Why is US-1/US-9 allowed to be US-1&9?

[_Simon]

A funny thing happened a little over 20 years ago.. what had always been signed as US-1/US-9 started being signed as US-1&9 and US-1-9.   Yeah, It's 1 and 9, but seriously..  where else does this ever occur?  Is this the only exception?

[Alps]

MD 2-4. Not many instances where two single-digit routes multiplex for any length, let alone anything more than several hundred feet.

[NE2]

Because Georgia.

You'll see the occasional 2+ in one shield, usually installed by cities on side streets.
http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/mo/i-44/
http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/mo/i-70/
http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/in/i-70/65.html

And stuff like the 5-10 about halfway down here: http://www.alpsroads.net/roads/ma/us_5/

[dgolub]

A funny thing happened a little over 20 years ago.. what had always been signed as US-1/US-9 started being signed as US-1&9 and US-1-9.   Yeah, It's 1 and 9, but seriously..  where else does this ever occur?  Is this the only exception?

I think they just decided to do it.  I'm not aware of it being done elsewhere in New Jersey or in the tristate area.  They may have figured that US 1 and US 9 and multiplexed for such a long distance that people don't even think of it as two separate routes anymore.

[roadman65]

The Simon Mall developing company that owns many shopping malls, has US 17 & 92 leaving the Parking lot of the Florida Mall in Orlando, FL as 17/92 in a shield.  In Central Florida both routes multiplexed seem to be considered as one road: Seventeen Ninetytwo and do not even think many think of it as two separate routes but as one as it is a long way to the point (especially from Orlando) where the two routes split from most of Central Florida.  In fact where US 17 & 92 are both concurrent with US 441 and SR 50, they are not even realized by many.  Orange Blossom Trail is  just US 441 or Colonial Drive is SR 50 where US 17 & 92 come in.

However, if both were one digit numbers you might see FDOT combining two route numbers into one like Simon Malls did.

Back to NJ, I think if US 202 & 206 in Somerset County were not 3 digit numbers NJDOT would consider them both for one shield as both routes equally share the limelight in their 7 mile overlap.  Further south you have the US 40 & 322 overlap where most consider the two routes as just "Route 40."  In this case you would never see it in one shield even if they both were one digits, and as far as US 130 & NJ 33 goes it could never happen for obvious reasons.

[jeffandnicole]

The Simon Mall developing company that owns many shopping malls, has US 17 & 92 leaving the Parking lot of the Florida Mall in Orlando, FL as 17/92 in a shield.  In Central Florida both routes multiplexed seem to be considered as one road: Seventeen Ninetytwo and do not even think many think of it as two separate routes but as one as it is a long way to the point (especially from Orlando) where the two routes split from most of Central Florida.  In fact where US 17 & 92 are both concurrent with US 441 and SR 50, they are not even realized by many.  Orange Blossom Trail is  just US 441 or Colonial Drive is SR 50 where US 17 & 92 come in.

However, if both were one digit numbers you might see FDOT combining two route numbers into one like Simon Malls did.

Back to NJ, I think if US 202 & 206 in Somerset County were not 3 digit numbers NJDOT would consider them both for one shield as both routes equally share the limelight in their 7 mile overlap.  Further south you have the US 40 & 322 overlap where most consider the two routes as just "Route 40."  In this case you would never see it in one shield even if they both were one digits, and as far as US 130 & NJ 33 goes it could never happen for obvious reasons.

I think I saw US 40/322 combined once, on one of those road construction signs that announces the project and the cost of the project (in other words, not an official sign).  The font was, um, small.

As for US 1&9, in a way the combo actually helps.  Usually when a road is mentioned on tv, radio or in print, only one route is mentioned when there's an overlap.  When the traffic reports/news stories mentioned US 1&9, you have a much more specific area of where they are referring.

[KEVIN_224]

At least it's not as ugly as this interstate shield combo I saw near Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis, back on August 22, 2010:



P.S. Wish those gas prices were still around now. Better than $3.919 up the street from me!

[jp the roadgeek]

Some people in CT call the Berlin Turnpike Route 5-15.  Some even just refer to it as Route 15 because Route 15 is longer in CT than US 5.  Wonder if they use the same format for the 6-15 concurrency in ME.

[Brandon]

^^ Along those same lines, I-80 and I-94 in Indiana is referred to as just "eighty ninety-four".  Same with the Indiana Toll Road which is commonly referred to as "eighty ninety".  Neither has shields with both interstate numbers on the same shield.

[KEVIN_224]

I've used both Berlin Turnpike and "5/15". However, when I worked at the Walmart on said road, we most often went with just Berlin Turnpike. I'll bet if we called it the Wilbur Cross Highway, some people would've looked at us funny.

[dgolub]

The Simon Mall developing company that owns many shopping malls, has US 17 & 92 leaving the Parking lot of the Florida Mall in Orlando, FL as 17/92 in a shield.

I've seen plenty of places where a sign posted by a private company at the exit from their property has the wrong route shield.  I guess that the people doing it don't pay all that much attention to the distinctions between different types of route classifications.

[Alps]

*notes that MD 2-4 is the only other case where the state agency is intentionally issuing hyphenated shields, instead of a city job or one-off by a developer*

[J N Winkler]

*notes that MD 2-4 is the only other case where the state agency is intentionally issuing hyphenated shields, instead of a city job or one-off by a developer*

This may be true for overlaps of single-digit routes, but it is not true of overlaps in general.  There are plenty of examples in St. Louis and Indianapolis which were installed by the state DOT and are diagrammed in construction plans.

[1995hoo]

Some people in CT call the Berlin Turnpike Route 5-15.  Some even just refer to it as Route 15 because Route 15 is longer in CT than US 5.  Wonder if they use the same format for the 6-15 concurrency in ME.

I don't think combined references in terms of how people refer to roads are all that odd. When I lived in Durham, NC, the concurrency of US-15 and US-501 (bypass route located to the west of Duke University and continuing to Chapel Hill) was invariably called "15/501." Back when I was a little kid, US-29 and US-211 had a substantial overlap in Northern Virginia and were usually called "29/211."

[roadman65]

At least it's not as ugly as this interstate shield combo I saw near Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis, back on August 22, 2010:



P.S. Wish those gas prices were still around now. Better than $3.919 up the street from me!

I am with you on that price!  Anything is better than what we have now!

[agentsteel53]

I am with you on that price!  Anything is better than what we have now!

yes, anything.  (current price + $2/gallon) is better than (current price).

[_Simon]

Like Steve pointed out, I'm specifically talking about an actual DOT using the format consistently over multiple years; not one-offs or misunderstandings as to how to sign multiplexes.  I personally think a huge contributor to the 1-9 scenario is the number of shields that historically have had to accompany 1-9 on guide signs.  (US-22, NJ-21, I-78, I-95/NJTP).  I think if the 1/9 multiplex broke apart south of Newark Airport, we would not be seeing this;  I think it's solely a product of having so many guide signs between the interchanges with I-78, the turnpike, NJ-81, it's own truck route, and the whole tunnel business.  Add to that the fact that there's also TRUCK US-1-9 which normally would have to be signed with a TRUCK banner centered over US-1/US-9 (possibly with a cardinal direction over that!). 

Or do you think it's simply because people for decades have pronounced it "1 and 9" as if it were one route number?

[roadman65]

Many New Jerseyians refer to it as the one and nine, as it has its own identity, so to save on signing costs someone in DOT decided to make it a signed route in the fields.

As far as TRUCK US 1 & 9 goes, I have seen the "T" suffix for it on some signs rather than use the Truck Banner.  Sort of like some states using A for Alternate or Arkansas using the "B" suffix instead of the BUSINESS banner.

[dgolub]

Many New Jerseyians refer to it as the one and nine, as it has its own identity, so to save on signing costs someone in DOT decided to make it a signed route in the fields.

I assume you mean "one and nine" without the definite article, since "the one and nine" would be a subway line in Manhattan that no longer exists.

As far as TRUCK US 1 & 9 goes, I have seen the "T" suffix for it on some signs rather than use the Truck Banner.  Sort of like some states using A for Alternate or Arkansas using the "B" suffix instead of the BUSINESS banner.

In state documents such as the straight line diagrams, Truck US 1/US 9 is listed as route 1T.

[roadman65]

It may be that someone copied the information on the straight line diagram to make those signs I have seen.  Yeah, I do mean one and nine as no one hardly even says Route 1 & 9  in common talk except sometimes on traffic reports, although when I lived in NJ I heard them at times say "We have a wreck on one and nine in Woodbridge" or anyplace along the duplex.  The Tonnelle Avenue stretch was always Tonnelle Avenue as many announcers would consider US 1 & US 9 to follow NJ 139 into the Holland Tunnel off the Skyway.

[jeffandnicole]

On press releases for a construction project, NJDOT consistantly referred to it as 1&9T.

http://www.state.nj.us/transportation/commuter/roads/rt1_9t/

http://www.nj.gov/transportation/about/press/2013/022113p.shtm

[roadman65]

One letter is easier to note than a whole word.  Plus, NJDOT can has a right to call the route whatever it wants.  Its not effecting what Washington calls it.  Remember, NJ uses the US and interstates numbers as State route numbers for reference.  Some states, like FL, GA, AL, and others have separate route numbers assigned to them and reference them on state paperwork as these numbers and not the federal route designations.  NJ US 1 is State Route 1 and US 22 is State Route 22, etc.  In Georgia, US 1 is State Road 4 in most of the state and the US 1 designation is for the US route network purpose only, but not identifying for state purposes.

[akotchi]

As a traffic engineer with many projects in North Jersey and who has overseen the design of "1&9" and "1-9" route markers in signing, I can say that the density of numbered routes in this area makes the "old" way of signing, i.e. using cardinal direction, "1" shield, and separate "9" shield, very cumbersome, both to the designer and to the driver, especially around the Airport (as noted upthread).  Add "Local", "Express" and "Truck" to the mix, and it really gets interesting . . .

There are places, such as up on the Skyway, where there just is not room for all the required information on the panels.  It is much easier to work with a 45x36 space (one shield) than an 84x36 space (two shields with nominal space in between).

When "1&9" was first posted in the field in, I want to say, the late 1990's, the ampersand probably looked too much like a middle digit, so the "1-9" pattern was used later.

I usually see or propose "1-9T" on construction panels, but "Truck/1-9" on permanent panels.  There are exceptions, and I have seen them in the field.  Based on my experience, the complexity of the roadway network causes a number of construction panels to remain well past their intended purpose.

Sorry for the ramble.  I just thought I would give you a bit of the designer's perspective.

[roadman65]

Thanks, but no ramble here.  It is plain and simple, and it does fit better into one sign.  Like I stated US 202 & 206 could not, but luckily US 1 and US 9 are one digits so it works well especially on roads like the Skyway and around the airport.  Plus, many do consider it one route anyway, especially non road geeks.

[txstateends]

From the archival records of this site:

This style can be seen in several spots in the Shreveport area (in a few cases, the separate US 79 and US 80 shields are used).


A few different uses of multiples over the years in New Mexico