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Author Topic: Most intersections between the same two routes?  (Read 1407 times)

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Re: Most intersections between the same two routes?
« Reply #50 on: February 10, 2020, 07:24:21 PM »

Can I have some pi?
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TheGrassGuy

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Re: Most intersections between the same two routes?
« Reply #51 on: February 10, 2020, 07:26:29 PM »

Can I have some pi?
If the OP thinks that trumpet interchanges are not direct, then yes, we may sit down for some pi in Virginia.
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cl94

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Re: Most intersections between the same two routes?
« Reply #52 on: February 10, 2020, 07:27:51 PM »

Which of the "indirect-ish" interchanges did you count?

Exits 8, 9, 10 in NY have at least 2 ramps connecting directly to US 11, so they count. Still tied with US 1 and I-95.
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webny99

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Re: Most intersections between the same two routes?
« Reply #53 on: February 10, 2020, 07:33:23 PM »

I count Exit 12, too. Still wavering on some of the others, like 2W.

Exit 6 could conceivably count twice: there is 2 crossings, and 2 ramps for each crossing.
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hbelkins

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Re: Most intersections between the same two routes?
« Reply #54 on: February 11, 2020, 10:07:04 AM »

Clarifications to my original criteria.

Partial interchanges do count.

Trumpet interchanges that connect directly to the intersecting route do count. The best example that comes immediately to mind is the US 522 Fort Littleton interchange with I-76/PA Turnpike. I believe I-81's interchange with US 11 on the south side of Harrisonburg would also qualify.
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froggie

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Re: Most intersections between the same two routes?
« Reply #55 on: February 12, 2020, 07:35:36 AM »

^ HB, how would you classify I-91 Exit 3 in Brattleboro, VT?  I ask because there are a couple of driveways before one gets to the roundabout at US 5/VT 9 East.
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X99

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Re: Most intersections between the same two routes?
« Reply #56 on: February 12, 2020, 10:56:20 AM »

I can't find anything in South Dakota more than SD 240 having both endpoints at I-90. Both major US routes that followed current Interstate routings (16 and 77) were decommissioned when the Interstates (90 and 29, respectively) were finished.
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hbelkins

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Re: Most intersections between the same two routes?
« Reply #57 on: February 12, 2020, 11:02:44 AM »

^ HB, how would you classify I-91 Exit 3 in Brattleboro, VT?  I ask because there are a couple of driveways before one gets to the roundabout at US 5/VT 9 East.

What's VTrans' internal designation for that connector? Is it considered part of the exit?
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Re: Most intersections between the same two routes?
« Reply #58 on: February 12, 2020, 01:54:17 PM »

Meh..."Brattleboro State Highway" (unnumbered state highway)...
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TheStranger

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Re: Most intersections between the same two routes?
« Reply #59 on: February 12, 2020, 02:47:58 PM »

I’m sure on the exact amount of times but CA 1 intersecting US 101 in California is the most common instance here. 

If you count a (consistently) signed concurrency as a single intersecting point, the US 101/CA 1 combination has 7 intersections.  Within CA, the only other combination that comes remotely close is I-5 and CA 33 with 4 intersecting points. 

The specific US 101/Route 1 examples I can think of:

Exit 60 in Oxnard (not well signed) - Rice Avenue
Exit 72 (Emma Wood State Beach)
Exit 78 (Emma Wood State Beach)
Exit 132 in Las Cruces
Exit 191B in Pismo Beach - Price Street/Business US 101
Exit 203A in San Luis Obispo
Exit 438 in San Francisco - Park Presidio Boulevard to 19th Avenue
Exit 445B north of Marin City

---

For comparison, here is Route 33 and I-5:

Exit 337 - Route 145/Coalinga
Exit 349
Exit 403A/B - Route 152 in Santa Nella (to Los Banos and Gilroy)
Exit 407 - Santa Nella
Exit 452 - north terminus in Vernalis
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Chris Sampang

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Re: Most intersections between the same two routes?
« Reply #60 on: February 12, 2020, 03:28:56 PM »

I’m sure on the exact amount of times but CA 1 intersecting US 101 in California is the most common instance here. 

If you count a (consistently) signed concurrency as a single intersecting point, the US 101/CA 1 combination has 7 intersections.  Within CA, the only other combination that comes remotely close is I-5 and CA 33 with 4 intersecting points. 

The specific US 101/Route 1 examples I can think of:

Exit 60 in Oxnard (not well signed) - Rice Avenue
Exit 72 (Emma Wood State Beach)
Exit 78 (Emma Wood State Beach)
Exit 132 in Las Cruces
Exit 191B in Pismo Beach - Price Street/Business US 101
Exit 203A in San Luis Obispo
Exit 438 in San Francisco - Park Presidio Boulevard to 19th Avenue
Exit 445B north of Marin City

---

For comparison, here is Route 33 and I-5:

Exit 337 - Route 145/Coalinga
Exit 349
Exit 403A/B - Route 152 in Santa Nella (to Los Banos and Gilroy)
Exit 407 - Santa Nella
Exit 452 - north terminus in Vernalis

Does Rice Avenue technically count given it isn’t “really under state maintenance” at present moment?  Granted the difference is made up where CA 1 ends at US 101 in Leggett. 
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TheStranger

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Re: Most intersections between the same two routes?
« Reply #61 on: February 12, 2020, 03:36:59 PM »



Does Rice Avenue technically count given it isn’t “really under state maintenance” at present moment?  Granted the difference is made up where CA 1 ends at US 101 in Leggett. 

That one is tricky, because does this mean Oxnard Boulevard is still the Route 1/US 101 junction?  Or does this mean that Route 1 essentially is a spur from wherever state maintenance ends near Santa Monica to the south city limits of Oxnard?

(Of course, some portions of relinquished Route 1 between Santa Monica and LAX are better signed than some state-maintained state routes here!)

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Chris Sampang

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Re: Most intersections between the same two routes?
« Reply #62 on: February 12, 2020, 05:21:48 PM »



Does Rice Avenue technically count given it isn’t “really under state maintenance” at present moment?  Granted the difference is made up where CA 1 ends at US 101 in Leggett. 

That one is tricky, because does this mean Oxnard Boulevard is still the Route 1/US 101 junction?  Or does this mean that Route 1 essentially is a spur from wherever state maintenance ends near Santa Monica to the south city limits of Oxnard?

(Of course, some portions of relinquished Route 1 between Santa Monica and LAX are better signed than some state-maintained state routes here!)

Personally I’d count it if the Route was signed no matter who maintained it.  Regarding Rice what we know for sure is that it is in the definition of 1 but isn’t part of state maintenance.  If 1 becomes signed on Rice no matter even if it’s Ventura County signing it I would say at that point it is a legitimate part of the highway. 

That brings up an interesting side thought regarding relinquishment in California.  I know technically in most relinquishment agreements the term “no longer a state highway is applied.”  That said, many of those same relinquishment agreements require the local authority to maintain continuation signage (even though some places are better than others).   Under that description I would still say that the State Highway exists by definition but simply isn’t state maintained.  In that sense something like CA 130 on Alum Rock in San Jose functionally exists even though all the signage has been removed and the city maintains it. 
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Re: Most intersections between the same two routes?
« Reply #63 on: February 13, 2020, 11:41:52 AM »

Meh..."Brattleboro State Highway" (unnumbered state highway)...

Is VTrans ever going to officially move 9 to follow 91 around Brattleboro?

kphoger

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Re: Most intersections between the same two routes?
« Reply #64 on: February 13, 2020, 01:10:36 PM »



Does Rice Avenue technically count given it isn’t “really under state maintenance” at present moment?  Granted the difference is made up where CA 1 ends at US 101 in Leggett. 

That one is tricky, because does this mean Oxnard Boulevard is still the Route 1/US 101 junction?  Or does this mean that Route 1 essentially is a spur from wherever state maintenance ends near Santa Monica to the south city limits of Oxnard?

(Of course, some portions of relinquished Route 1 between Santa Monica and LAX are better signed than some state-maintained state routes here!)

Personally I’d count it if the Route was signed no matter who maintained it.  Regarding Rice what we know for sure is that it is in the definition of 1 but isn’t part of state maintenance.  If 1 becomes signed on Rice no matter even if it’s Ventura County signing it I would say at that point it is a legitimate part of the highway. 

That brings up an interesting side thought regarding relinquishment in California.  I know technically in most relinquishment agreements the term “no longer a state highway is applied.”  That said, many of those same relinquishment agreements require the local authority to maintain continuation signage (even though some places are better than others).   Under that description I would still say that the State Highway exists by definition but simply isn’t state maintained.  In that sense something like CA 130 on Alum Rock in San Jose functionally exists even though all the signage has been removed and the city maintains it. 

In my opinion, all of these edge cases count for the intent and purpose of the thread.  Imagine if one route were a blue cord and the other were a red cord.  The question is how many times do the cords cross.  Who maintains what etc shouldn't really matter for this thought exercise.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: Most intersections between the same two routes?
« Reply #65 on: February 13, 2020, 04:16:36 PM »



Does Rice Avenue technically count given it isn’t “really under state maintenance” at present moment?  Granted the difference is made up where CA 1 ends at US 101 in Leggett. 

That one is tricky, because does this mean Oxnard Boulevard is still the Route 1/US 101 junction?  Or does this mean that Route 1 essentially is a spur from wherever state maintenance ends near Santa Monica to the south city limits of Oxnard?

(Of course, some portions of relinquished Route 1 between Santa Monica and LAX are better signed than some state-maintained state routes here!)

Personally I’d count it if the Route was signed no matter who maintained it.  Regarding Rice what we know for sure is that it is in the definition of 1 but isn’t part of state maintenance.  If 1 becomes signed on Rice no matter even if it’s Ventura County signing it I would say at that point it is a legitimate part of the highway. 

That brings up an interesting side thought regarding relinquishment in California.  I know technically in most relinquishment agreements the term “no longer a state highway is applied.”  That said, many of those same relinquishment agreements require the local authority to maintain continuation signage (even though some places are better than others).   Under that description I would still say that the State Highway exists by definition but simply isn’t state maintained.  In that sense something like CA 130 on Alum Rock in San Jose functionally exists even though all the signage has been removed and the city maintains it. 

In my opinion, all of these edge cases count for the intent and purpose of the thread.  Imagine if one route were a blue cord and the other were a red cord.  The question is how many times do the cords cross.  Who maintains what etc shouldn't really matter for this thought exercise.

Normally I would agree but the case of Rice and CA 1 is unique.  Technically Rice Avenue never has been part of CA 1 nor signed as it.  At present moment Rice Avenue is “the future” CA 1 which only will technically happen when it gets transferred to State Maintenance.  I don’t believe the former state highway on Oxnard Boulevard still has CA 1 shields still posted.  So really until the state takes over Rice Avenue can it really be considered part of CA 1?  Nonetheless US 101/CA 1 regardless intersect far more than any other pair of signed highways in California. 

Edit:  Here is what the Legislative description of CA 1 has to say regarding Oxnard:

“The relinquished former portions of Route 1 within the Cities of Dana Point, Newport Beach, Santa Monica, and Oxnard are not state highways and are not eligible for adoption under Section 81. For those relinquished former portions of Route 1, the Cities of Dana Point, Newport Beach, Santa Monica, and Oxnard shall maintain within their respective jurisdictions signs directing motorists to the continuation of Route 1. The City of Newport Beach shall ensure the continuity of traffic flow on the relinquished portions of Route 1 within its jurisdiction, including, but not limited to, any traffic signal progression.”

So in that sense it would seem CA 1 still functionally exists in Oxnard Boulevard regardless of who maintains it. 
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 04:19:11 PM by Max Rockatansky »
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froggie

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Re: Most intersections between the same two routes?
« Reply #66 on: February 14, 2020, 10:37:06 AM »

Meh..."Brattleboro State Highway" (unnumbered state highway)...

Is VTrans ever going to officially move 9 to follow 91 around Brattleboro?

Extremely unlikely.
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