Best Airports to travel in, out, or through

[Mdcastle]

What's bizarre about two terminals at MSP?

There is a proposal that would greatly expand Terminal 2 and add the kind of amenites Terminal 1 has; under that proposal Terminal 1 would be for exclusive use of Delta and it's partners and all the other airlines would be moved to Terminal 2. (Still miss the names Lindbergh and Humphrey which were stripped from the freeway signs).

[flowmotion]

What's bizarre about two terminals at MSP?

The connection between them is slow and poorly designed. Terminal 2 also has its own set of parking ramps, rental car facilities, etc.

It was probably OK when Humphrey was the "charter terminal", but the conspiracy theory is Northwest/Delta wanted to 'exile' the low cost carriers (SWA) over there.

[on_wisconsin]

The Humphrey and Lindbergh buildings also have an LRT line connecting them so inter-terminal transit shouldn't be that hard.

[Mdcastle]

Delta is still very vocal about it's desire to exile everyone else to Humphrey. The other airlines are for the most part keeping quiet because they have exlusive terminals at their own hubs. Humphrey turned out to be the discount terminal more by chance, since Sun Country was already there when it switched from being a charter operator to a discount carrier, and because the terminal was just expanded that's where gates were available when SWA wanted in and SC had established it as the de facto discount terminal.

Apparently the FHWA is responsible for the disappearance of the Humphrey and Lindbergh names. When they redid the signs to add which airlines served which terminal spelling out the names was too much text on the signs.

Actually, transferring was easier before light rail. Instead of a shuttle bus that takes you from the front of one terminal to the other you have to take a tram to the LRT station, ride LRT, walk through a long parking garage with a number of level changes in the whole process.

[realjd]

What's bizarre about two terminals at MSP?

The connection between them is slow and poorly designed. Terminal 2 also has its own set of parking ramps, rental car facilities, etc.

It was probably OK when Humphrey was the "charter terminal", but the conspiracy theory is Northwest/Delta wanted to 'exile' the low cost carriers (SWA) over there.

But honestly, how many people connect to LCCs like SWA at MSP? I'll bet I could count on one hand the number of passengers changing from DL to a LCC at MSP. That kind of routing just doesn't happen.

[formulanone]

It likely would occur to international travelers, due to cabotage rules, and/or customs.

[flowmotion]

Also I could see business travelers taking Southwest to MSP and then having to go over to Terminal 1 for a regional flight to Bemidji or where ever.

[florida]

I might be biased, but I really like the design of SFO. Very short walk from curbside to the security gates, parking is convenient, short walk between terminals, corridors are wide, and the airport is only 10-15 minutes from downtown.

I do like the design also. I worked at Orlando International (MCO) and it was a pain to use the shuttle to get to the gate areas, after you'd get held up in the TSA line by flight crews or regular passengers utilizing the employee lane.

What I don't understand about SFO is confusion on how to get to the International Terminal.

[realjd]

Also I could see business travelers taking Southwest to MSP and then having to go over to Terminal 1 for a regional flight to Bemidji or where ever.

None of us business travelers would put up with an itinerary like that, and the travel agencies wouldn't ever book it. Southwest doesn't codeshare with Delta so it would have to be booked as two separate tickets, luggage couldn't be checked through, etc. We also tend to be less cost conscious than a leisure traveler so we are usually less inclined to go to great lengths to save a couple hundred dollars by constructing convoluted itineraries like that.

[formulanone]

...a quick check shows Delta (a hub at MSP) does indeed go to Bemidji. CRJ200 Time!

If anything, Southwest Airlines wouldn't provide service to an airport like that, because they're not in the regional airline service, to my knowledge.

[Mdcastle]

As a data point I looked up what tickets cost from Minneapolis to Bemidji, and from Chicago to Bemidji. It's like 15 bucks more to go all the way from Chicago as opposed to Minneapolis, so even if you bought a "wanna-get-away" fare it makes no sense financially as well as no sense logistically.

As far as international travelers, there is a customs point at Humphrey for any airline that wants to use it (only IcelandAir does). I think you'd find similar fare structure where it's cheaper just to go wherever you're going on a legacy airline rather than transfer.

(I am kind of disappointed SWA is ditching their AirTran 717s rather than continuing to serve smaller markets. It would be nice to fly into Asheville, although Greenville, SC isn't that hard of a drive and the two times I've been there I've actually flown into Nashville and Raleigh in order to cover more territory. Delta wants over $600 for a ticket there, no free bags included)

[oscar]

(I am kind of disappointed SWA is ditching their AirTran 707s rather than continuing to serve smaller markets. It would be nice to fly into Asheville, although Greenville, SC isn't that hard of a drive and the two times I've been there I've actually flown into Nashville and Raleigh in order to cover more territory. Delta wants over $600 for a ticket there, no free bags included)

Yeah, but SWA understandably wants an all-737 fleet, so it can train pilots, stock parts, and develop maintenance expertise for just one line of similar planes.  It could use its smaller 737s to serve smaller markets, probably more efficiently than with 717s that are better-sized for those markets but, as original McDonnell-Douglas planes, probably have little in common with the 737s.

Too bad that the AirTran 717s seem to be all headed for Delta, with none finding a good home in Hawaiian Airlines' all-717 interisland fleet.

[formulanone]

I figured that SWA would have kept the smaller 717s for those routes that don't require 150 passengers (I think about 110 fit on board), but I've also heard that they're ditching some of those less-profitable routes, so it makes sense.

Delta manages to maintain a rather active fleet of older machinery...

[realjd]

The 717's aren't going to Hawaii because it isn't exactly trivial getting a short range jet like a 717 to a locale like Hawaii, the most remote air destination in the world. Google it. They usually have to fill the passenger compartment with giant fuel tanks, ETOPS waivers, etc.

Delta is using the 717's to replace the ancient DC9's they inherited from NWA, and they're phasing out most CRJ2 flights in favor of larger RJs (CRJ9 and E175 mostly) and 717's.

SWA wants to maintain an all 737 fleet. It makes maintenance and scheduling significantly cheaper. And a 737 is a pretty small plane so I don't expect SWA to reduce service to that many smaller stations.

[flowmotion]

None of us business travelers would put up with an itinerary like that, and the travel agencies wouldn't ever book it. Southwest doesn't codeshare with Delta so it would have to be booked as two separate tickets, luggage couldn't be checked through, etc. We also tend to be less cost conscious than a leisure traveler so we are usually less inclined to go to great lengths to save a couple hundred dollars by constructing convoluted itineraries like that.

Bemidji was a contrived example. But, unfortunately, I have worked for businesses that would book a flight like this to save a few hundred bucks. In the old Denver airport, I once ran from one side to another to barely make a transfer connection. (After that, I insisted on non-stops.)

Outside of the MSP area, nobody understands the vast division between terminals 1 & 2. I'm certain it must have bitten a few travelers, as it's just a lousy setup.

[flowmotion]

What I don't understand about SFO is confusion on how to get to the International Terminal.

Never heard about anyone confused by this.  Other than some domestic airlines using the International terminal, it seems to be very well signed.

[deathtopumpkins]

I figured that SWA would have kept the smaller 717s for those routes that don't require 150 passengers (I think about 110 fit on board), but I've also heard that they're ditching some of those less-profitable routes, so it makes sense.

Yep, after buying out AirTran they started ditching some routes. The only times I've ever flown have been between PHF (Newport News/Williamsburg Int'l) and BOS, which AirTran operated with 717s and then Southwest ditched about a year ago. It really came as a surprise to me considering the flights were the only nonstop flights between Hampton Roads (none at ORF) and Boston and usually sold out, but I guess with them charging as low as $49 for the flight even sold out it can't have made very much money.

[roadman65]

I just traveled recently through Houston Hobby and I thought it was convenient.  The terminal is small and not far to the gates from the street.  Also, nicely located to I-45 for easy access.  The only downside is the terminal closes overnight and the airlines are limited.   However, for the SWA and Airtran, it is a very great thing as they dominate the facility.

[SSOWorld]

Here is the list of shortcuts MSP has in Lindburgh*cough*Terminal 1:
* Moving walkways in both wings (A/B/C and H) and in a corridor/bridge connecting them midway down Concourse C right by the A/B split.
* A tram that runs along C to A/B from the main terminal hub that's within security.

I don't know about Humphrey*cough*Terminal 2 though - and you have to exit the secure zone to get to it.

The People Mover in Chicago also is outside the security zone. I'd just hot foot it between the United and American hubs if connecting that way, but you have to exit the zone to get to the International terminal.

My favorites are:4
Origin/Destination
* Milwaukee (Mitchell - MKE) - Cheap to fly out of there now (Frontier's my preferred but they don't go everywhere).  I drive 3 hours to get there though.
* Madison (MSN) - Small airport serves most of the major airlines, less drive but cost more due to puddle jumpers (a.k.a regional airlines).  Only Delta flys directly there last time I checked.
* Fargo, Missoula, Spokane, Philly - basically any airport where the rental car desks are right in the terminal.  Seems all of the larger airports are joining the off-site rental car center bandwagon - especially those in California (SAC, SFO, OAK, LAX(?)), PHX, LAS.  Hell Detroit has its desks at terminal as does MSP (Lindburgh - Sorry Huey).  where you leave security, go to the counter, pick up the key and walk out to your car (DTW and MSP would fail here due to shuttles). The Rental car center at PHX made car rates skyrocket.  Granted it's a nice building (all the cars are in a parking garage).

The best connecting airport I'd say would have to be MSP or DEN.  Forget ORD!  My experience - especially with American - was not fun.