Massachusetts now looking to do new tolls

[cpzilliacus]

TOLLROADSnews: Massachusetts now looking to do new tolls

Under a new transportation funding bill passed recently in Massachusetts the state DOT will reinstate tolls for passenger vehicles on the western end of the Turnpike - from the New York State line to Interchange 6 near Chicopee in the Springfield area. In addition the law instructs MassDOT to study and report on new tolls on the state's borders with the thought of tolling mainly interstate traffic.

[PHLBOS]

So much for the remaining tolls up to Weston (I-95/MA 128) coming down circa 2017.

[Henry]

And it doesn't end there: They're also studying the possibility of tolling other highways at the state borders (not just limited-access, but surface arterials too!). If this goes through, good luck shunpiking your way into there.

[NE2]

not just limited-access, but surface arterials too!

Wait for a more reliable source than ToLLRoaDZNeWZ before becoming outraged.

[jp the roadgeek]

And it doesn't end there: They're also studying the possibility of tolling other highways at the state borders (not just limited-access, but surface arterials too!). If this goes through, good luck shunpiking your way into there.

Already have.

US 20 NY: MA 102/ NY SR 980D to NY 22, MA/NY 295
US 7 CT: CT SR 819/MA 7A, CT/MA 41, CT 272/Norfolk Rd, CT/MA 183, CT/MA 8,
US 7 VT: MA/VT 8 to VT 9 CT/MA/US 10/202
I-91 CT: US 5, CT/MA 192, CT/MA 220, CT/MA 159, CT/MA 75, CT/MA 187, CT/MA/10 & US 202
I-91 VT: US 5, MA 10 to MA/NH 63 to NH/VT 119 to US 5
I-84: Mashapaug Rd to Holland Rd to US 20, CT/MA 32, CT/MA 19
I-395: CT/MA 12, CT/MA 193
MA/RI: 146: MA/RI 122
NH US 3: MA/NH 3A
NH I-93: MA/NH 28
RI I-295: MA/RI 120
RI I-95: US 1, US 1A
NH I-95 and NH US 1: MA/NH 1A, NH 107 to NH/MA 150
I-195: US 6, US 44
MA/RI 24: MA/RI 138, MA/RI 81

[MVHighways]

Regardless of whether this is true or not...I live near the MA/NH border in the area of US 3 and I-93, and this would really make everyone  I know upset.

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Comment added 8/4/13
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Would definitely suck big time. If it's true, probably an attempt (in part) to suck money from other states /especially NH/ to get people to do stuff (shopping etc.) in MA. For us in far northern MA it would be terrible because the closest malls are in NH (generally) and the state of MA would just want us to drive farther or pay a stupid toll.

[SidS1045]

not just limited-access, but surface arterials too!

Wait for a more reliable source than ToLLRoaDZNeWZ before becoming outraged.

No need.  Every news source in the state had the same story.

Welcome back, Taxachusetts.

[NE2]

not just limited-access, but surface arterials too!

Wait for a more reliable source than ToLLRoaDZNeWZ before becoming outraged.

No need.  Every news source in the state had the same story.

Got a link other than TRN that lists US 1 or US 20? The only non-freeway I see in this article is US 7.

"A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves."

holy fuck New Zealand

[deathtopumpkins]

I would like to see a source too. The only article I ever read on it from a news source was boston.com's article, which just said "tolls at the state line" with nothing more specific.

[Janko Dialnice]

Being that I cross the NH/MA border along US 3 for work, the proposal to set tolls at the borders does not sit well with me. But until this actually goes through, I am not going to get outraged. Maybe it might be a relatively inexpensive (say, $0.50 each way), or there might be a commuter discount for NH residents.
Besides, I don't think they could erect a toll plaza on the surface roads, anyway. In the case of where Middlesex Turnpike (Tyngsboro) turns into Daniel Webster Highway (South Nashua), there isn't enough room, especially with the shopping centers on the sides (Pheasant Lane Mall on one side, and the plaza that formerly housed the Trader Joe's on the other). Also, since people come from MA to shop in NH tax-free, such a move would more likely end up hurting the Granite State.

[PHLBOS]

Somehow, if toll booths or gantries were to be erected at the state lines; I could only see this happening along the major highways and not the local roads.

On the flip-side, I do recall reading an article a year or two ago (from the Boston Herald) that NH was proposing to place a toll booth along I-93 near the MA state line.  Needless to say the negative comments/protests largely came from neighboring Massachusetts.  But yet, if the OP's link is valid, the Bay State's now considering similar.

Wait for a more reliable source than ToLLRoaDZNeWZ before becoming outraged.

Good point.  If this were 100% valid/confrimed, then the Boston Herald would've been all over this already and Howie Carr would've had a field day reporting this.

[MVHighways]

not just limited-access, but surface arterials too!

Wait for a more reliable source than ToLLRoaDZNeWZ before becoming outraged.

No need.  Every news source in the state had the same story.

Welcome back, Taxachusetts.

Yup, Taxachusetts is back! Higher gas taxes and more!

Being that I cross the NH/MA border along US 3 for work, the proposal to set tolls at the borders does not sit well with me. But until this actually goes through, I am not going to get outraged. Maybe it might be a relatively inexpensive (say, $0.50 each way), or there might be a commuter discount for NH residents.
Besides, I don't think they could erect a toll plaza on the surface roads, anyway. In the case of where Middlesex Turnpike (Tyngsboro) turns into Daniel Webster Highway (South Nashua), there isn't enough room, especially with the shopping centers on the sides (Pheasant Lane Mall on one side, and the plaza that formerly housed the Trader Joe's on the other). Also, since people come from MA to shop in NH tax-free, such a move would more likely end up hurting the Granite State.

I live in the US 3/I-93 area and cross the line frequently. Such a move would get me outraged a lot! I wonder if they're partially doing this to hurt New Hampshire's tax free shopping and all (there are malls right off of US 3 and I-93 at the state lines).

Somehow, if toll booths or gantries were to be erected at the state lines; I could only see this happening along the major highways and not the local roads.

On the flip-side, I do recall reading an article a year or two ago (from the Boston Herald) that NH was proposing to place a toll booth along I-93 near the MA state line.  Needless to say the negative comments/protests largely came from neighboring Massachusetts.  But yet, if the OP's link is valid, the Bay State's now considering similar.

Wait for a more reliable source than ToLLRoaDZNeWZ before becoming outraged.

Good point.  If this were 100% valid/confrimed, then the Boston Herald would've been all over this already and Howie Carr would've had a field day reporting this.

NH did propose a toll along the state line back in I believe 2010...but it got cancelled due to various protests from both sides of the state line and they went with issuing bonds instead.

[Pete from Boston]

It still astounds me that they propose this before proposing tolling the actual O'Neill Tunnel users for its cost (as opposed to just tolling Mass Pike users for it). 

[MVHighways]

It still astounds me that they propose this before proposing tolling the actual O'Neill Tunnel users for its cost (as opposed to just tolling Mass Pike users for it).

Yeah, that would be a better idea because WAYY more people use that than the state line ones /save I-93 and I-95/, and there are lots of businesses on the other ends of the state lines that would suffer. What they could also do is change the HOV lane on I-93 to a HOT lane and maybe extend it a bit.

[deathtopumpkins]

Can we wait to complain about this until it's actually formally proposed? We still haven't even gotten confirmation of what locations that state will be studying tolling, if they do so at all.

[MVHighways]

Can we wait to complain about this until it's actually formally proposed? We still haven't even gotten confirmation of what locations that state will be studying tolling, if they do so at all.

We could...but it's Massachusetts and I live near the NH border and don't like this idea, so I still want to rant over it anyways.

[Alps]

Tolls:
I-90 - One time border toll. Let the locals ride their section for free, and still grab the out of state traffic.
MA 2 - No good alternatives for most traffic. The con would be relatively low volumes - is it going to cost more to put up the tollbooth and maintain it than it will ever give back?
US 20 - This would have to be located on the NY side to avoid tolling residents near the border. Will NY be okay with that?
US 7 - MA 7A would have to be cut off for this to work. But Main St. connects to 7A north of the border. I think there are too many shunpikes of approximately equal travel time for this to make sense.
US 202 - Toll it at the border, people will shift to CT 168. Toll it at the top of the notch, risk losing the land to CT where it belongs.
CT 75 and 159 - And 187, etc. etc. Too many streets to make the west side of the river work.
I-91 - Longmeadow will be pissed off by diversions onto US 5. (Can't toll 5, too many other streets.) Would have to be all-electronic in order to be effective at keeping through traffic on the road.
I-84 - Probably the best free road for a tolling candidate.
I-395 - 193 is an easy shunpike, but I don't expect it to be done en masse. 395 has moderate traffic volumes at worst, so shouldn't back up regardless of the tolling solution. But that also means lower revenue than some other locations.
RI 146 - Too much of this traffic is local and will use other streets.
I-295 and I-95 - Both or neither. I'd put the tolls between Exits 2 and 3 on 95, but it's lose-lose on 295 - put it past US 1, and you'll just dump traffic on US 1 to I-495. Put it by the border, and I-95 traffic will jump on US 1 to 295 and back onto 95. Also, regional traffic will tend to use I-84 as opposed to I-95.
I-195 - US 44, US 6, RI 114-103 - too many alternate routes
RI 24 - Already going to be a bridge toll, so why not a second one? Would have to be in RI to avoid losing traffic to MA 81 - though that would be the local traffic, not the "interstate traffic" they seek.
I-95 - US 1 gets too clogged to be effective, so this should work fine.
I-93 - The biggest drawback here is actually environmental, up at the north end. Would have to be all-electronic to avoid disturbing any right of way. Commuters will flock to NH 28, and hate themselves daily. But who cares about exiled Bostonians?
US 3 - No matter where you put the toll, traffic will use the old road to divert around it, particularly if they're commuters. People who hate tolls are already using I-93 instead of US 3 to the Everett - tolling I-93 might actually bring more traffic back here. Worth a thought.
I-91 - I don't see any road as high-volume enough between 91 and 3 to warrant consideration. 91 itself has a long distance between exits, so even though 5 is serviceable, most traffic won't bother. Do it.
US 7 - No other realistic alternatives. Do it.

[NE2]

I-91 - Longmeadow will be pissed off by diversions onto US 5. (Can't toll 5, too many other streets.) Would have to be all-electronic in order to be effective at keeping through traffic on the road.

If you really want to piss off Longmeadow, you could put a toll just to the north where US 5 hops onto I-91.

[MVHighways]

Please note, the following is my opinion here.

I-93 - The biggest drawback here is actually environmental, up at the north end. Would have to be all-electronic to avoid disturbing any right of way. Commuters will flock to NH 28, and hate themselves daily. But who cares about exiled Bostonians?

Also, do consider the locals who use it to get to relatives who are very close by, to go to the store, etc. And also the businesses in Salem - MA/NH 28 may become a notorious road for severe backups due to the shopping PLUS the shunpikers. Also...I wonder if they'd actually think of MA/NH 28 via MA 213 as a shunpike and proceed to place the toll between exits 46 and 47. That would really annoy me and my family (and many others) because my exit is 46, most of our relatives are via 47/48. Ugh. Would hate to use backroads every time.

US 3 - No matter where you put the toll, traffic will use the old road to divert around it, particularly if they're commuters. People who hate tolls are already using I-93 instead of US 3 to the Everett - tolling I-93 might actually bring more traffic back here. Worth a thought.

Would also hurt the South Nashua business district. Like MA/NH 28 in Methuen/Salem, the Middlesex Turnpike would get jammed and nobody would go there because they wouldn't want to sit in traffic.

I-95 - US 1 gets too clogged to be effective, so this should work fine.

If this is for Salisbury/Seabrook and not Attleborough/Pawtucket...give me a break. You have the Hampton tolls a few miles ahead, then you have the Maine Turnpike. All this would do is get travelers ticked off. Wrong place to put a toll given the amount of tourists. If one does go up here it had better be all electronic, or those backups Hampton used to have would return. I remember the Hampton nightmare, thank god (well technically NHDOT but whatever) they have an OTR there now, traffic is way better.

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What I think is worthy of tolling is the Big Dig. It's one of the most expensive construction projects ever, it'll be fine to toll everyone who uses it on a regular basis without hurting other states' economy, tourism, and locals. Anyways...MassDOT wants the tolls, but virtually NOT in their immediate backyard. It's like the people who want the wind farms, they'd rather have them by nice lakes and oceans than in their cities. (No offense to anybody.) It's stupid! If you want to raise revenue, don't hurt the locals of other parts of the region! Another idea...put an HOT lane on I-93 and I-90.

[NE2]

It's like the people who want the wind farms, they'd rather have them by nice lakes and oceans than in their cities. (No offense to anybody.)

WTF? It's the 1%ers who don't want wind farms by their private lakes and oceanfronts.

Would they even work in cities, or is airflow too turbulent?

[MVHighways]

It's like the people who want the wind farms, they'd rather have them by nice lakes and oceans than in their cities. (No offense to anybody.)

WTF? It's the 1%ers who don't want wind farms by their private lakes and oceanfronts.

Would they even work in cities, or is airflow too turbulent?

I really don't want to get in a big political debate here. But this is my opinion: a wind turbine would generate noise and disturb locals....plus it would decrease property value. Not a good idea in those types of areas. IMO if they wind energy supporters want these wind farms, they might as well put it in their own cities instead of piss everyone off near the lakes. Oh...and I do know there are regular people who don't want wind farms by their lakes/oceanfronts. And there's a reason.

End opinion rant.

Oh, one thing. But based on climatological data they could work in the immediate Boston metropolitan area, I think it's the windiest metro in the US (sorry Chicago). (Milton, Mass. at Blue Hill not far outside Boston is the windiest city in the US I think). However it still probably won't be too effective.

[NE2]

I really don't want to get in a big political debate here.

So why are you spouting political talking points?

[edit]Total failure on your part: http://www.cityofboston.gov/environmentalandenergy/conservation/wind.asp
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2005/05/bostons-first-wind-turbine-serves-as-example-30153

[MVHighways]

I really don't want to get in a big political debate here.

So why are you spouting political talking points?

[edit]Total failure on your part: http://www.cityofboston.gov/environmentalandenergy/conservation/wind.asp
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2005/05/bostons-first-wind-turbine-serves-as-example-30153

Whatever. I'm too tired for this.
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Anyways. To a note over the Big Dig tolling instead of the state lines, and the HOT lanes. People around here don't like traffic or fees, I wonder how well it would sit with commuters, but I think it's a great idea. You can pay $5-10 dollars and save an hour or so off rush hour commute. WHO WOULDN'T LIKE THAT? Oh yeah, the cheap@$$es of the Boston area. These same people generally want stuff as long as it is not in their backyard!

[NE2]

a wind turbine would generate noise and disturb locals....plus it would decrease property value. Not a good idea in those types of areas.

These same people generally want stuff as long as it is not in their backyard!

Am I the only one confused by the cognitive dissonance here?

PS: I think tolling the Big Dig is a great idea. But your wind farm argument is just stupid.

[froggie]

Something that has thus far been lost in this conversation:  has it been announced/reported/written WHY this tolling is being considered, and what would be done with the toll revenue?

Given that the state got saddled with a lot of cost from the Big Dig, it doesn't surprise me that they would want some toll revenue.  Along those lines, and as others have mentioned, tolling I-93 through downtown Boston would be a very good idea.

US 7 - No other realistic alternatives. Do it.

If you're referring to at the Vermont border, there are also no realistic locations to put the toll gantry.  You're basically right in the village of Williamstown once you cross the state line from Vermont.  Unless you put it south of the village, but that would defeat the purpose not to mention drivers would use MA 43 instead.