Unique, Odd, or Interesting Signs aka The good, the bad, and the ugly

[Rothman]

Some form of that advance signage for KBDL has been there for decades.

This version seems to have been there for decades itself, just altered a bit

I was going to say as much, it's pretty clearly button copy.

Keep in mind it's "newer" button copy that's only been around since the late 1980s or so at most.

[Declan127]

Odd use of a right turn only sign on a BGS in Brattleboro. For some reason, despite this being a town road (as far as I can tell; there's a State Highway Ends sign at the West Brattleboro line going EB and pavement changes there all the way to here, but no complementary State Highway Begins going WB), 9 is signed with a state shield instead of a circle.


Town signage for either Brattleboro or West Brattleboro (theres a corresponding sign on each side on each direction of 9, WB 1/10th of a mile and EB 2/10th of a mile from the mentioned bridge)

[cockroachking]

[image snipped]
Odd use of a right turn only sign on a BGS in Brattleboro. For some reason, despite this being a town road (as far as I can tell; there's a State Highway Ends sign at the West Brattleboro line going EB and pavement changes there all the way to here, but no complementary State Highway Begins going WB), 9 is signed with a state shield instead of a circle.

The VTrans route log confirms that this stretch is a town highway. I'm not sure why, but it doesn't appear as though signage type is 1:1 with maintenance though. Looking at the log for VT-16, state maintenance ends at the Barton village line between I-91 and US-5 (adjacent to Roaring Brook Rd), though it is both signed and logged with the green shield all the way to US-5. Meanwhile the stretch north of US-5 is town maintained, and it is signed and logged as such.

[CovalenceSTU]

Have you ever seen a green diamond sign?

Well, now you have seen two! These oddities located south of West Columbia, TX, on TX 36. Picture was taken today by yours truly.

In Camden, NJ there's a permanent one:

[wanderer2575]

"Average" weight limit on a bridge at Phoenix Mills in Hines Park in Plymouth, MI:


The Goog informed me the initials stand for Livonia Public Schools' Early Childhood Center.  Yeah, that was my next guess.  I don't understand the purpose of the sign other than an assurance that the building is always there.  There is no school zone reduced speed limit posted, although there is an End School Zone sign posted past the facility.

[Declan127]

I think maybe it's supposed to be that it's a year-round facility?

[wanderer2575]

Could be, but why would motorists, specifically, need to know that?

[Rothman]

Could be, but why would motorists, specifically, need to know that?

.

So they know higher penalties still apply in the summer.

[wanderer2575]

Could be, but why would motorists, specifically, need to know that?

.

So they know higher penalties still apply in the summer.

Penalties for what?  As I noted, there is no reduced speed limit posted.

[Declan127]

Could be, but why would motorists, specifically, need to know that?

.

So they know higher penalties still apply in the summer.

Penalties for what?  As I noted, there is no reduced speed limit posted.

If there is an end school zone sign, that implies the existence of a school zone sign.

[Dirt Roads]

The Goog informed me the initials stand for Livonia Public Schools' Early Childhood Center.  Yeah, that was my next guess.  I don't understand the purpose of the sign other than an assurance that the building is always there.  There is no school zone reduced speed limit posted, although there is an End School Zone sign posted past the facility.

I think maybe it's supposed to be that it's a year-round facility?

Could be, but why would motorists, specifically, need to know that?

So they know higher penalties still apply in the summer.

Penalties for what?  As I noted, there is no reduced speed limit posted.

If there is an end school zone sign, that implies the existence of a school zone sign.

Indeed.  Like most states, the laws in Michigan prescribe additional fines for traffic violations in school zones when school is in session.

(1) Notwithstanding any other provision of this act, a person responsible for a moving violation in a work zone, at an emergency scene, or in a school zone during the period beginning 30 minutes before school in the morning and through 30 minutes after school in the afternoon, or in a school bus zone is subject to a fine that is double the fine otherwise prescribed for that moving violation.

As your resident "safety guy", I'm somewhat concerned about the direction that this argument has drifted.  It should be obvious to everyone here that a posted school zone (or work zone) requires closer attention to the safety laws and regulations.  Just because there is no "slow zone" posted doesn't mean that you can still speed through a school zone at 10 MPH over the speed limit during posted school hours.

[Rothman]

Could be, but why would motorists, specifically, need to know that?

.

So they know higher penalties still apply in the summer.

Penalties for what?  As I noted, there is no reduced speed limit posted.

Speeding.

A little shocking, here, if you have your license.  School zones and enforcement are pretty standard nationwide.

[Declan127]

Here in NYC we have signs detailing what the school zone limit is (15 mph), not sure if that's standard nationwide

Speaking of NYC, the construction on the Van Wyck to widen the highway add an HOV lane has created some interesting signage, especially Southbound where multiple exits have been closed and either a) existing signage for the old exits have been repurposed to direct to the new exits or possibly relocated to their new exit ramps or b) put up the second street name on an existing sign in all-caps non-reflective text.

[thenetwork]

Legally, police CAN charge you a higher fine for speeding within a designated school zone area even if there is no change to the speed limit within the zone or during the entire school hours (with or without a buffer time when kids traditionally are walking to and from school).

They grey area is if they charge you the higher fines when school is not in session that day (summer break, snow day, holiday,...), you could still fight the charge in court.

This sign says that this particular school area sees student activity year-round.  But it is still open to interpretation if you get dinged for speeding if you can prove that school was not in session that day or at that particular time.

[vdeane]

Here in NYC we have signs detailing what the school zone limit is (15 mph), not sure if that's standard nationwide

Speaking of NYC, the construction on the Van Wyck to widen the highway add an HOV lane has created some interesting signage, especially Southbound where multiple exits have been closed and either a) existing signage for the old exits have been repurposed to direct to the new exits or possibly relocated to their new exit ramps or b) put up the second street name on an existing sign in all-caps non-reflective text.

Eh, not always.  The "school zone" cameras area allowed to be placed on any road within a certain distance of a school, whether a specific school speed limit is posted or not.

I've heard of the same happening with work zones, too.  NYSDOT can post a camera to enforce a speed limit in a work zone even if the speed limit isn't changed from the regular limit.  This can catch motorists off guard, particularly if limit isn't usually enforced.  Lots of people complained about entrapment when they "didn't know" about a work zone with a speed limit of 40 mph on the section of I-490 that is always 40 mph.  Just because you usually fly through the 40 mph zone at 65 with no consequences doesn't mean that you can do so when there's a work zone there!

Honestly, with the proliferation of school speed limit cameras, there should be more signage like that.  Albany enforces some of its school speed limits year-round due to summer programs, but there's no signage of such.  If you missed the news article or social media posts about it, you'd have no way of knowing whether a school speed limit needs to be obeyed in summer or not.  And if you're not from the area and don't know which schools are where, you still wouldn't.

[wanderer2575]

Indeed.  Like most states, the laws in Michigan prescribe additional fines for traffic violations in school zones when school is in session.

(1) Notwithstanding any other provision of this act, a person responsible for a moving violation in a work zone, at an emergency scene, or in a school zone during the period beginning 30 minutes before school in the morning and through 30 minutes after school in the afternoon, or in a school bus zone is subject to a fine that is double the fine otherwise prescribed for that moving violation.

But there is MCL 257.627(12):

...speed limits established under this section are not valid unless properly posted.  In the absence of a properly posted sign, the speed limit in effect is the basic speed law described in subsection (1).

And as I noted, no reduced speed limit is posted here.

As your resident "safety guy", I'm somewhat concerned about the direction that this argument has drifted.  It should be obvious to everyone here that a posted school zone (or work zone) requires closer attention to the safety laws and regulations.  Just because there is no "slow zone" posted doesn't mean that you can still speed through a school zone at 10 MPH over the speed limit during posted school hours.

I am advocating no such thing.  I am only pointing out (and I concede that I am not a lawyer) that at least in Michigan a speed limit must be posted to be valid, and whether it be by honest error or ignorance no such posting is here.  "Doesn't mean that you can still speed through a school zone at 10 MPH over the speed limit during posted school hours" -- again, I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that a cited driver contesting the citation in court because the required speed limit posting is not present would prevail.

[vdeane]

Indeed.  Like most states, the laws in Michigan prescribe additional fines for traffic violations in school zones when school is in session.

(1) Notwithstanding any other provision of this act, a person responsible for a moving violation in a work zone, at an emergency scene, or in a school zone during the period beginning 30 minutes before school in the morning and through 30 minutes after school in the afternoon, or in a school bus zone is subject to a fine that is double the fine otherwise prescribed for that moving violation.

But there is MCL 257.627(12):

...speed limits established under this section are not valid unless properly posted.  In the absence of a properly posted sign, the speed limit in effect is the basic speed law described in subsection (1).

And as I noted, no reduced speed limit is posted here.

As your resident "safety guy", I'm somewhat concerned about the direction that this argument has drifted.  It should be obvious to everyone here that a posted school zone (or work zone) requires closer attention to the safety laws and regulations.  Just because there is no "slow zone" posted doesn't mean that you can still speed through a school zone at 10 MPH over the speed limit during posted school hours.

I am advocating no such thing.  I am only pointing out (and I concede that I am not a lawyer) that at least in Michigan a speed limit must be posted to be valid, and whether it be by honest error or ignorance no such posting is here.  "Doesn't mean that you can still speed through a school zone at 10 MPH over the speed limit during posted school hours" -- again, I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that a cited driver contesting the citation in court because the required speed limit posting is not present would prevail.

It's not about the limit being different, it's about the fines for exceeding the limit being higher.

[Rothman]

My word.  I didn't expect further argument over this issue...and I doubt a judge would have as well...

[I-57/Route 66 Fan]

This sign, (I think someone goofed)
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4755703,-89.0295187,3a,15y,7.61h,92.79t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sAlI3OnYZxndOBCvUoEtaLQ!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fcb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile%26w%3D900%26h%3D600%26pitch%3D-2.7854752244287653%26panoid%3DAlI3OnYZxndOBCvUoEtaLQ%26yaw%3D7.613753323809647!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI2MDkwMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D
Note: the exit tab is on the wrong side.

[ClassicHasClass]

Alternatively, you could just swim for it. (CA 12 in Rio Vista at the southern end of northern CA 84. This sign is usually folded closed.)

[kphoger]

Indeed.  Like most states, the laws in Michigan prescribe additional fines for traffic violations in school zones when school is in session.

(1) Notwithstanding any other provision of this act, a person responsible for a moving violation in a work zone, at an emergency scene, or in a school zone during the period beginning 30 minutes before school in the morning and through 30 minutes after school in the afternoon, or in a school bus zone is subject to a fine that is double the fine otherwise prescribed for that moving violation.

But there is MCL 257.627(12):

...speed limits established under this section are not valid unless properly posted.  In the absence of a properly posted sign, the speed limit in effect is the basic speed law described in subsection (1).

And as I noted, no reduced speed limit is posted here.

Correct.  Therefore, the sign assembly is not subject to §257.627(12), because that's about speed limit signs.  The sign is indicating the beginning of a school zone, not a speed limit.  The actual speed limit sign is upstream of that assembly—here, to be precise.  Thus, the fine for speeding above the posted 45 mph would be higher than outside the school zone.

[Dirt Roads]

Indeed.  Like most states, the laws in Michigan prescribe additional fines for traffic violations in school zones when school is in session.

(1) Notwithstanding any other provision of this act, a person responsible for a moving violation in a work zone, at an emergency scene, or in a school zone during the period beginning 30 minutes before school in the morning and through 30 minutes after school in the afternoon, or in a school bus zone is subject to a fine that is double the fine otherwise prescribed for that moving violation.

But there is MCL 257.627(12):

...speed limits established under this section are not valid unless properly posted.  In the absence of a properly posted sign, the speed limit in effect is the basic speed law described in subsection (1).

And as I noted, no reduced speed limit is posted here.

Correct.  Therefore, the sign assembly is not subject to §257.627(12), because that's about speed limit signs.  The sign is indicating the beginning of a school zone, not a speed limit.  The actual speed limit sign is upstream of that assembly—here, to be precise.  Thus, the fine for speeding above the posted 45 mph would be higher than outside the school zone.

That is certainly my main point, but <wanderer2575> has a valid point that the fact that 45 MPH speed limit is not posted with the school zone muddies up my argument.  No doubt someone doing 15 MPH over the speed limit is going to get slapped with a "double fine in school zone when children present" charge.  But it would be difficult to get those same charges to stick at 10 MPH over the limit if, for instance, that sign upstream is missing or damaged.

As the "safety guy", my argument is still correct (but only enforceable if you driving a train on the tracks). 

[kphoger]

<wanderer2575> has a valid point that the fact that 45 MPH speed limit is not posted with the school zone muddies up my argument.  No doubt someone doing 15 MPH over the speed limit is going to get slapped with a "double fine in school zone when children present" charge.  But it would be difficult to get those same charges to stick at 10 MPH over the limit if, for instance, that sign upstream is missing or damaged.

As it is, traffic turning left from Laurel Park Drive doesn't have any indication that there's even a school zone at all, let alone what the speed limit is.  Then again, that's normal, isn't it?  Traffic turning into a school zone from a cross-street doesn't generally face any signage telling them anything, does it?

[darmstarm]

Here's two I know of near me.

1) Kennett Square, PA, leaving Greenwood Rd near Longwood Gardens has this... interesting US shield pattern for US 1. There at least since 2023? Not entirely sure if it was ever fixed.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/KZNTGMUHqZK4CkTBA

It seems like it used to be correct, but some time before 2017 they updated the sign since the number wore off.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/YjXW1RSB6MGdQWA8A

2) West Grove, PA, has a PA841 sign that's a PA842 with a "1" pasted over the "2". Somehow has been there since at least 2009. Drove past this late August and it is still there.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/tk4iPnc1Kdn5GoubA

[hbelkins]

Here's two I know of near me.

1) Kennett Square, PA, leaving Greenwood Rd near Longwood Gardens has this... interesting US shield pattern for US 1. There at least since 2023? Not entirely sure if it was ever fixed.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/KZNTGMUHqZK4CkTBA

That's a Pennsylvania acorn and they're more common than you might think.