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Author Topic: North Carolina  (Read 443753 times)

goobnav

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2750 on: July 12, 2019, 11:22:07 AM »

if that is the most difficult bridge project you can find in N.C.
Oh please. There are countless bridges in North Carolina that are longer than 1,000 feet.
I was referring to the poster who was complaining about the complexity of the I-95 Roanoke River bridges.

To name a few of the longer ones...
The only really impressive one is the new bridge on NC-12 over Oregon Inlet, with the combination of length, height, foundations, span lengths, and what it crosses.

The complexity come from the amount of traffic that stretch of I-95 carries, sure close one span while the other is being worked and create a choke point where the alternatives are local roads, US 301 being the most logical but that is 2 lane rural road.  The other alternatives are either too far to be practical or as listed previously rural 2 lane back roads.

Mapmikey pointed out the release and water flow of the Roanoke River, we do get hurricanes here and that area is prone to flooding so, construction will be subject to weather delays no matter how you can plan.  Nevermind, that our fair share of wet weather is during peak construction times of the year.  We do have the exception of somewhat warmer winter but, that is also in flux.  Glad you brought up the Basnight Bridge, that was 3 years of construction after 30 years of lawsuits over environmental issues. 

By all means explain away these complexities.
You don’t have to close a span. You can widen a bridge with traffic moving on it. Hell, you can even replace a bridge with traffic moving on it by doing it in sections.

It’s certainly doable without removing traffic. Reduce the speed limit to 55 mph, shift traffic to the far right of each bridge, put up construction barriers on the left, then work in the median to build more bridge.

BTW, this is with no construction on I-95 near Rocky Mount just last February:

https://www.cbs17.com/news/local-news/crash-closes-i-95-northbound-near-rocky-mount/

Also, I'm saying it can't be done, just saying that the problems are going to be heavily reviewed before plans are done.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 11:25:56 AM by goobnav »
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BrianP

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2751 on: July 12, 2019, 11:36:40 AM »

An in progress example would be I-81 over the Potomac River.  It has much more traffic than this spot on I-95: 53320 vs 17500 via bridgereports.com.  And it has a narrower road deck since it has no shoulders.  And they are expanding the bridges from two lanes each to three with full shoulders while maintaining two lanes of traffic on each bridge.
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goobnav

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2752 on: July 12, 2019, 11:46:08 AM »

An in progress example would be I-81 over the Potomac River.  It has much more traffic than this spot on I-95: 53320 vs 17500 via bridgereports.com.  And it has a narrower road deck since it has no shoulders.  And they are expanding the bridges from two lanes each to three with full shoulders while maintaining two lanes of traffic on each bridge.

AADT as of 2016 has the counts at 41000 on the south side and 37000 on the north:

South:

https://xfer.services.ncdot.gov/imgdot/DOTTSUMaps/AADT_COUNTIES_2016/Halifax/Halifax_County_AADT_2016.pdf

North:

https://xfer.services.ncdot.gov/imgdot/DOTTSUMaps/AADT_COUNTIES_2016/Northampton/Northampton_County_AADT_2016.pdf
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sprjus4

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2753 on: July 12, 2019, 11:53:01 AM »

An in progress example would be I-81 over the Potomac River.  It has much more traffic than this spot on I-95: 53320 vs 17500 via bridgereports.com.  And it has a narrower road deck since it has no shoulders.  And they are expanding the bridges from two lanes each to three with full shoulders while maintaining two lanes of traffic on each bridge.

AADT as of 2016 has the counts at 41000 on the south side and 37000 on the north:

South:

https://xfer.services.ncdot.gov/imgdot/DOTTSUMaps/AADT_COUNTIES_2016/Halifax/Halifax_County_AADT_2016.pdf

North:

https://xfer.services.ncdot.gov/imgdot/DOTTSUMaps/AADT_COUNTIES_2016/Northampton/Northampton_County_AADT_2016.pdf
That's less than I-81. Not to mention, there's a full left shoulder on this bridge. It can certainly be widened.

What about the bridge replacement they did in Virginia just north of the state line? The one further south that NCDOT is doing right now? Bridge replacements and widenings -can- be done and have been done countless times. It's not a hard task for NCDOT.
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goobnav

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2754 on: July 12, 2019, 12:07:48 PM »

An in progress example would be I-81 over the Potomac River.  It has much more traffic than this spot on I-95: 53320 vs 17500 via bridgereports.com.  And it has a narrower road deck since it has no shoulders.  And they are expanding the bridges from two lanes each to three with full shoulders while maintaining two lanes of traffic on each bridge.

AADT as of 2016 has the counts at 41000 on the south side and 37000 on the north:

South:

https://xfer.services.ncdot.gov/imgdot/DOTTSUMaps/AADT_COUNTIES_2016/Halifax/Halifax_County_AADT_2016.pdf

North:

https://xfer.services.ncdot.gov/imgdot/DOTTSUMaps/AADT_COUNTIES_2016/Northampton/Northampton_County_AADT_2016.pdf
That's less than I-81. Not to mention, there's a full left shoulder on this bridge. It can certainly be widened.

What about the bridge replacement they did in Virginia just north of the state line? The one further south that NCDOT is doing right now? Bridge replacements and widenings -can- be done and have been done countless times. It's not a hard task for NCDOT.

Yes, less than I-81 but, more than the 17500 mentioned by the previous poster.  Once again, not saying it cannot be done just saying there is a lot more than what is being considered.
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Beltway

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2755 on: July 12, 2019, 12:41:25 PM »

I was referring to the poster who was complaining about the complexity of the I-95 Roanoke River bridges.
The complexity come from the amount of traffic that stretch of I-95 carries, sure close one span while the other is being worked and create a choke point where the alternatives are local roads, US 301 being the most logical but that is 2 lane rural road.  The other alternatives are either too far to be practical or as listed previously rural 2 lane back roads.
Mapmikey pointed out the release and water flow of the Roanoke River, we do get hurricanes here and that area is prone to flooding so, construction will be subject to weather delays no matter how you can plan.  Nevermind, that our fair share of wet weather is during peak construction times of the year.  We do have the exception of somewhat warmer winter but, that is also in flux.  Glad you brought up the Basnight Bridge, that was 3 years of construction after 30 years of lawsuits over environmental issues. 
By all means explain away these complexities.

At 1,150 feet long that is about the same length as the I-95 bridges over the Rappahannock River.  The latter are almost 100 feet high and the former is a low level bridge. 

The I-95 bridges over the Rappahannock River were widened to 3 lanes each way in the 1980s.
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goobnav

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2756 on: July 12, 2019, 12:57:21 PM »

I was referring to the poster who was complaining about the complexity of the I-95 Roanoke River bridges.
The complexity come from the amount of traffic that stretch of I-95 carries, sure close one span while the other is being worked and create a choke point where the alternatives are local roads, US 301 being the most logical but that is 2 lane rural road.  The other alternatives are either too far to be practical or as listed previously rural 2 lane back roads.
Mapmikey pointed out the release and water flow of the Roanoke River, we do get hurricanes here and that area is prone to flooding so, construction will be subject to weather delays no matter how you can plan.  Nevermind, that our fair share of wet weather is during peak construction times of the year.  We do have the exception of somewhat warmer winter but, that is also in flux.  Glad you brought up the Basnight Bridge, that was 3 years of construction after 30 years of lawsuits over environmental issues. 
By all means explain away these complexities.

At 1,150 feet long that is about the same length as the I-95 bridges over the Rappahannock River.  The latter are almost 100 feet high and the former is a low level bridge. 

The I-95 bridges over the Rappahannock River were widened to 3 lanes each way in the 1980s.

What's the explanation?
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cowboy_wilhelm

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2757 on: July 12, 2019, 02:09:11 PM »

Here's a video showing the construction sequence for the upcoming rehabilitation of the Green River bridges (1,050 feet long and 220+ feet high) on I-26 in Henderson County. The deck is being replaced and widened while maintaining traffic. Technically it will be wide enough to support an additional lane each direction, but I think it will require a design exception due to narrow shoulders. There is also the issue of the curve on the western side of the bridge not meeting today's requirements for design speed (signed as 50 mph eastbound), so it may not happen with that alignment anyway. The contract was supposed to be let last month, but it has been delayed a year due to funding issues.

« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 02:12:05 PM by cowboy_wilhelm »
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sprjus4

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2758 on: July 12, 2019, 02:29:46 PM »

Here's a video showing the construction sequence for the upcoming rehabilitation of the Green River bridges (1,050 feet long and 220+ feet high) on I-26 in Henderson County. The deck is being replaced and widened while maintaining traffic. Technically it will be wide enough to support an additional lane each direction, but I think it will require a design exception due to narrow shoulders. There is also the issue of the curve on the western side of the bridge not meeting today's requirements for design speed (signed as 50 mph eastbound), so it may not happen with that alignment anyway. The contract was supposed to be let last month, but it has been delayed a year due to funding issues.


That's a perfect example of how a bridge widening would occur on I-95.
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goobnav

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2759 on: July 12, 2019, 03:44:04 PM »

Here's a video showing the construction sequence for the upcoming rehabilitation of the Green River bridges (1,050 feet long and 220+ feet high) on I-26 in Henderson County. The deck is being replaced and widened while maintaining traffic. Technically it will be wide enough to support an additional lane each direction, but I think it will require a design exception due to narrow shoulders. There is also the issue of the curve on the western side of the bridge not meeting today's requirements for design speed (signed as 50 mph eastbound), so it may not happen with that alignment anyway. The contract was supposed to be let last month, but it has been delayed a year due to funding issues.


That's a perfect example of how a bridge widening would occur on I-95.

Good explanation for the construction but, that didn't add a lane, plus I-26 is not a major commerce route like I-95.
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sprjus4

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2760 on: July 12, 2019, 03:59:22 PM »

plus I-26 is not a major commerce route like I-95.
How the hell does that make any difference to how a widening would go?
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goobnav

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2761 on: July 12, 2019, 04:42:35 PM »

plus I-26 is not a major commerce route like I-95.
How the hell does that make any difference to how a widening would go?

Really?  Anytime I-95 is shut down for an accident, that's just an accident, there are backups due to the amount of traffic on that one route. 

It has the nick name "Main Street of the East Coast" for a reason.  You think the transport industry is not going to have any input on what limitations are going to occur when, not if, the widening is going to occur.  That's what the hell!!
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sprjus4

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2762 on: July 12, 2019, 04:45:07 PM »

plus I-26 is not a major commerce route like I-95.
How the hell does that make any difference to how a widening would go?

Really?  Anytime I-95 is shut down for an accident, that's just an accident, there are backups due to the amount of traffic on that one route. 

It has the nick name "Main Street of the East Coast" for a reason.  You think the transport industry is not going to have any input on what limitations are going to occur when, not if, the widening is going to occur.  That's what the hell!!
What about the bridge replacements further south of there? Same roadway. The bridge replacements in Emporia, VA that finished a few months ago, different state, but same roadway. The massive construction around Fredericksburg and the new Rappahannack River bridges. The Occoquan River Bridges were widened from 6 to 8-lanes in 2013. The Springfield Interchange in 2008. The Woodrow Wilson Bridge Replacement in 2008 - 2012.

All on I-95.
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goobnav

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2763 on: July 12, 2019, 05:13:36 PM »

plus I-26 is not a major commerce route like I-95.
How the hell does that make any difference to how a widening would go?

Really?  Anytime I-95 is shut down for an accident, that's just an accident, there are backups due to the amount of traffic on that one route. 

It has the nick name "Main Street of the East Coast" for a reason.  You think the transport industry is not going to have any input on what limitations are going to occur when, not if, the widening is going to occur.  That's what the hell!!
What about the bridge replacements further south of there? Same roadway. The bridge replacements in Emporia, VA that finished a few months ago, different state, but same roadway. The massive construction around Fredericksburg and the new Rappahannack River bridges. The Occoquan River Bridges were widened from 6 to 8-lanes in 2013. The Springfield Interchange in 2008. The Woodrow Wilson Bridge Replacement in 2008 - 2012.

All on I-95.

The Mixing Bowl took the better part of a decade and was a nightmare!!  It was started in '93!!!!  Driving between NC and PA and back saw the whole bloody thing from start to finish and had to time driving on it either O Dark thirty or on a really off weekend to prevent being stuck in traffic for 2+ hours.  So if you think NCDOT is not accounting for that mess and dreading taking the blame for it!!  LOL!!!!!

They just finished the Fortify project, the I-87 signs were the last part and then decided to start on widening 40 SE of Raleigh, they have signed alternates all the way out to 95 on 264/587 from I-540 near Durham!!
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sprjus4

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2764 on: July 12, 2019, 05:17:45 PM »

^

What about VDOT widening the Occoquan River Bridges in 2013 from 3 to 4 lanes each way?
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goobnav

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2765 on: July 12, 2019, 06:08:32 PM »

^

What about VDOT widening the Occoquan River Bridges in 2013 from 3 to 4 lanes each way?

Didn't drive 95 that year, thank God!!!
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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2766 on: July 12, 2019, 06:12:29 PM »

^^ The Occoquan bridges being 4 lanes dates back to at least 2002 (probably before then).  You would be referring to the 2010-2011 widening that added an (5th) auxiliary lane in each direction.  That work was done as part of the overall 4-lane project from Newington down to the river, but the bridge already had 4 lanes before then.  I remember it well...was living in Huntington at the time.
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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2767 on: July 12, 2019, 07:02:47 PM »


Good explanation for the construction but, that didn't add a lane, plus I-26 is not a major commerce route like I-95.

NCDOT's AADT data show 46,000 vehicles on that section of I-26, 17% being trucks. At the Roanoke River on I-95 it's 49,000 and 21% trucks. Comparing volumes, the busiest stretch of I-26 sees 22,000 more vehicles per day than the busiest section of I-95. I-26 isn't a rural mountain drive.
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goobnav

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2768 on: July 12, 2019, 07:44:13 PM »


Good explanation for the construction but, that didn't add a lane, plus I-26 is not a major commerce route like I-95.

NCDOT's AADT data show 46,000 vehicles on that section of I-26, 17% being trucks. At the Roanoke River on I-95 it's 49,000 and 21% trucks. Comparing volumes, the busiest stretch of I-26 sees 22,000 more vehicles per day than the busiest section of I-95. I-26 isn't a rural mountain drive.

Links please, plus, is that busiest stretch of 26 with or at the 40 junction?
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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2770 on: July 12, 2019, 09:05:00 PM »

I've had this on my to do list for a long time but I finally have finished a feature on the decade long battle to complete Interstate 95 in Fayetteville, North Carolina.

A few things of note:
- The appeals came from local businesses along US 301 hoping to route I-95 on what is now Business 95/US 301 in Fayetteville
- The case went all the way to the Supreme Court but was not taken.
- The I-95 Committee's attempt to find  any way (often at the last possible minute) to change the routing.

https://www.gribblenation.org/2019/06/governor-hunt-cuts-ribbon-on-doomsday.html
Nice article.  I could see most of the existing US 301 route being able to be upgraded to be I-95.  Much of it has or had frontage roads which would allow for the upgrade like what will be done for I-42/US 70 in the James City area.  The problem area is between Locust St and Grove St.  I suppose this is where the compromise route would have used a new alignment.  That route would have been ok until the route needs to to be expanded.  Expanding the compromise route likely would be much more expensive to build compared to expanding the route that exists now. 

But I would question whether the compromise route would have been much better than the route that was ultimately built since that too probably would have bypassed the section of highway with the most businesses along it or highest density of businesses.  But they would still be much closer to I-95.

Here I guessed at the smallest part of the route that would be bypassed.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1cS3AxNGyKWZD2ySzL8nVjBBnrIh8B93F&usp=sharing
And for giggles I combined that with a connection to make a Fayetteville inner loop.

I wonder how close your drawing is to what the last minute suggested routing was.  I wish that cold be dug up somewhere.

And it also reminds me to try to figure out why they never continued the CBD Loop(inner loop as you called it) past Ramsey Street.  A long time ago, I saw something that gavea general reason why and what it was supposed to do.  But tht was at least 15 years ago and I never saved that article.
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goobnav

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2772 on: July 13, 2019, 02:18:38 PM »

if that is the most difficult bridge project you can find in N.C.
Oh please. There are countless bridges in North Carolina that are longer than 1,000 feet.

To name a few of the longer ones...

- US-17 over Chowan River, 2 miles long
- NC-32 over Chowan River, 4 miles long
- US-64 Bypass over Croatan Sound, 6 miles long
- US-64 over Croatan Sound, 3 miles long
- US-64 over Roanoke Sound, 1 mile long
- NC-12 over Oregon Inlet, 3 miles long
- US-70 over Gallants Channel, 1 mile long
- I-140 over Cape Fear River, 1 mile long
- US-70 / US-17 over Neuse River, 3 miles long
- US-17 over Pamlico River, 3 miles long
- US-158 over Currituck Sound, 3 miles long

All those examples are in Eastern NC, I could name plenty of more in the western, more mountainous part of the state, and likely more I missed in the eastern part. Most of those were built in the last 20-30 years, a lot the past 10-15.

Not to mention, the proposed high-rise Cape Fear Skyway which would be almost 2 miles long, along with the proposed Mid-Currituck Bridge which would build almost 7 miles of bridge over water and swamp.


I-140 over the Cape Fear River is closer to two miles. Love that bridge!
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Interstates I've driven on (Complete and/or partial, no particular order)
------------------
40, 85, 95, 77, 277(NC), 485(NC), 440(NC), 540(NC), 795(NC), 140(NC), 73, 74, 840(NC), 26, 20, 75, 285(GA), 81, 64, 71, 275(OH), 465(IN), 65, 264(VA), 240(NC), 295(VA), 526(SC), 985(GA), 395(FL), 195(FL)

sprjus4

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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2773 on: July 13, 2019, 02:45:52 PM »

if that is the most difficult bridge project you can find in N.C.
Oh please. There are countless bridges in North Carolina that are longer than 1,000 feet.

To name a few of the longer ones...

- US-17 over Chowan River, 2 miles long
- NC-32 over Chowan River, 4 miles long
- US-64 Bypass over Croatan Sound, 6 miles long
- US-64 over Croatan Sound, 3 miles long
- US-64 over Roanoke Sound, 1 mile long
- NC-12 over Oregon Inlet, 3 miles long
- US-70 over Gallants Channel, 1 mile long
- I-140 over Cape Fear River, 1 mile long
- US-70 / US-17 over Neuse River, 3 miles long
- US-17 over Pamlico River, 3 miles long
- US-158 over Currituck Sound, 3 miles long

All those examples are in Eastern NC, I could name plenty of more in the western, more mountainous part of the state, and likely more I missed in the eastern part. Most of those were built in the last 20-30 years, a lot the past 10-15.

Not to mention, the proposed high-rise Cape Fear Skyway which would be almost 2 miles long, along with the proposed Mid-Currituck Bridge which would build almost 7 miles of bridge over water and swamp.


I-140 over the Cape Fear River is closer to two miles. Love that bridge!
It appears there's actually two separate bridges crossing both branches of the river and both of them are 1.5 miles.
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Re: North Carolina
« Reply #2774 on: July 14, 2019, 11:34:45 PM »

I am not sure if this is the same as the Roanoke Sound entry but what about US 64 over the Alligator River?
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