Wisconsin notes

[SEWIGuy]

The first PIM for the relaunched US 18/151 Corridor Study is on October 9th at 5:30 PM. The location of the meeting will be at the Mount Horeb High School in Mount Horeb. The study's website is located here: https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/18151study/default.aspx.

I await the day that one can drive from Columbus to Dodgeville on entirely freeways...

Think bigger. Cedar Rapids to Sheboygan. That's my dream.

Might as well be posting this on Fictional Highways.

[WISFreeways]

Yeah, Cedar Rapids to Sheboygan isn't warranted, the traffic counts are not justified.

But, some things I think would benefit the area would be:

- Beltline expansion
- I-39/90/94 expansion
- US 151 Dodgeville to Verona and Raymond Road to Beltline
- US 12 west to Sauk City
- CTH K expansion / "North Mendota Parkway" / improvements to CTH M in Middleton to make it more free-flowing
- US 51 in Madison
- I-94 Cottage Grove to Pewaukee

[The Ghostbuster]

The first one might happen, but there are no guarantees. The second one will definitely happen. As for number three, I expect the first part to happen, but the second part seems unlikely to me. There was a study for number four, but it ended at STH 19 West. I don't expect any of number five to happen. Number six will only happen south of STH 30. I strongly support number 7 happening, but it likely be a long time before the entire corridor is widened to six lanes.

[JREwing78]

The first PIM for the relaunched US 18/151 Corridor Study is on October 9th at 5:30 PM. The location of the meeting will be at the Mount Horeb High School in Mount Horeb. The study's website is located here: https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/projects/by-region/sw/18151study/default.aspx.

I await the day that one can drive from Columbus to Dodgeville on entirely freeways...

Think bigger. Cedar Rapids to Sheboygan. That's my dream.

Minimum 50 years for all of that to happen. We're not even going to get full freeway through Madison for at least another 30 years. There's also that pesky matter of what to do in Dubuque along the river. 

Honestly, though, there's not a whole lot along this route that's will cause someone delays. As it sits now, downtown Milwaukee to downtown Des Moines is not even 10 minutes faster via the Quad Cities (I-43 -> I-39 -> I-88 -> I-80) vs. Madison, Dubuque, and Cedar Rapids (I-94, US-151, US-30, IA-330), and that's with the stoplights and marginally lower speed limits on the latter. From Sheboygan? Going through Milwaukee adds at least 10 minutes and 28 miles now.

Which route would I choose? 10/10 the northern route.

[mgk920]

In the Madison area, I will likely live to see direct free-flow connections between (the interstates) and US 151 to the northeast at the East Towne Interchange, abut I'm not do sure WRT the Beltline/Verona Rd to US 18/151 to the southwest.

Mike

[The Ghostbuster]

While I don't expect Stage 3 to be implemented, here is a document from the Final Environmental Impact Statement on the then-proposed three stages of the reconstruction of US 18/151 Verona Rd.: https://projects.511wi.gov/veronard/wp-content/uploads/sites/143/feis-es.pdf.

[thspfc]

Regardless of whether stage 3 happens, the current situation (while not perfect) is a huge upgrade over the situation prior to the completion of stages 1 and 2. From time to time I hear/see people calling the whole project a waste. That's just complaining for the sake of complaining.

[hobsini2]

Yeah, Cedar Rapids to Sheboygan isn't warranted, the traffic counts are not justified.

But, some things I think would benefit the area would be:

- Beltline expansion
- I-39/90/94 expansion
- US 151 Dodgeville to Verona and Raymond Road to Beltline
- US 12 west to Sauk City
- CTH K expansion / "North Mendota Parkway" / improvements to CTH M in Middleton to make it more free-flowing
- US 51 in Madison
- I-94 Cottage Grove to Pewaukee

Current traffic counts are not the end all be all on deciding if a corridor becomes a freeway. Case in point, I-39 in Illinois when it was built had very low traffic counts until people, especially semis, realized that it was a useful out bypass of the Chicago area. Would you say that was a justified route knowing what we know? I would. But like I said, that's my long-term dream.

[thspfc]

For a route that's more or less already 100% expressway or better, there are a lot of things stopping Cedar Rapids-Sheboygan from ever becoming an Interstate. Traffic counts are the tip of the iceberg. TLDR is it will never happen.

- ROW around the Julien Dubuque Bridge is nonexistent, and acquiring new ROW in the middle of a city in 2025 is harder than walking on water. A Dubuque bypass with a new US-61/151 bridge is never happening.
- Aforementioned Verona Road situation. More likely to be made free-flowing than Dubuque but still won't lose sleep. The right time for a Beltline alternative was 20 years ago, now it's 10 years overdue and will never happen.
- the Beltline itself: not sure if it's Interstate standard, even if it is I can't imagine WISDOT would be thrilled about slapping the red and blue shield on it without significant upgrades (see: I-41)
- Fond du Lac. Two brand new free-flowing interchanges would be required (at I-41 and where WI-23 is now). The latter is the big problem. There's a hospital where the Interstate's mainline lanes would go, connections to US-151 north and WI-23 west would be needed without encroaching on the supermarkets, the new WI-23/CTH-K ramps would need to be upgraded and integrated into the interchange. A new build alignment over the big ridge east of FDL will never happen.
- finally, the new WI-23 is still not close to Interstate standard, in fact even calling it an expressway might be an oversell.

[Revive 755]

- ROW around the Julien Dubuque Bridge is nonexistent, and acquiring new ROW in the middle of a city in 2025 is harder than walking on water.

Looks to me all Iowa for have to do to at least get that stretch of US 61/US 151 in Dubuque to a freeway is close the Jones Street intersection and close the intersection with the Locust Street Connector.  If they close those intersections without putting in any ramps they don't need ROW.

Iowa mangaged to get new ROW for the new I-74 Mississippi River Bridges. I'm sure Iowa could get a little more ROW in Dubuque if they got serious about getting rid of those stoplights.  There are also good examples of ROW acquisition in cities in Illinois right now with I-80 through Joliet and the railroad realignment through Springfield.

[Molandfreak]

It is a waste with that light still existing at Raymond Road—a random, insignificant city street not on the NHS. If they could get rid of that without doing any other step of stage 3, I would be happy.

[Rothman]

It is a waste with that light still existing at Raymond Road—a random, insignificant city street not on the NHS. If they could get rid of that without doing any other step of stage 3, I would be happy.

Wait, lights should only be installed on the NHS?

[Molandfreak]

It is a waste with that light still existing at Raymond Road—a random, insignificant city street not on the NHS. If they could get rid of that without doing any other step of stage 3, I would be happy.

Wait, lights should only be installed on the NHS?

On a highway of this scale, without any interruptions to free-flowing design for 90 miles, yes. Preferably zero interruptions, but especially no interruptions for random local streets.

[Rothman]

It is a waste with that light still existing at Raymond Road—a random, insignificant city street not on the NHS. If they could get rid of that without doing any other step of stage 3, I would be happy.

Wait, lights should only be installed on the NHS?

On a highway of this scale, without any interruptions to free-flowing design for 90 miles, yes. Preferably zero interruptions, but especially no interruptions for random local streets.

NHS can absolutely include dinky streets...

[SEWIGuy]

It is a waste with that light still existing at Raymond Road—a random, insignificant city street not on the NHS. If they could get rid of that without doing any other step of stage 3, I would be happy.

Wait, lights should only be installed on the NHS?

On a highway of this scale, without any interruptions to free-flowing design for 90 miles, yes. Preferably zero interruptions, but especially no interruptions for random local streets.

I don't like the light either but Raymond Road is a pretty significant arterial in that part of Madison. It's a difficult problem to fix. They don't want that traffic using even more minor streets to access the highway.

[The Ghostbuster]

One component of Stage 3 would have been to extend Raymond Rd. to Allied Dr: https://projects.511wi.gov/veronard/wp-content/uploads/sites/143/map-altstage3.pdf.

[thspfc]

It is a waste with that light still existing at Raymond Road—a random, insignificant city street not on the NHS. If they could get rid of that without doing any other step of stage 3, I would be happy.

Wait, lights should only be installed on the NHS?

On a highway of this scale, without any interruptions to free-flowing design for 90 miles, yes. Preferably zero interruptions, but especially no interruptions for random local streets.

I don't like the light either but Raymond Road is a pretty significant arterial in that part of Madison. It's a difficult problem to fix. They don't want that traffic using even more minor streets to access the highway.

If the Whitney Way/Beltline interchange wasn't so spatially challenged I would say make that a DDI and dead-end Raymond Rd. But that's not possible and the current configuration would be a nightmare if there was no access to Verona Rd from Raymond.

[mgk920]

It is a waste with that light still existing at Raymond Road—a random, insignificant city street not on the NHS. If they could get rid of that without doing any other step of stage 3, I would be happy.

Wait, lights should only be installed on the NHS?

On a highway of this scale, without any interruptions to free-flowing design for 90 miles, yes. Preferably zero interruptions, but especially no interruptions for random local streets.

I don't like the light either but Raymond Road is a pretty significant arterial in that part of Madison. It's a difficult problem to fix. They don't want that traffic using even more minor streets to access the highway.

Well, if those stupid lakes weren't in the way . . .

Mike