planned there. It is possible that INDOT has their own plans for US 31 in Tipton County (evidenced by their ROW acquisition) but the study only "carries forward" the freeway alternative without recommending it anywhere.

I could see US 31 getting the following freeway upgrades based off the current status quo:

Westfield-Kokomo: easy pick since there's continued work to improve this corridor. I think INDOT will ignore the findings of the report and go full freeway on 31 for this stretch

The rest of Marshall County: since the South Argos section has freeway plans upgraded (and FHWA rejected the initial RIRO interchange alternatives proposed at SR 10 in favor of a full interchange) I imagine that the remaining section between SR 10 and US 30 will also receive upgrades. Since there will also be at grade railroad crossings removed on this stretch the freeway upgrade makes sense for continuity purposes.

Kokomo-Peru: The last stretch that might get upgrades would be this one. Would be difficult to pull off with the forementioned space issues near Grissom. However with the volume and some of the intersection geometry it wouldn't surprise me if INDOT wanted to complete the freeway to US 24 (where a decent amount of traffic drops off).

Once these are complete, there might be more noise to be made about upgrading the rest of the corridor to freeway. However, that would be looking 15-30 years down the road.
Purdue Civil Engineering '24
Quote from: I-55 on April 13, 2025, 09:39:41 PMThe correct question is "if ARDOT hasn't signed it, why does Google show it?" and the answer as usual is "because Google Maps signs stuff incorrectly all the time"

sprjus4

It's probably reasonable to say that freeway upgrades shouldn't be the reason the speed limit is modified, and vice versa. But it will be.

The current proposals seem reasonable - the entire corridor simply does not have the traffic counts nor warrants to be upgraded 100% to limited access. Many sections will suffice with limited upgrades as they are proposed to be.

With that being said, the speed limit should still be increased to 65 mph or 70 mph on these "improved" segments (even if not full freeway). But until lawmakers decide to leave that to the hands of the engineers (which will never happen), we're stuck with the current situation.

ITB

#779
In news tidbits, developers received approval from the town of Sheridan to construct a large 126-acre theme park near the northwest corner of US 31 and SR 38. The park is expected to attract 500,000 visitors a year.

Also, up north in Warsaw, Slate Auto, a manufacturer of light electric trucks, announced plans to convert a former printing plant to an assembly/manufacturing facility. The plant is expected to employ around 2,000.

These projects will likely add significant traffic to US 31, particularly the theme park, which is bound to attract visitors from a wide area, including likely most of northern Indiana. And since US 31 is the main arterial backbone for the region, it's a good bet, too, the highway will see increased truck traffic traveling to and from the new EV plant in Warsaw.

Terry Shea

Quote from: ITB on May 07, 2025, 02:26:58 PMIn news tidbits, developers received approval from the town of Sheridan to construct a large 126-acre theme park near the northwest corner of US 31 and SR 38. The park is expected to attract 500,000 visitors a year.

Also, up north in Warsaw, Slate Auto, a manufacturer of light electric trucks, announced plans to convert a former printing plant to an assembly/manufacturing facility. The plant is expected to employ around 2,000.

These projects will likely add significant traffic to US 31, particularly the theme park, which is bound to attract visitors from a wide area, including likely most of northern Indiana. And since US 31 is the main arterial backbone for the region, it's a good bet, too, the highway will see increased truck traffic traveling to and from the new EV plant in Warsaw.
One might think that would be a hurry up call to complete the freeway between SR 38 and SR 26 at the very least.

monty

I drove US31 from Westfield to US24 this afternoon around 4:00 and was reminded how busy the highway is. Lots of traffic and hard driving drivers running 65-75 mph (in 55 and 60 and 65 mph zones) Traffic levels dropped north of Kokomo but still a busy highway. Observed the median cable being installed starting at IN26 and the project moving south. Utilities being installed (Water-sewer) nearly constant in Hamilton County and also at IN28. I also travelled west on IN 32 from Westfield to Lebanon. It is amazing how that entire IN 32 corridor is growing with people and commerce to serve them. Deviating a bit from US31, but I can foresee some sort of outer belt type connector from Pendleton to Cicero to Sheridan to Lebanon joining I69 to US31 to I65 to serve this area. I465 pressure is going to increase. US31 is in the middle of it all.
monty

silverback1065

Quote from: monty on May 07, 2025, 09:45:04 PMI drove US31 from Westfield to US24 this afternoon around 4:00 and was reminded how busy the highway is. Lots of traffic and hard driving drivers running 65-75 mph (in 55 and 60 and 65 mph zones) Traffic levels dropped north of Kokomo but still a busy highway. Observed the median cable being installed starting at IN26 and the project moving south. Utilities being installed (Water-sewer) nearly constant in Hamilton County and also at IN28. I also travelled west on IN 32 from Westfield to Lebanon. It is amazing how that entire IN 32 corridor is growing with people and commerce to serve them. Deviating a bit from US31, but I can foresee some sort of outer belt type connector from Pendleton to Cicero to Sheridan to Lebanon joining I69 to US31 to I65 to serve this area. I465 pressure is going to increase. US31 is in the middle of it all.

This sounds almost like the already studied and killed bypass of 465 I think it was called the intercounty connector or something like that, I remember it being in the news like 10 years ago. I believe it was just from 69 in the north to 65 in the south. It was supposed to be a toll road. I think the only portion that was deemed somewhat useful was connecting 69 and 70 along the 9 corridor.

TheCleanDemon

Quote from: silverback1065 on May 08, 2025, 08:21:33 AM
Quote from: monty on May 07, 2025, 09:45:04 PMI drove US31 from Westfield to US24 this afternoon around 4:00 and was reminded how busy the highway is. Lots of traffic and hard driving drivers running 65-75 mph (in 55 and 60 and 65 mph zones) Traffic levels dropped north of Kokomo but still a busy highway. Observed the median cable being installed starting at IN26 and the project moving south. Utilities being installed (Water-sewer) nearly constant in Hamilton County and also at IN28. I also travelled west on IN 32 from Westfield to Lebanon. It is amazing how that entire IN 32 corridor is growing with people and commerce to serve them. Deviating a bit from US31, but I can foresee some sort of outer belt type connector from Pendleton to Cicero to Sheridan to Lebanon joining I69 to US31 to I65 to serve this area. I465 pressure is going to increase. US31 is in the middle of it all.

This sounds almost like the already studied and killed bypass of 465 I think it was called the intercounty connector or something like that, I remember it being in the news like 10 years ago. I believe it was just from 69 in the north to 65 in the south. It was supposed to be a toll road. I think the only portion that was deemed somewhat useful was connecting 69 and 70 along the 9 corridor.

The originally proposed "Commerce Connector" was all the way back in 2006. It would have made a J-shape linking 70 just west of Mooresville, Martinsville, Franklin, Shelbyville, Greenfield, and Pendleton. The idea has come back up again a couple of times since then, but I don't think we'll see another 465-like interstate build along that route.

A similar route north of Indy would have to pass maybe just north of the 32 corridor? Seems very uneccessary.

The Ghostbuster

Even if an outer loop of Indianapolis was constructed, how well utilized might it be? Depending on the corridor, it would either be a boon of a bypass, or a boondoggle of an underutilized corridor.

silverback1065

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 08, 2025, 01:55:57 PMEven if an outer loop of Indianapolis was constructed, how well utilized might it be? Depending on the corridor, it would either be a boon of a bypass, or a boondoggle of an underutilized corridor.

I think that's exactly why it was killed. it was very expensive and didn't prove useful enough to construct.

monty

Quote from: silverback1065 on May 08, 2025, 04:35:34 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 08, 2025, 01:55:57 PMEven if an outer loop of Indianapolis was constructed, how well utilized might it be? Depending on the corridor, it would either be a boon of a bypass, or a boondoggle of an underutilized corridor.

I think that's exactly why it was killed. it was very expensive and didn't prove useful enough to construct.

Interesting. I appreciate learning this. Thinking if that outer loop was built, it would be quite useful today with the population boom in Fishers, Noblesville, Westfield, Zionsville, and Lebanon. IN32 is fast becoming an Allisonville Road urban corridor instead of the rural connector two lane highway it once was.

Driving US31 has really become a less desirable route to key places like the Indy Int'l Airport (during peak hours) from Kokomo but there are not any decent options to avoid I465. As someone who lives due north of Indy, I am always seeking routes to avoid all the congestion that is the I465 beltway.
monty

silverback1065

Quote from: monty on May 08, 2025, 09:58:52 PM
Quote from: silverback1065 on May 08, 2025, 04:35:34 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on May 08, 2025, 01:55:57 PMEven if an outer loop of Indianapolis was constructed, how well utilized might it be? Depending on the corridor, it would either be a boon of a bypass, or a boondoggle of an underutilized corridor.

I think that's exactly why it was killed. it was very expensive and didn't prove useful enough to construct.

Interesting. I appreciate learning this. Thinking if that outer loop was built, it would be quite useful today with the population boom in Fishers, Noblesville, Westfield, Zionsville, and Lebanon. IN32 is fast becoming an Allisonville Road urban corridor instead of the rural connector two lane highway it once was.

Driving US31 has really become a less desirable route to key places like the Indy Int'l Airport (during peak hours) from Kokomo but there are not any decent options to avoid I465. As someone who lives due north of Indy, I am always seeking routes to avoid all the congestion that is the I465 beltway.

465 will eventually get better. INDOT announced plans to upgrade the 31/465 interchange and eventually 465 proper from 31 back to 86th st on the nw side.

ITB

#788
To chime in, I tend to think Hamilton County will soon need a major east-west, cross-county highway. The county's population is booming. Last year more than 3,000 permits were issued for new homes. In time, State Roads 32 and 38 are bound to become traffic infested nightmares, laden with numerous roundabouts and lights. If Hamilton officials have any inkling to want a cross-county highway, it's important for them to acquire the right-of-way now before development chews up the available land.

The road layout in the Indianapolis area reminds me of the similar pattern in the Washington, DC region, where I lived for 20 years. Both regions have only one major circular highway — I-495, aka the Beltway, in Washington, and I-465 in Indianapolis. In the Washington area, proposals have cropped up from time to time for an outer Beltway, featuring another crossing of the Potomac River, particularly in the western area of the region. About 30 years ago, one proposal had a highway drawn very close to my grandparent's property north of Leesburg. My grandmother, at the time, was very anxious. Nothing came of the proposal, however; it just faded away, much to her relief.

The Beltway, which is eight lanes in most areas and 12 lanes along a significant section in Virginia (4 lanes are HOT lanes), crosses the Potomac in two locations — in the west with the American Legion Bridge between Bethesda and Mclean, and in the south with the Woodrow Wilson Bridge between Alexandria, VA and Prince George's County in Maryland. In 1998, there was jumper on the Woodrow Wilson Bridge, and officials closed all traffic to the bridge for more than five hours. The result was an unprecedented region-wide traffic jam that lasted hours. Some roads were so jammed up progress was only about a quarter in an hour. This is no exaggeration. I, personally, was in it. Long-time traffic reporter Bob Marbourg described the situation as "without comparison."

Long story short. Officials on the both sides of the Potomac, in Maryland and Virginia, are well aware another crossing of the Potomac is needed. Virginia authorities have wanted to build, the Maryland people, lukewarm at best. The most logical place for another crossing in the west. But for reasons that are complex, political and environmental, among others, it's never happened and may never happen. Instead, lanes have been added to the Beltway, and now, plans are in the works to widen the American Legion Bridge, again. Also, in the meantime over the years, major cross-county highways have either been built or upgraded on both sides of the Potomac. In Virginia, these include the Fairfax County Parkway, Route 123, and Route 28. On the Maryland side, there's MD 200, an extension of I-370, and, to the east in Prince George's County, US 301, an older road. These roads are, in some respects, outer beltways.

Of all these roads, MD 200, also known as the Intercounty Connector (ICC), was the last to be constructed. A good number of people in Montgomery County fought tooth and nail against this road, namely because it passed through already developed areas. It took years and years for authorities to push the project toward the finish line.

This is the cautionary tale for Hamilton County. Once development has occurred it's very difficult to build a highway through the built-up areas. By 2040, without a major cross-county arterial, residents in Hamilton are likely going to have quite a time traveling cross-county. Frustration and anger is bound to mount. The issues will be mobility and safety. It behooves officials to start planning solutions now.

   

TheCleanDemon

There are two key differences here:

1) Washington DC metro area has triple the population of Indy metro
2) The Potomoc River creates choke points unlike anything in the Indy area.

I am skeptical we're going to see places like Sheridan and Cicero explode like Carmel. The only place that might make sense is the 32 corridor (with a Westfield bypass) or 146th St getting some sort of Keystone Parkway Treatment. I don't see it otherwise.

cjw2001

146th is already getting grade separated interchanges at Allisonville Road and Hazel Dell.  Not unlikely for that trend to continue in the future at additional intersections.

tdindy88

Likewise SR 32 is being widened to four lanes between Westfield and Noblesville with roundabouts at the major intersections. So there should be some added capacity there. But I agree that 146th Street is where that cross-county "highway" is going to be.

ITB

#792
Quote from: TheCleanDemon on May 09, 2025, 04:09:43 PMThere are two key differences here:

1) Washington DC metro area has triple the population of Indy metro
2) The Potomoc River creates choke points unlike anything in the Indy area.

I am skeptical we're going to see places like Sheridan and Cicero explode like Carmel. The only place that might make sense is the 32 corridor (with a Westfield bypass) or 146th St getting some sort of Keystone Parkway Treatment. I don't see it otherwise.

Yes, to be sure, the DC and Indianapolis regions are different in size and character. And, yes, the Potomac River does create choke points that are not found in the Indianapolis area. I chose to compare the two because each has only one major circular highway.

As already noted, the population of Hamilton County is rapidly growing. Between 1990 and 2020, it more than tripled:

1990    108,936
2000    182,740
2010    274,569
2020    347,467

If this pace of growth continues, and so far this decade it has, Hamilton will have more than 500,000 residents by 2040. Significant development is already pushing into Sheridan. In 2024, 131 new homes were permitted. Another 30 have been permitted through March of this year. Sheridan is no longer a small, rural town. It's becoming a suburb. The change is underway now.

Each year for the past 30 years, hundreds of acres in Hamilton County have been converted from agricultural rural to residential housing. The trend is showing no signs of slowing. Last year, 3,014 new homes were permitted. Three thousand! Development on that scale eats up a lot of land. The permit numbers were 2,719 and 2,378 for the years 2023 and 2022, respectively. In 2021, the number was a staggering 3,344.

Development is steadily pushing north, northwest, and northeast. It should be noted that many Hamilton officials appear to be enthusiastic backers of development, as evidenced by the county's aggressive expansion of its sewer and water infrastructure.

North-south mobility is handled by US 31, I-69, SR 37, and to the west, US 421 and I-65. It's the east-west, cross-county, travel that is going to be problematic in the years ahead.


   


TheCleanDemon

HamCo tripled at a time when there was a lot of available land adjacent to Indianapolis and people made the move out of Indy to that neighboring available land. Marion County has stabilized a bit, and there isn't an abundance of available land just across the border anymore. Even looking at the growth numbers you shared, HamCo's slowest growth was the previous decade. It isn't likely to just keep tripling, the factors that caused the triple jump don't exist anymore. Sheridan can be another Westfield, sure, but there is still going to be that gap east of Sheridan. Indy Metro as a while would need to accelerate growth before I buy into HamCo seeing Carmel/Fishers style growth in its northern half.

monty

"Hamilton County will continue to lead the state in growth, with an increase of more than 180,500 residents. Hamilton County will likely overtake Allen County and Lake County during this stretch and become the state's second most populous county with a total of approximately 529,500 residents in 2050." -IBRC
monty

silverback1065

Hamilton County already has several east west corridors that function this way: 146, 176 (SR 32), 236, and 276. The county has been upgrading each of these corridors except for 176 (SR 32) INDOT is doing that.

jnewkirk77

Quote from: silverback1065 on May 11, 2025, 08:45:46 AMHamilton County already has several east west corridors that function this way: 146, 176 (SR 32), 236, and 276. The county has been upgrading each of these corridors except for 176 (SR 32) INDOT is doing that.

What is INDOT doing on 32? Are they going to widen it all the way to Lebanon?

tdindy88

Quote from: jnewkirk77 on May 11, 2025, 10:04:50 AM
Quote from: silverback1065 on May 11, 2025, 08:45:46 AMHamilton County already has several east west corridors that function this way: 146, 176 (SR 32), 236, and 276. The county has been upgrading each of these corridors except for 176 (SR 32) INDOT is doing that.

What is INDOT doing on 32? Are they going to widen it all the way to Lebanon?

They plan on widening 32 between Westfield and Noblesville. Info can be found here: https://www.improvetomove32.com

They are already widening 32 through Westfield itself along with improvements that were made in Noblesville in recent years.

As of now there's no plans to widen it from west of Westfield to Lebanon. Hell, there are plans to improve 32 between Lebanon and Crawfordsville, but not east of Lebanon.

cjw2001

The video presentation for the public hearing for the Level Up 31 project has been posted.





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