US 311 extension to US 58

[hbelkins]

Can Virginia swap out primary for secondary? I can think of at least two primary routes in southwestern Virginia (VA 78 and VA 352) that could easily be turned into 600-series secondary routes if needed to gain mileage for the primary system. Neither are through connecting routes and actually lead into dead-end secondary highways.

[Henry]

This is how twisted NCDOT is, honestly, US 311 should be decommissioned completely, especially since eventually I-74 will swallow most of it...

One alternative would be to make it NC 311 and put it on its old route through W-S before it followed I-40 to US 52...

NO US routes should be decommissioned!

Try telling that to the states out west.

[Mapmikey]

Can Virginia swap out primary for secondary? I can think of at least two primary routes in southwestern Virginia (VA 78 and VA 352) that could easily be turned into 600-series secondary routes if needed to gain mileage for the primary system. Neither are through connecting routes and actually lead into dead-end secondary highways.

The CTB can decommission 150 miles of primary mileage per year.  However, I don't think they can use this to gain miles above the 50 mile limit of adding primary mileage.  IIRC, throughout the 1940s-50s (which is how far back these two laws go), they always stayed below both...some years they would decommission right at 150 miles and add nearly 50.  But if they needed to have more primary they still waited until the following year to do it.

I also believe the interstate system is exempt from the adding limitations and there is since 1980 a separate urban mileage law (where most of the 4xx routes came from) used in the independent cities.

Mapmikey

[bob7374]

AASHTO SCOH's Special Committee on US Route Numbering (USRN) has released the agenda for their spring meeting next week in Traverse City, MI. The report is available here: http://www.transportation.org/sites/route/docs/Agenda%20USRN%20SM2012%20May%2018.pdf

The report has a summary of this year's agenda starting on page 11. Under NC there is no listing for the US 311 extension, just an application for realignments to Bike Route 1. There are no applications listed from VA. Since, from the NCDOT correspondence posted on their route change site, NC was prepared to submit their materials to AASHTO, it appears that VADOT wasn't able to submit any materials in time or both states decided they were not ready to submit an application yet.

NCDOT will have to submit an application regarding the routing of 311 along the finished I-74 freeway route to US 220 which is to open this fall. Maybe they are considering the option of decommissioning the route at that time, and thus not applying to extend a route that won't exist in the future.

[Mapmikey]

Virginia is taking up the subject of US 311 extension in this month's CTB workshop.

ppt available: http://www.ctb.virginia.gov/resources/2012/june/pre/CTB_Workshop_Meeting_June_Agenda.pdf

They appear to be in favor of doing this.  They can't put SR 863 into the primary system until FY 2013 which starts July 1.

They also will talk about what to do with current VA 311. 

My question is whether they would assign SR 863 as a VA 51 extension pending AASHTO approval of the US-designation.

Mapmikey

[usends]

The audio of this workshop is available online: http://www.ctb.virginia.gov/podcasts/June2012CTBWorkshopWEB.mp3
It's about 5 hours long, but if anyone's interested in skipping to the presentation on the topic of US 311, go to about 3:44.  This agenda item lasts for about 12 minutes.

One of the items listed in Mr. Hofrichter's powerpoint (which was available online prior to the meeting) was "decide what to do with existing state route 311".  So I emailed him a week or two ago, and pointed out that this would not be an issue if Route 863 was designated as U.S. 360 (instead of U.S. 311), and went on to explain what I've already outlined upthread.  He sent back a congenial reply, saying the suggestion had merit, and that he had passed it on to the Maintenance Division, which is responsible for actually numbering highways and for preparing requests to AASHTO regarding US route designations.  He then pointed out that there is also a state route 360 in VA, and that this sometimes causes confusion for travelers.  I replied that extending the US 360 designation could have the added benefit of actually helping this situation, at least on the Danville end.  (Currently US 360 enters downtown Danville and connects with VA 360.  But if US 360 were extended into North Carolina, it would bypass Danville to the south, and would therefore no longer directly connect with VA 360.)

Anyway, none of these numbering issues were discussed in the actual CTB workshop.  There were some mildly interesting comments, with some promoting the merits of a US route designation, while others were of the opinion that the shape of the sign doesn't make any difference.  Someone also pointed out the importance of helping out neighboring states with their highway initiatives.

[Mapmikey]

Thoughts about renumbering VA 311 if they stick with the US 311 extension instead of US 360:

Option 1: change VA 311 to US 221 and remove the non-sensical US 221 designation east of Roanoke.  US 221 between Bedford and Lynchburg can be VA 291, VA 297, extended VA 128 or VA 210, etc.

Option 2: change VA 311 to VA 18 and renumber VA 18 as VA 42.  This would enable VA 42 to eliminate one of its gaps.

Option 3: change VA 311 to an extended VA 116 or VA 419.  VA 311 from US 11 to VA 419 would need a new number.

Option 4: recognize (like VA 13) that VA 311 and US 311 are quite far apart and unlikely to cause confusion.

Troll option: renumber as an extension of WV 92, then renumber VA 92 as VA 311 or VA 360

Other sensible ideas?


Mapmikey

[NE2]

Option 5: renumber to SR 73 as an extension of I-73

[Takumi]

It could also simply be renumbered to a number that neither VA nor WV currently use. 167, 248, 317, etc.

[hbelkins]

Other sensible ideas?

Renumber as Alternate US 220; extend Alt 220 designation west on I-64 (since the WV 311 exit is only a partial exit) to turn around at the US 60/WV 92 White Sulphur Springs exit, then east on I-64 to meet US 220 at Covington.

This would provide the added benefit of having northbound and southbound Alt 220 running concurrently with I-64 west from the existing WV 311 exit to White Sulphur Springs, then east back to the existing WV 311 exit. That would be a true novelty.

[froggie]

But if US 360 were extended into North Carolina, it would bypass Danville to the south, and would therefore no longer directly connect with VA 360.)

They'd still intersect at their junction northeast of South Boston, though that'd be alleviated by extending VA 344 along VA 360's routing.

[Mapmikey]

This item appears on the agenda for the upcoming July 18 CTB Meeting:

"4.   Action on Transfer of Route 863 in Pittsylvania County, Located in the Lynchburg District, From the Secondary Highway System to the Primary Highway System"


http://www.ctb.virginia.gov/resources/2012/july/CTB_Action_Meeting_July.pdf

Mapmikey