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Author Topic: I-345 in Dallas?  (Read 24420 times)

The Ghostbuster

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Re: I-345 in Dallas?
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2015, 04:48:14 PM »

Interstate 345 never should have existed. It should always either been a part of Interstate 45 or a part of US 75. Or maybe a spur from Interstate 30 (or Interstate 20 when it went through Dallas and Fort Worth).
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NE2

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Re: I-345 in Dallas?
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2015, 04:58:05 PM »

either replace them with surface boulevards or simply re-route the traffic on already burdened existing freeways
Obviously you didn't look at the plan.
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mrsman

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Re: I-345 in Dallas?
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2015, 06:53:05 PM »

I'm not from Dallas, so excuse my ignorance, but how could getting rid of this freeway make any sense?  This isn't a spur route that simply connects to a surface street.  Rather, this is a key connector from US 75 to I-30 east and I-45.

Are people supposed to just go around teh north-west-and south sides of the Downtown freeway loop?  Just keep the freeway loop open on all sides.

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rte66man

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Re: I-345 in Dallas?
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2015, 08:49:03 PM »

Much of the traffic on IH-30 is originating from or going to downtown, and this plan would make that very inconvenient.
Even if this doesn't support a complete teardown, it does justify stubbing it east of downtown, with the non-downtown traffic using the bypass.

So you are in favor of a discontinuous I-30?

So you still honk your horn at geese?

And you never answered the question.
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NE2

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Re: I-345 in Dallas?
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2015, 09:25:45 PM »

You never asked a meaningful question.
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lordsutch

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Re: I-345 in Dallas?
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2015, 09:36:59 PM »

The existing roads are a mess, but at the same time they're pretty essential and unlike (say) New Orleans through traffic needs to pass through the downtown area, particularly off-peak. Plus I'm not at all sure that the people in the way of a rerouted I-30 deserve to have the problem dumped in their laps (it looks like a lot of that corridor is parkland or wetlands already, making it a non-starter).

I tend to agree with the idea of capping I-345/US 75, like was done with the Woodall Rodgers, and fixing the mess of an interchange at I-30 and I-35E. Heck, those can then be capped too.
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NE2

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Re: I-345 in Dallas?
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2015, 09:47:20 PM »

Plus I'm not at all sure that the people in the way of a rerouted I-30 deserve to have the problem dumped in their laps (it looks like a lot of that corridor is parkland or wetlands already, making it a non-starter).
It's a railroad with mostly industrial zoning to the southeast and southwest. The wetlands can be bridged (or replaced with new wetlands elsewhere).
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lordsutch

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Re: I-345 in Dallas?
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2015, 10:03:23 PM »

It's a railroad with mostly industrial zoning to the southeast and southwest. The wetlands can be bridged (or replaced with new wetlands elsewhere).

West of the railroad is at least one park; looks like you'd have to thread I-30 between the park and a lake, and maintain the railroad. South of Scyne you have at least one neighborhood (likely with EJ issues, although I'd have to pull census maps to be sure), then more neighborhoods near where you'd need to tie into I-45 or US 175 or Trinity River Parkway.

Not saying it's impossible but burying the thing after removing some ramps would probably be simpler. Even if burying it between I-45 and Fair Park is too hard, due to part of the DART depot (I think) being under the existing highway, you could still remove the ramps to/from 1st/2nd Ave and Exposition and improve the connectivity for pedestrians (and improve traffic flow on I-30) for cheap. West of I-45, it's already depressed, so capping it wouldn't be hard.
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Anthony_JK

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Re: I-345 in Dallas?
« Reply #33 on: February 17, 2015, 02:34:53 AM »

either replace them with surface boulevards or simply re-route the traffic on already burdened existing freeways
Obviously you didn't look at the plan.

Actually I did, and it still sucks. To each his own, I guess.
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MaxConcrete

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Re: I-345 in Dallas?
« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2015, 10:16:55 PM »

TxDOT received bids (actually, one bid) earlier this month for repairs to I-345. The bid of $30.5 million was vastly lower than the $184.5 million budgeted for the project.

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/transportation/20150910-i-345-repairs-cost-a-fraction-of-what-txdot-budgeted.ece

Bid
http://www.dot.state.tx.us/insdtdot/orgchart/cmd/cserve/bidtab/09033201.htm

Obviously the scope of work is much less than originally anticipated. It is not clear to me if this work is a long-term fix or a short-term fix, since the long-term future of the structure remains an item for discussion because anti-freeway interests want it removed. I'm assuming these repairs should be good for at least 15 years.

My prediction is that the surplus funds will be redirected to the soon-to-begin Southern Gateway project, or maybe the I-635 east expansion.

Quote
I-345 repairs cost a fraction of what TxDOT budgeted

Fixing the aging and cracked Interstate 345 on downtown Dallas’ eastern edge will cost roughly one-sixth of what Texas Department of Transportation officials budgeted for the project.

TxDOT Dallas district engineer Kelly Selman announced Thursday that fixing the elevated highway connecting Central Expressway and Interstate 45 will cost about $30.5 million — a far cry from the $184.5 million budgeted.
...
Selman said the budgeted amount was for a worst-case scenario. Engineers determined after studying the road’s condition that they will have to strengthen the bridge’s support but won’t have to replace pillars or large sections of it.

“It’s just going to be a repair,” Selman said.
...
The political action group Coalition for a New Dallas hopes [the leftover] money will be set aside for the group’s chief goal: tearing down I-345 to free up undeveloped and underdeveloped land between downtown and Deep Ellum.
..

The Ghostbuster

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Re: I-345 in Dallas?
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2015, 05:26:27 PM »

Interstate 345 should remain. The freeways should be brought up to modern design standards.
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OCGuy81

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Re: I-345 in Dallas?
« Reply #36 on: September 22, 2015, 05:01:19 PM »

Sure it's been asked before, but what's the point of I-345?  Couldn't the 45 designation just be extended another mile north?
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TXtoNJ

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Re: I-345 in Dallas?
« Reply #37 on: September 22, 2015, 05:38:49 PM »

Sure it's been asked before, but what's the point of I-345?  Couldn't the 45 designation just be extended another mile north?

- Desire to end I-45 at another interstate (I-30), especially since it does not connect to another interstate in Galveston
- US 75 used to follow Central Expy and Pearl Expy streets in downtown Dallas. There was a gap between where I-45 met I-30 and where the old Central Expressway began (you can actually see some of the original roadway as the ramp from downtown Dallas).
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: I-345 in Dallas?
« Reply #38 on: July 06, 2016, 08:17:05 PM »

Is the plan to tear down 345 still an active proposal?
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Bobby5280

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Re: I-345 in Dallas?
« Reply #39 on: July 07, 2016, 01:02:34 AM »

Extend I-45 to Big Cabin, Oklahoma at the junction of I-44. That's my take on it. Screw all this tear down the freeways to make way for hipsters on bicycles smelling of patchouli nonsense. We're still a very car oriented nation. There is no way of getting around that. I'm not riding my bicycle from Lawton to freaking Oklahoma City just to have some fun. This isn't the 1800's where you make a month of a trip like that! Damn.

Tearing down freeways in Dallas (or Houston) seems really crazy. I can sort of understand the logic with the I-45 tear down plan in downtown Houston. They're going to beef up the freeway on the back side of downtown in response. I see no case of this happening with downtown Dallas. What is going to make up for removing a big chunk of I-45? It's really going to suck if I-45 ends at I-30 and the link the North Central Expressway turns into some traffic jammed bottle-neck at-grade boulevard. That would remove any chance of extending I-45 from its current downtown Dallas terminus North into Oklahoma. Believe me, that corridor along US-75 and US-69 up to Big Cabin needs to be Interstate quality. The truck traffic on that corridor is insane.
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: I-345 in Dallas?
« Reply #40 on: July 07, 2016, 05:33:45 PM »

That's all well and good Bobby5280, but I was looking for a yes/no answer to my question.
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andy3175

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Re: I-345 in Dallas?
« Reply #41 on: July 08, 2016, 12:40:27 AM »

Is the plan to tear down 345 still an active proposal?

Yes. http://www.anewdallas.com/
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MaxConcrete

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Re: I-345 in Dallas?
« Reply #42 on: October 17, 2017, 02:08:13 PM »

It looks like efforts are about to begin to plan for trenching or tunneling I-345.

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2017/10/17/dallas-might-ready-bury-downtown-highway-time

My view is that it is critical to keep I-345 in place, and trenching/tunneling is probably the only way to keep it due to the increasingly anti-freeway Dallas City Council. By getting the wheels in motion for trenching/tunneling, it assures that the freeway will be retained, even if anti-freeway extremists like councilman Philip Kingston gain more power. (He could become mayor.)

With the massive freeway expansion plans around DFW, funds are already allocated all through the 2020s so we're probably looking at the 2030s for this project, unless some big new funding becomes available.

The Ghostbuster

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Re: I-345 in Dallas?
« Reply #43 on: October 17, 2017, 05:25:33 PM »

To me, trenching or tunneling Interstate 345 would make a lot sense than getting rid of it entirely. It is a needed connection. But how much would such a project cost? And what would the right-of-way impacts be?
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TXtoNJ

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Re: I-345 in Dallas?
« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2017, 12:51:39 PM »

Elevated freeways simply don't make sense within urban cores, if those cores are to serve any purpose other than commuter traffic. This is a step in the right direction.
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silverback1065

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Re: I-345 in Dallas?
« Reply #45 on: October 18, 2017, 05:34:56 PM »

SR 366 should be signed as 345, and 45 should be extended to the state line with OK.  also people who are anti freeway are usually the people who only seem to live downtown or near enough to downtown to bike or bus everywhere.  i haven't seen any anti freeway suburbanites that have to commute downtown regularly. 
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sparker

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Re: I-345 in Dallas?
« Reply #46 on: October 19, 2017, 04:12:08 AM »

It looks like efforts are about to begin to plan for trenching or tunneling I-345.

https://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/commentary/2017/10/17/dallas-might-ready-bury-downtown-highway-time

My view is that it is critical to keep I-345 in place, and trenching/tunneling is probably the only way to keep it due to the increasingly anti-freeway Dallas City Council. By getting the wheels in motion for trenching/tunneling, it assures that the freeway will be retained, even if anti-freeway extremists like councilman Philip Kingston gain more power. (He could become mayor.)

With the massive freeway expansion plans around DFW, funds are already allocated all through the 2020s so we're probably looking at the 2030s for this project, unless some big new funding becomes available.

The tunnel/cut-&-cover concept seems to be the most workable from a regional standpoint.  While Mr. Kennedy and others may not be satisfied until mobility itself is vanquished, the simple fact is that I-345 is an integral part of the overall Dallas transportation network and needs to be preserved -- and the basic aims of urban connectivity can be achieved by trenching/tunneling the freeway, providing a "city commons" approach to the use of the "lid".  It's pretty much a "win/win" situation for all but those whose aim is to consign the driving public to a "loser" category.   Central Dallas wouldn't be much of an attraction without all those folks coming in from Plano, Frisco, and the other "burbs". 
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TXtoNJ

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Re: I-345 in Dallas?
« Reply #47 on: October 19, 2017, 01:57:30 PM »

SR 366 should be signed as 345, and 45 should be extended to the state line with OK.  also people who are anti freeway are usually the people who only seem to live downtown or near enough to downtown to bike or bus everywhere.  i haven't seen any anti freeway suburbanites that have to commute downtown regularly. 

Yeah, turns out the people who bear a disproportionate weight of costs relative to benefits don't like the freeway so much. Who knew?

And 35W should be renumbered to plain 35, 35E South, 366 and 75 North to I-135, and 45 should be duplexed with 30 and sent up to Denton on 35E north.
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kphoger

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Re: I-345 in Dallas?
« Reply #48 on: October 19, 2017, 02:00:29 PM »

Extend I-45 to Big Cabin, Oklahoma at the junction of I-44. That's my take on it. Screw all this tear down the freeways to make way for hipsters on bicycles smelling of patchouli nonsense. We're still a very car oriented nation. There is no way of getting around that. I'm not riding my bicycle from Lawton to freaking Oklahoma City just to have some fun. This isn't the 1800's where you make a month of a trip like that! Damn.

Tearing down freeways in Dallas (or Houston) seems really crazy. I can sort of understand the logic with the I-45 tear down plan in downtown Houston. They're going to beef up the freeway on the back side of downtown in response. I see no case of this happening with downtown Dallas. What is going to make up for removing a big chunk of I-45? It's really going to suck if I-45 ends at I-30 and the link the North Central Expressway turns into some traffic jammed bottle-neck at-grade boulevard. That would remove any chance of extending I-45 from its current downtown Dallas terminus North into Oklahoma. Believe me, that corridor along US-75 and US-69 up to Big Cabin needs to be Interstate quality. The truck traffic on that corridor is insane.

Wow.  Just....wow.

I actually don't refuse to drive somewhere just because there's no Interstate to get me there.  Weird, I know.
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silverback1065

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Re: I-345 in Dallas?
« Reply #49 on: October 19, 2017, 02:03:14 PM »

Extend I-45 to Big Cabin, Oklahoma at the junction of I-44. That's my take on it. Screw all this tear down the freeways to make way for hipsters on bicycles smelling of patchouli nonsense. We're still a very car oriented nation. There is no way of getting around that. I'm not riding my bicycle from Lawton to freaking Oklahoma City just to have some fun. This isn't the 1800's where you make a month of a trip like that! Damn.

Tearing down freeways in Dallas (or Houston) seems really crazy. I can sort of understand the logic with the I-45 tear down plan in downtown Houston. They're going to beef up the freeway on the back side of downtown in response. I see no case of this happening with downtown Dallas. What is going to make up for removing a big chunk of I-45? It's really going to suck if I-45 ends at I-30 and the link the North Central Expressway turns into some traffic jammed bottle-neck at-grade boulevard. That would remove any chance of extending I-45 from its current downtown Dallas terminus North into Oklahoma. Believe me, that corridor along US-75 and US-69 up to Big Cabin needs to be Interstate quality. The truck traffic on that corridor is insane.

Wow.  Just....wow.

I actually don't refuse to drive somewhere just because there's no Interstate to get me there.  Weird, I know.

what is the point of this comment? did anyone even insinuate this?
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