News:

Am able to again make updates to the Shield Gallery!
- Alex

Main Menu

When did your state first use exit numbers?

Started by MDOTFanFB, October 11, 2012, 08:37:57 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

PHLBOS

#25
Quote from: NE2 on October 17, 2012, 04:26:48 PM
Quote from: PHLBOS on October 17, 2012, 04:20:45 PM
a 1950 USGS quad map (Salem Quadrangle) I saw at the first engineering firm I worked in over in Danvers
http://ims.er.usgs.gov/gda_services/download?item_id=5632307&quad=Salem&state=MA&grid=7.5X7.5&series=Map%20GeoPDF
Thanks for the link.  Not sure why I thought 1950 rather than 1956 (maybe I was thinking of the date of the original I-95 Topsfield-to-Newburyport layout)

Anyway, listed MA 128 exit numbers:

Old Exit 9/current Exit 19 (Brimbal Ave. (Sohier Road would come later))
Old Exit 10/current Exit 20B (MA 1A North)
Old Exit 11/current Exit 20A (MA 1A South)
Note: No Trask Lane nor Conant St. exit ramps (current Exit 21)

Old Exit 12/current Exit 22 & former 22W (MA 62, MA 62 West from 128 Northbound)*
Old Exit 13/former Exit 22E (MA 62 East from 128 Northbound)*
*Exits 22/22E/22W were recently consolidated into one exit ramp (22 - MA 62) from 128 Northbound)

Old Exit 14/former Exit 23N (MA 35 North)**
Old Exit 15/former Exit 23S (MA 35 South)**
**Exits 23N/23S were recently consolidated into one exit ramp (23 - MA 35).

Old Exit 15A/current Exit 24 (Endicott St.); probably the first time MA used an 'A' suffix for an exit number.  Interchange was a then-recent add-on and obviously predates the Liberty Tree Mall (which opened in 1971).

Old Exit 16/current Exit 25B (MA 114 then-North, now West)***
Old Exit 17/current Exit 25A (MA 114 then-South, now East)***
*** Interchange predates the North Shore Shopping Center (now Mall) existence and related alterations/expansions.  Note: Lafayette Street south of Loring Ave. & Salem State College (now University) is still listed as MA 129.  Back then, MA 114 ended at MA 1A/107 in Salem and was a north-south route.

Old Exit 18/current Exit 26 (Lowell St.)

Also note that the old at-grade intersections of Forrest & Summit Streets have no exit numbers (they would later become Exits 27 & 28).  The US 1 interchange (off the quad-sheet) was a much smaller cloverleaf interchange w/no Goodwin's Circle connector from Salem St. (current MA 129 & original MA 128) and was Exits 19 & 20.  It would later become Exit 30 (S & N/A & B Northbound only) and then to the current Exit 43 (A & B Northbound only) in 1987.

Nonetheless: my point regarding MA highways having exit numbers when the Yankee Division Highway/MA 128 was first built and prior to 1959 still stands.

Side bar: note the US 1/MA 62 interchange ramp configuration, pre-I-95; particularly the US 1 North/MA 62 East ramps.
GPS does NOT equal GOD


Dr Frankenstein

Québec has used them since at least 1964.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GLoEAAAAIBAJ&sjid=_z0DAAAAIBAJ&pg=2150%2C4456439

I'm not sure whether or not the Laurentian Autoroute used exit numbers prior to that. If it did, then they were sequential and switched to mileage-based in '64.

All the exits were renumbered following metrication in the '70s.

agentsteel53

Quote from: Dr Frankenstein on October 17, 2012, 05:20:14 PM

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=GLoEAAAAIBAJ&sjid=_z0DAAAAIBAJ&pg=2150%2C4456439


on an unrelated topic, scroll over to the right on that newspaper page, and read about a gas war. 

googling "gas war" gives a pretty terrible signal-to-noise ratio, but I believe the gist of it was that large chains lower prices to force smaller independent stations to go out of business: either match the price, and lose money, or keep selling at high prices and lose customers.

I think the US made them illegal (anti-competitive business practices) a few decades ago, and I'll bet Canada did the same as well.
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

roadman

#28
Thanks PHLBOS for the clarification regarding exit numbers on Route 128.  I was aware that Route 128 was one of the first highways in Massachusetts to have exit numbers, but I had thought it was done concurrent with the 1959 numbering plan, and not before then.

Regarding Route 2 at Route 128, I suspect this was never signed as "EXIT 25" because, although Route 2 had exit numbers assigned to it since the 1960s(?), they didn't appear on the BGS panels in the Lincoln to Cambridge section until the (mostly) ground-mounted signs were replaced with new overhead signs during the 1991 sign replacement project.

As for the Route 128 exit on the MassPike, remember that the road was operated by a separate agency until November of 2009, when the Turnpike Authority was merged with MassHighway.  As such, it may not even had occurred to MassDPW to put the request to MTA when they were planning the 1959 exit numbering scheme for their roads.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

thenetwork

My earliest recollection of Ohio having exit numbers (outside of the Ohio Turnpike - 1955) was in the late 60's, and that was along I-90 (Used to hear commercials for THOMPSON DRAG RACEWAY mentioning exiting I-90 at the Madison (OH) exit, #61).


roadfro

Quote from: roadman on October 17, 2012, 01:08:54 PM
According to the MassDPW press release [...] it was a rule (as specifically highlighted in said press release) that when any other controlled-access highway intersected with Route 128, the exit to Route 128 from that highway was always designated as Exit 25

Is there a reason for this...some significance of the number "25" to Route 128? Did this rule place exit 25 out of numerical order on intersecting routes?
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

Desert Man

I didn't notice Cal. used exit numbers on their freeways until a decade ago (my memory may be right or wrong)  :confused:, but the L.A. county sector of I-10 had exit numbers from 1 (the beach at Santa Monica) to 46-something for Indian Hill Avenue on the LA-san Bernardino county line as far as I can remember.
Get your kicks...on Route 99! Like to turn 66 upside down. The other historic Main street of America.

NE2

Quote from: roadfro on October 19, 2012, 03:59:48 AM
Quote from: roadman on October 17, 2012, 01:08:54 PM
According to the MassDPW press release [...] it was a rule (as specifically highlighted in said press release) that when any other controlled-access highway intersected with Route 128, the exit to Route 128 from that highway was always designated as Exit 25

Is there a reason for this...some significance of the number "25" to Route 128? Did this rule place exit 25 out of numerical order on intersecting routes?

Numbers were in order, counting down inside 128 and up outside. Presumably they figured no route would have more than 24 exits inside 128.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

agentsteel53

Quote from: Mike D boy on October 19, 2012, 04:20:33 AM
I didn't notice Cal. used exit numbers on their freeways until a decade ago (my memory may be right or wrong)  :confused:, but the L.A. county sector of I-10 had exit numbers from 1 (the beach at Santa Monica) to 46-something for Indian Hill Avenue on the LA-san Bernardino county line as far as I can remember.

about 2002 is when the major exit-numbering project came into play, so that is what you probably started noticing.

before that, there was an experiment in 1971 with exit numbers that resulted in only a few being put up, around the East LA Interchange.  a lot of those survive.  they are notable for being centered, mounted externally, made of porcelain, and - did I mention - mounted externally

for all of CalTrans's quibbling about how external tabs would never stand up to wind loading ... here's an experiment that was showing 30+ years of success at the time of the new numbering project, and is now at 40+ years and counting.

(certainly there are much windier places in CA than East Los Angeles, but it was a stupid decision for the entire state to have internal tabs, as opposed to using external tabs and issuing a waiver for San Gorgonio Pass on I-10.)
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

TheStranger

Quote from: agentsteel53 on October 19, 2012, 10:25:45 AM
Quote from: Mike D boy on October 19, 2012, 04:20:33 AM
I didn't notice Cal. used exit numbers on their freeways until a decade ago (my memory may be right or wrong)  :confused:, but the L.A. county sector of I-10 had exit numbers from 1 (the beach at Santa Monica) to 46-something for Indian Hill Avenue on the LA-san Bernardino county line as far as I can remember.

about 2002 is when the major exit-numbering project came into play, so that is what you probably started noticing.

before that, there was an experiment in 1971 with exit numbers that resulted in only a few being put up, around the East LA Interchange.  a lot of those survive.  they are notable for being centered, mounted externally, made of porcelain, and - did I mention - mounted externally


I do find it interesting that basically all of I-10 in Los Angeles County had the numbers installed in 1971, yet much less for the other routes (i.e. very short portion of I-5 and US 101, and not much of what was then Route 11).  Makes me wonder if they continued with 10 exit-by-exit until the project was cancelled...
Chris Sampang

PHLBOS

#35
Quote from: roadman on October 18, 2012, 04:24:46 PM
Thanks PHLBOS for the clarification regarding exit numbers on Route 128.  I was aware that Route 128 was one of the first highways in Massachusetts to have exit numbers, but I had thought it was done concurrent with the 1959 numbering plan, and not before then.
The only thing I wasn't aware of was when the change from the original exit numbers (which, for obvious reasons, did not take into account future interchanges with other highways) to the Exit 9 at MA 127A and increasing southward took place.  I'm guessing that the original numbering scheme likely had Exit 1 at the MA 127/Grant Circle rotary (current Exit 11) and the other 127 intersection (current Exit 10) and 127A intersection (current Exit 9) did not originally have exit numbers.  It's worth noting that the Blackburn Circle rotary (located between the two 127 intersections/Exits 10 & 11) still has no exit number assigned to it.

Quote from: roadman on October 18, 2012, 04:24:46 PMRegarding Route 2 at Route 128, I suspect this was never signed as "EXIT 25" because, although Route 2 had exit numbers assigned to it since the 1960s(?), they didn't appear on the BGS panels in the Lincoln to Cambridge section until the (mostly) ground-mounted signs were replaced with new overhead signs during the 1991 sign replacement project.
The current exit numbering along MA 2 certainly doesn't reflect the 25/128 scheme.  Did the early exit numbering scheme have that on paper then changed over later on before it actually appeared on BGS'?

Quote from: roadman on October 18, 2012, 04:24:46 PMAs for the Route 128 exit on the MassPike, remember that the road was operated by a separate agency until November of 2009, when the Turnpike Authority was merged with MassHighway.  As such, it may not even had occurred to MassDPW to put the request to MTA when they were planning the 1959 exit numbering scheme for their roads.
With the Mass Pike, I figured as such.  So what you're saying is that the Exit 25 at 128 nomenclature officially began in 1959?

Quote from: NE2 on October 19, 2012, 04:25:30 AM
Quote from: roadfro on October 19, 2012, 03:59:48 AMIs there a reason for this...some significance of the number "25" to Route 128? Did this rule place exit 25 out of numerical order on intersecting routes?

Numbers were in order, counting down inside 128 and up outside. Presumably they figured no route would have more than 24 exits inside 128.
One would have to wonder how the DPW would've handled the exit numbering along I-95 had the Topsfield (US 1) - to - Peabody (MA 128) segment had already built and open back then.  MA would've had 2 complete Exit 25+ for both the northern and southern segments of I-95. 

While a similar situation indeed existed for US/MA 3; it could be argued that those were 2 separate routes (US vs. MA) that happen to have the same number plus the fact that the Southeast Expressway originally (prior to 1971) only had the MA 3 designation from Granite Ave. (Exit 11, originally Exit 21) southward.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

roadman

@PHLBOS

I'll have to dig out the 1959 press release to verify this, but my recollection is that Route 2 at 128 was to be Exit 25 under the 1959 scheme.  Also, I can find no reference to the "all exits with 128 are Exit 25" plan prior to 1959.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

doorknob60

Quote from: sp_redelectric on October 13, 2012, 11:18:07 AM
And I believe on U.S. 97 there are some interchanges in Bend and Klamath Falls that have exit numbers.
Yeah, most of US 97's grade separated intersections now have exit numbers. All of the ones on the Bend parkway do, there's one at the intersection of OR 422, I'm not sure if the OR-58 interchange is numbered or not, I don't remember, and I think most of the exits in K Falls are numbered.

J N Winkler

High Plains Traveler has already answered for Colorado, but recently I have been given sight of a number of construction plans for I-25 in Colorado (covering the length of I-25 which is in CDOT Region 2, from the New Mexico state line north to at least the SH 105/Monument interchange, which is Exit 161), and I can provide additional detail.  Unless otherwise stated, all dates given below correspond to the date that the title sheet was signed by the Director of the Colorado Highway Department to indicate his approval to let the contract.  (Most plans sets have a later signature from the same official to indicate acceptance of the as-built plans, but I have ignored these.  Most of the signatures are from Charles Shumate, who thanks to Tom Lewis' book Divided Highways is notorious as the director who fought and lost a major lawsuit which challenged his department's then policy of not allowing female employees to work in tunnels.)

Colorado did not have numbered exits before 1965, though mileposts (Series D digits, no border or word "MILE") were in use by 1962.  The oldest contract for which I have been able to find exit numbers dates from 1969.  At that time, exits were numbered sequentially and the tabs were center-mounted with no bottom border.  (I suspect they were actually integral with the main sign panel, as was also the case in Pennsylvania and a number of other states.)  At cloverleafs where separate ramps corresponded to different directions of travel on the same interchanging route, directional suffixes were used (at a smaller height)--so, for example, there were briefly Exits 70W and 70E at the USAF Academy interchange.  Later, these were changed to alphabetical suffixes (same height as the numeric part)--so Exit 70W became Exit 70B and Exit 70E became Exit 70A.  I found no instances of inserted interchanges for which alphabetical suffixes might have had to be used in the sequential exit numbering scheme.

Around 1972, Colorado DOT decided to dual-post sequential and mileage-based exit numbers, each having its own tab on advance guide and exit direction signs.  The mileage-based tabs were placed on top of the sequential tabs and each type of tab had a bottom border visually separating it from the main sign panel and any tabs above or below.  Sequential tabs continued to use the word "EXIT" while mileage-based tabs used the word "MILE" in lieu of "EXIT."  Mileage-based tabs had alphabetic suffixes for closely spaced exits, thus leading to odd expressions like "MILE 100A" and "MILE 100B."  Brand-new signs had the stacked tabs.  Older signs received the stacked tabs together with message revisions (generally to drop the redundant word "EXIT" in the distance expression, so e.g. "EXIT 1/4 MILE" became just "1/4 MILE") only if they had originally been fabricated without exit tabs and so were rectangular in overall format.  Older signs with existing sequential numbering tabs were generally either left alone or removed and replaced with new signs having stacked tabs.  Gore signs consisted of a main sign panel giving the sequential exit number and a "MILE" tab giving the mileage-based exit number.

Generally, exit tabs of both types were 24" in height.

One bit of trivia:  exit direction signs in Colorado at this time, and for at least one or two decades later, had arrows only if they were mounted overhead.  Ground-mounted exit direction signs had the legend "RIGHT LANE," systematically changed to "NEXT RIGHT" by mid-1960's retrofits.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

thenetwork

Quote from: J N Winkler on October 26, 2012, 03:37:12 PM
One bit of trivia:  exit direction signs in Colorado at this time, and for at least one or two decades later, had arrows only if they were mounted overhead.  Ground-mounted exit direction signs had the legend "RIGHT LANE," systematically changed to "NEXT RIGHT" by mid-1960's retrofits.

If you drive I-70 through Garfield and Eagle Counties in Western Colorado, the NEXT RIGHT (instead of a turnoff arrows) label has made a BIG comeback, unfortunately.    :no:

J N Winkler

#40
Quote from: thenetwork on October 27, 2012, 05:19:51 PMIf you drive I-70 through Garfield and Eagle Counties in Western Colorado, the NEXT RIGHT (instead of a turnoff arrows) label has made a BIG comeback, unfortunately.    :no:

After going through videologging for these portions of I-70, I see that CDOT is also omitting the arrow on overhead-mounted exit direction signs, which they didn't used to do (at least on the parts of I-25 for which historical plans are available).  As an example, here is the Glenwood Springs exit:

SH 82/Glenwood Springs/Aspen (I-70 eastbound Exit 116)

And at minor rural interchanges on I-25 (the kind that receive just one advance guide sign, typically at the half-mile point) CDOT is also omitting the exit direction sign, which means you have to swoop right and hit the brakes as soon as you see the gore sign.  (Edit:  I checked MUTCD § 2E.36, which deals with exit direction signs, and it seems that agencies are allowed to omit them at minor interchanges--for major and intermediate interchanges it is a "shall" condition that they be used, while for minor interchanges it is only a "should" condition.)
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

thenetwork

Quote from: J N Winkler on October 29, 2012, 11:21:40 AM
Quote from: thenetwork on October 27, 2012, 05:19:51 PMIf you drive I-70 through Garfield and Eagle Counties in Western Colorado, the NEXT RIGHT (instead of a turnoff arrows) label has made a BIG comeback, unfortunately.    :no:

After going through videologging for these portions of I-70, I see that CDOT is also omitting the arrow on overhead-mounted exit direction signs, which they didn't used to do (at least on the parts of I-25 for which historical plans are available).  As an example, here is the Glenwood Springs exit:

SH 82/Glenwood Springs/Aspen (I-70 eastbound Exit 116)

This one is a double whammy signing error, as there is no indication anywhere that the right lane is an EXIT ONLY lane -- either on the overhead or on the shoulder.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.