Interstate 280/California Questions

[portlandexpos04]

Hi everyone, I've been lurking on these forums for a little while and finally decided to register.
I have a couple questions regarding I-280 in the Bay Area.  I commute this every day to work and back, and noticed a few things I wasn't sure of that maybe some of you could provide some insight on.

1.)  I noticed that a couple off-ramps prior to the SR-92 interchange in the Northbound direction, there is an off- and on-ramp that is signed "Road Closed".  Specifically, this location: http://s10.postimage.org/ycibrnyix/I280.jpg
Judging by the aerial image, it looks like this ramp terminates at a turnaround at the top of the hill.  Was this a "Vista Point", or something else?  Anyone know why it was closed and how long it has been closed for?  It seems to only be used for CHP for enforcement activity these days.

2.) When driving southbound on I-280 in San Francisco between 4th & King and 25th Street/Cesar Chavez, I noticed that there is a faded out diamond marker in what looked like an HOV lane that is currently not in operation (see image here: http://s15.postimage.org/tnlilwb8r/I2802.jpg).  Was this an HOV lane?  Or a bus-only lane?  Does anyone know why it was re-striped as a shoulder, and how long the HOV lane was in operation for (dates)?

3.) This last question isn't related to I-280 specifically, but California in general.  I've noticed that in California, freeway mainline segments in urban areas are not lit, only the areas around on- and off-ramps are generally lit.  In other states, such as Oregon, Washington, Illinois, Nevada, etc., the entire freeway mainline is lit in urban areas.  Is there a specific reason that California does not do the same?

Thanks!

[TheStranger]

1.)  I noticed that a couple off-ramps prior to the SR-92 interchange in the Northbound direction, there is an off- and on-ramp that is signed "Road Closed".  Specifically, this location: http://s10.postimage.org/ycibrnyix/I280.jpg
Judging by the aerial image, it looks like this ramp terminates at a turnaround at the top of the hill.  Was this a "Vista Point", or something else?  Anyone know why it was closed and how long it has been closed for?  It seems to only be used for CHP for enforcement activity these days.

It's definitely a former vista point - I recall it being open in the late 90s, but closed by 2005 or so.

[agentsteel53]

It's definitely a former vista point - I recall it being open in the late 90s, but closed by 2005 or so.

any idea why it was closed?  looks like a perfectly nice place to put a vista point.

[Kniwt]

any idea why it was closed?  looks like a perfectly nice place to put a vista point.

From 1996:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/1996/04/12/PN29499.DTL

Thousands of motorists can no longer stop to admire the Peninsula's natural beauty at a popular Interstate 280 vista point because gang members and other seedy characters made it unsafe, authorities said.

Two other vista points will also remain off-limits from sundown to sunrise because of troubles at the scenic stops. Those troubles came to a head 18 months ago when a suspected gang-related shooting put two young men in the hospital.

[portlandexpos04]

any idea why it was closed?  looks like a perfectly nice place to put a vista point.

From 1996:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/1996/04/12/PN29499.DTL

Thousands of motorists can no longer stop to admire the Peninsula's natural beauty at a popular Interstate 280 vista point because gang members and other seedy characters made it unsafe, authorities said.

Two other vista points will also remain off-limits from sundown to sunrise because of troubles at the scenic stops. Those troubles came to a head 18 months ago when a suspected gang-related shooting put two young men in the hospital.

Wow thanks for the info, that's really unfortunate that it had to be closed down due to the idiotic behavior of a few people. 

Any ideas on my other questions?

Thanks!

[Kniwt]

Here is the official answer to the "why are so many California freeways unlit" question. The short version: Because Caltrans doesn't believe it's needed.
http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/traffops/signtech/signdel/chp9/chap9.htm#Section_7

On freeways, highway safety lighting should be installed at particular points in interchange areas. This lighting serves to illuminate areas of potential vehicle conflict and to delineate exit ramps, entrance ramps, and island noses.Except where required by unusual freeway geometrics, lighting should not be installed unless the traffic volumes shown in Section 9-07.2 are met. The high standard of signing, markings, and delineation now being provided makes it possible in such situations to defer the installation of lighting facilities until required by increased traffic.

... Freeway Interchange safety lighting is considered to be warranted under either of the following conditions:
a. Where the total sum of the ADT ramp traffic entering and leaving the freeway within the interchange area exceeds 5,000 under urban conditions, 3,000 under suburban conditions and 1,000 under rural conditions. The above figures refer to the total sum of the ADT for the normal four ramps at an interchange. Where the number of ramps connecting with the freeway is less than four, the above total sum of ADT may be reduced proportionately.
b. Where the ADT on the freeway exceeds 25,000 for urban conditions, 20,000 for suburban conditions and 10,000 for rural conditions.

[roadfro]

3.) This last question isn't related to I-280 specifically, but California in general.  I've noticed that in California, freeway mainline segments in urban areas are not lit, only the areas around on- and off-ramps are generally lit.  In other states, such as Oregon, Washington, Illinois, Nevada, etc., the entire freeway mainline is lit in urban areas.  Is there a specific reason that California does not do the same?

Not a for-sure response, but my guess would be cost. It costs a lot to light up the freeways, both in initial construction costs of putting in lighting infrastructure, but also powering and maintaining the lighting. Other agencies tackle this cost in other ways, like using better sheeting methods on overhead signage to avoid needing to light it at night.

Lighting of freeways, even in urban areas, is not something that is required. There have been studies that indicate lit roadways can be safer or have less accidents...I believe NDOT has cited this as a reason for adding lighting in the past, specifically when they began putting in more high-mast lighting in the Vegas area.

[agentsteel53]

meh.  planet earth is dangerous.  let's fence it off and prevent people from living on it.

[portlandexpos04]

meh.  planet earth is dangerous.  let's fence it off and prevent people from living on it.

I was really just curious as to why California is different in this regard than every other state I've been in.  I wasn't advocating lighting one way or the other.  Especially being that I was just in Vegas and saw all of the new high-mast lighting that they've recently installed.

[agentsteel53]

meh.  planet earth is dangerous.  let's fence it off and prevent people from living on it.

I was really just curious as to why California is different in this regard than every other state I've been in.  I wasn't advocating lighting one way or the other.  Especially being that I was just in Vegas and saw all of the new high-mast lighting that they've recently installed.

oh, I should've quoted for context.  I was talking about closing off the scenic area.

[portlandexpos04]

meh.  planet earth is dangerous.  let's fence it off and prevent people from living on it.

I was really just curious as to why California is different in this regard than every other state I've been in.  I wasn't advocating lighting one way or the other.  Especially being that I was just in Vegas and saw all of the new high-mast lighting that they've recently installed.

oh, I should've quoted for context.  I was talking about closing off the scenic area.

Ah, okay that makes more sense 

[kkt]

2.) When driving southbound on I-280 in San Francisco between 4th & King and 25th Street/Cesar Chavez, I noticed that there is a faded out diamond marker in what looked like an HOV lane that is currently not in operation (see image here: http://s15.postimage.org/tnlilwb8r/I2802.jpg).  Was this an HOV lane?  Or a bus-only lane?  Does anyone know why it was re-striped as a shoulder, and how long the HOV lane was in operation for (dates)?

From the California Highways article on I-280:

In the city and county of San Francisco, there were HOV lanes from S of the Sixth Street on-ramp to S of Army Street, for 1.6 miles. These were opened in 1975, but closed by the Loma Prieta earthquake.

It doesn't really clarify why the earthquake closed the HOV lanes -- structural damage?  CalTrans thought they were more needed for SOVs after the earthquake?  -- but at least it gives you the dates and location.

[portlandexpos04]

2.) When driving southbound on I-280 in San Francisco between 4th & King and 25th Street/Cesar Chavez, I noticed that there is a faded out diamond marker in what looked like an HOV lane that is currently not in operation (see image here: http://s15.postimage.org/tnlilwb8r/I2802.jpg).  Was this an HOV lane?  Or a bus-only lane?  Does anyone know why it was re-striped as a shoulder, and how long the HOV lane was in operation for (dates)?

From the California Highways article on I-280:

In the city and county of San Francisco, there were HOV lanes from S of the Sixth Street on-ramp to S of Army Street, for 1.6 miles. These were opened in 1975, but closed by the Loma Prieta earthquake.

It doesn't really clarify why the earthquake closed the HOV lanes -- structural damage?  CalTrans thought they were more needed for SOVs after the earthquake?  -- but at least it gives you the dates and location.

Thanks kkt!  That definitely sheds some light on this question.  Amazing that the marker is still clearly visible after all this time.  Loma Prieta was in 1989! 

[flowmotion]

About 10 years ago (early 2000s), the closed vista point was temporarily re-opened, or at least the Road Closed sign was missing. The pavement up there was in terrible shape.

My guess is that Caltrans just didn't want to pay for maintenance. Last time I was at the open northbound Vista Point, the trash bins were overflowing and there was litter everywhere.

[TheStranger]

It doesn't really clarify why the earthquake closed the HOV lanes -- structural damage?  CalTrans thought they were more needed for SOVs after the earthquake?  -- but at least it gives you the dates and location.

I recall that section of 280 between 4th Street (before that north stub was converted to a King Street realignment/boulevard around the time Pac Bell Park began to be built) and the Alemany Maze was closed from 1989-1994, so that probably explains it - by the time it was reopened, my guess is that a 1.6 mile carpool lane seemed superfluous (especially with 280 never being completed to the old 480/80 interchange).

[jrouse]

2.) When driving southbound on I-280 in San Francisco between 4th & King and 25th Street/Cesar Chavez, I noticed that there is a faded out diamond marker in what looked like an HOV lane that is currently not in operation (see image here: http://s15.postimage.org/tnlilwb8r/I2802.jpg).  Was this an HOV lane?  Or a bus-only lane?  Does anyone know why it was re-striped as a shoulder, and how long the HOV lane was in operation for (dates)?

From the California Highways article on I-280:

In the city and county of San Francisco, there were HOV lanes from S of the Sixth Street on-ramp to S of Army Street, for 1.6 miles. These were opened in 1975, but closed by the Loma Prieta earthquake.

It doesn't really clarify why the earthquake closed the HOV lanes -- structural damage?  CalTrans thought they were more needed for SOVs after the earthquake?  -- but at least it gives you the dates and location.

It was removed, apparently to provide additional freeway capacity in the aftermath of the quake.  I can only speculate, but this may have had something to do with the closure of the Embarcadero and Central Freeways.

[TheStranger]

It was removed, apparently to provide additional freeway capacity in the aftermath of the quake.  I can only speculate, but this may have had something to do with the closure of the Embarcadero and Central Freeways.

Another thought:

There was one point where northbound traffic used the upper deck of the 101/280 connector at the Alemany Maze, while the lower deck was being rehabbed. (So for a while, the Bayshore Freeway had a temporary left exit to access 280 north) Perhaps the lane configuration change related to when that was the case for a few months, then never reverted?