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New Jersey Turnpike

Started by hotdogPi, December 22, 2013, 09:04:24 PM

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jeffandnicole

Back in the 2017 Annual Budget for the NJTA, https://www.njta.gov/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/fin_ann_bdg_2017.pdf , on PDF Page 110 of 177 of the report (Page 103 as printed in the report), a 695 and 895 was discussed for the NJ Turnpike.  However, it does hint that an approval of 695 doesn't obligate the NJTA establish 695, which would seem to mean not signing it.

QuoteThe effort also includes an application by the Authority to AASHTO for the permission to make additional changes for a potential I-695 and I-895.  Submission and subsequent approval, if granted, is not an obligation that the Authority establish I-695 and I-895.  Rather, decisions made by AASHTO dictate how the aforementioned mileposts and exit numbering systems are to be studied.


Beltway

#5501
People keep talking about I‑695 like it would have "reduced confusion," but there's no confusion to reduce. The Turnpike has been signed as I‑95 on both alignments for fifty years, and drivers navigate it just fine because they don't use the Interstate number to make decisions. They use the Turnpike exit numbers and the control cities. That's the entire user experience.

The Turnpike identity overrides the Interstate identity. People follow "Turnpike North / Turnpike South," not "I‑95 Alignment A vs. Alignment B."

Renumbering only makes sense when it fixes a real navigation problem. Here, it would do the opposite. You'd be taking a road everyone already understands as "the Turnpike" and slapping a new number on it that doesn't match the exit numbers, doesn't match the toll system, and doesn't match how apps present the route. That's not a clarification -- that's a self‑inflicted mess.

The only people who think the two alignments need separate numbers are the people who stare at route logs. Motorists don't care, and the Turnpike's own signage philosophy is built around making sure they never have to. That's why NJTA never followed through on the application. There was nothing to gain and plenty to break.
Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

Rothman

I'm not so sure that there's been no confusion, especially before the advent of navigation apps.  I'd imagine most people didn't know that I-95 was discontinuous for all those years.  At least, until any of them had to actually navigate through the gap (have no idea how many accidentally stayed on I-95 coming from the south).

As a usual long term traveler on the NJ Turnpike, for a lot of years, it was just following the lit-up "Best Route" arrow or whatever it was labeled.  But, if I was actually headed somewhere in NYC or northern NJ, it does get a little disorienting if you actually have to track which leg of I-95 you actually want to be on.

I think adding a route number would help with navigation.  It'd be a relatively simple improvement.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Beltway

The confusion you're describing isn't caused by the lack of a second route number -- it's caused by people trying to navigate the Turnpike as if it were a normal Interstate. It isn't. It's a controlled‑access toll facility with its own internal logic, and the signage reflects that.

Before GPS nav systems, nobody was following "I‑95 North" through the Turnpike like a cross‑country freeway. They were following: Turnpike North / Turnpike South, exit numbers, Control cities, best route signs. That's how the Authority designed the user experience, and it worked because the Turnpike is functionally a single facility with two parallel mainline alignments --not a mainline plus a loop.

Adding a second route number doesn't fix the issue you're describing because the issue isn't numerical ambiguity. It's that the Turnpike's geometry is unusual, and people who don't drive it often try to force Interstate logic onto a toll‑road system that doesn't use it.

If you slap "I‑695" or "I‑95E" on the Easterly Alignment, you don't make navigation clearer. You just introduce a brand‑new number that: isn't used in wayfinding, isn't used in Turnpike signage, isn't used in exit numbering, isn't used in driver mental models. The Turnpike's own system already tells you which leg to take: Lincoln Tunnel vs. GW Bridge, Meadowlands vs. Newark/Jersey City. That's what drivers respond to. A second route number would be a cosmetic change that doesn't actually solve the problem you're describing.

When an Interstate number is creating a real user‑facing problem, changing it makes perfect sense. Washington and Boston are the classic cases: both cities canceled their I‑95 inner‑city segments, which left the original numbering geometry completely broken. Drivers were following a number that no longer led where the grid said it should. Renumbering wasn't cosmetic -- it fixed a genuine continuity error.

Same with Philadelphia. The I‑76/I‑676 swap wasn't done for fun; it corrected a situation where the Schuylkill Expressway carried a spur number while the Vine Street Expressway carried the mainline. That was backwards from how motorists actually used the roads. The swap aligned the numbering with real‑world traffic patterns. Those are the situations where a renumbering improves clarity, restores continuity, or corrects a mismatch between the grid and the facility.

The Turnpike simply isn't one of those situations. There's no broken continuity, no spur/mainline mismatch, no user‑facing defect that a new number would fix. The dual alignments already function as two branches of the same facility, and drivers navigate them by control cities, not by Interstate numbers. That's why renumbering the Turnpike would be a solution in search of a problem.
Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

chrisg69911

Quote from: Beltway on February 08, 2026, 01:50:50 PMPeople keep talking about I‑695 like it would have "reduced confusion," but there's no confusion to reduce. The Turnpike has been signed as I‑95 on both alignments for fifty years, and drivers navigate it just fine because they don't use the Interstate number to make decisions. They use the Turnpike exit numbers and the control cities. That's the entire user experience.

The Turnpike identity overrides the Interstate identity. People follow "Turnpike North / Turnpike South," not "I‑95 Alignment A vs. Alignment B."

Renumbering only makes sense when it fixes a real navigation problem. Here, it would do the opposite. You'd be taking a road everyone already understands as "the Turnpike" and slapping a new number on it that doesn't match the exit numbers, doesn't match the toll system, and doesn't match how apps present the route. That's not a clarification -- that's a self‑inflicted mess.

The only people who think the two alignments need separate numbers are the people who stare at route logs. Motorists don't care, and the Turnpike's own signage philosophy is built around making sure they never have to. That's why NJTA never followed through on the application. There was nothing to gain and plenty to break.

I feel like it would help for NJ residents, differentiating between the Eastern spur and Western spur would be helpful. There's literally no indication of which is which, and as someone who only uses the Western spur, trying to remember to follow the GWB signs is annoying.

NJRoadfan

The I-695 designation might have been to clarify things if the Turnpike ever goes to milepost based exits (which has its own issues). The east/west spur setup is weird and unique among highways.

Now that I-95 is complete, there has been a push to actually post reassurance markers on the roadway and pair I-95 trailblazers with NJTP ones on surrounding roads. Modern navigation systems emphasize route numbers in guidance, so when someone approaches the split, how is it going to be signed? Using E and W suffixes help with the exits, but they got burned on Exit 15X.

They also now actually sign control cities, but that is likely part of the switchover to MUTCD signing.

vdeane

Quote from: Beltway on February 08, 2026, 03:28:41 PMThe confusion you're describing isn't caused by the lack of a second route number -- it's caused by people trying to navigate the Turnpike as if it were a normal Interstate. It isn't. It's a controlled‑access toll facility with its own internal logic, and the signage reflects that.

Before GPS nav systems, nobody was following "I‑95 North" through the Turnpike like a cross‑country freeway. They were following: Turnpike North / Turnpike South, exit numbers, Control cities, best route signs. That's how the Authority designed the user experience, and it worked because the Turnpike is functionally a single facility with two parallel mainline alignments --not a mainline plus a loop.

Adding a second route number doesn't fix the issue you're describing because the issue isn't numerical ambiguity. It's that the Turnpike's geometry is unusual, and people who don't drive it often try to force Interstate logic onto a toll‑road system that doesn't use it.

If you slap "I‑695" or "I‑95E" on the Easterly Alignment, you don't make navigation clearer. You just introduce a brand‑new number that: isn't used in wayfinding, isn't used in Turnpike signage, isn't used in exit numbering, isn't used in driver mental models. The Turnpike's own system already tells you which leg to take: Lincoln Tunnel vs. GW Bridge, Meadowlands vs. Newark/Jersey City. That's what drivers respond to. A second route number would be a cosmetic change that doesn't actually solve the problem you're describing.

When an Interstate number is creating a real user‑facing problem, changing it makes perfect sense. Washington and Boston are the classic cases: both cities canceled their I‑95 inner‑city segments, which left the original numbering geometry completely broken. Drivers were following a number that no longer led where the grid said it should. Renumbering wasn't cosmetic -- it fixed a genuine continuity error.

Same with Philadelphia. The I‑76/I‑676 swap wasn't done for fun; it corrected a situation where the Schuylkill Expressway carried a spur number while the Vine Street Expressway carried the mainline. That was backwards from how motorists actually used the roads. The swap aligned the numbering with real‑world traffic patterns. Those are the situations where a renumbering improves clarity, restores continuity, or corrects a mismatch between the grid and the facility.

The Turnpike simply isn't one of those situations. There's no broken continuity, no spur/mainline mismatch, no user‑facing defect that a new number would fix. The dual alignments already function as two branches of the same facility, and drivers navigate them by control cities, not by Interstate numbers. That's why renumbering the Turnpike would be a solution in search of a problem.
You might want to be advised that the New Jersey Turnpike has been replacing its traffic control to match the MUTCD.  Most guide signs are now MUTCD-compliant (aside from the exit numbers being sequential and following the Turnpike rather than I-95), with the old style signs being limited to south of exit 8A.  They don't even use the traditional line striping anymore - new striping is the standard MUTCD length.

Rumor has it there's a plan to potentially switch to mile-based numbers at some point in the future.  Something tells me the western/eastern split wouldn't function as well if the exit numbers were MUTCD compliant rather than being thinks like 16E and 16W.

I wouldn't be surprised if all of this is connected, potentially even including conversion to all-electronic tolling.  If all the signs were replaced with the new style and the closed ticket system went away with an AET conversion similar to other toll roads, that would be a time that would make sense to switch to mile-based exit numbers and designate I-695, were they to do so.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Rothman

Yeah, having driven through the split for decades, I don't see how Beltway's argument negates the benefits of adding a 3di.  Much better than the "TO I-80/US 46" or whatever it says now.  Would make it easier for map or app interpretation as well:  No more ambiguity about which spur goes where per the BGSes.

Like I said, minimal investment for tangible benefit...not that NJTA is pursuing it...yet.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

The Ghostbuster

#5508
If there had been any interest in doing so, perhaps the 695 or 895 designation could have been applied to the unsigned NJ 700 segment of the New Jersey Turnpike (of course this would be after the originally-proposed 695 and 895 were cancelled). I do realize this is as likely to happen as making NJ 42 and the Atlantic City Expressway an extension of Interstate 76.

SignBridge

#5509
Well the NJTA should either act or get off the pot. Those signs northbound around Exit 15 showing the legend for the eastern route as 80-West, Lincoln Tunnel, need to have a clarifying Interstate shield installed so it will stop looking like 80-West goes to the Lincoln Tunnel. I believe the original intent was to apply the new 695-North shields on the blank panel there but if that idea is now abandoned, then an I-95 or possibly a NJ-495 shield should go there. And it should have been done before this.

The old signage was clearer. This is not the NJTA I used to know. They used to be more focused when they just ran the Turnpike and a separate agency ran the G.S. Parkway. So much for large bureaucracies.
.

ElishaGOtis

#5510
Cases like this are why I wish AASHTO didn't ban suffixed routes that eventually meet back up. I can understand the confusion regarding route that simply terminate (*cough* I-14, I-27, I-69, I-480), given that a bunch were removed like I-24 (exceedingly stupid), I-70 (tolerable), I-80 (varies from tolerable to kinda stupid), etc.

I-95E and I-95W would have been a good use here imho... especially considering a) the exit numbers reflect E/W (except for 15X) and b) some maps even show them as such... not to get into fictional territory but I did want to point this out (maps showing it and all...).
I can drive 55 ONLY when it makes sense.

NOTE: Opinions expressed here on AARoads are solely my own and do not represent or reflect the statements, opinions, or decisions of any agency. Any official information I share will be quoted or specified from another source.

My ideal speed limits (FAKE/FICTIONAL NOT OFFICIAL) :
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1Ia4RR_BaYyzgJq4n3JcYzkNZjLYKzGQ

NJRoadfan

NJDOT inventories the western spur as "I-95W" as they always considered the original alignment as I-95. NJTA considers the western spur as mainline I-95 and heavily suggests (more so now with recent sign replacements) that thru traffic take that way.

vdeane

Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 08, 2026, 07:13:15 PMIf there had been any interest in doing so, perhaps the 695 or 895 designation could have been applied to the unsigned NJ 700 segment of the New Jersey Turnpike (of course this would be after the originally-proposed 695 and 895 were cancelled). I do realize this is as likely to happen as making NJ 42 and the Atlantic City Expressway an extension of Interstate 76.
The quote below gave me pause.  I was under the impression that they were only looking at I-695 for the eastern alignment, but maybe not...

QuoteThe effort also includes an application by the Authority to AASHTO for the permission to make additional changes for a potential I-695 and I-895.  Submission and subsequent approval, if granted, is not an obligation that the Authority establish I-695 and I-895.  Rather, decisions made by AASHTO dictate how the aforementioned mileposts and exit numbering systems are to be studied.



Quote from: ElishaGOtis on February 08, 2026, 07:48:05 PMCases like this are why I wish AASHTO didn't ban suffixed routes that eventually meet back up. I can understand the confusion regarding route that simply terminate (*cough* I-14, I-27, I-69, I-480), given that a bunch were removed like I-24 (exceedingly stupid), I-70 (tolerable), I-80 (varies from tolerable to kinda stupid), etc.

I-95E and I-95W would have been a good use here imho... especially considering a) the exit numbers reflect E/W (except for 15X) and b) some maps even show them as such... not to get into fictional territory but I did want to point this out (maps showing it and all...).
I hate suffixed routes because I like there to be a definitive alignment that can be clinched.  That said, the western/eastern split on the New Jersey Turnpike is the one place on the system where I'd be fine with them.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

ElishaGOtis

Quote from: vdeane on February 08, 2026, 08:48:58 PM
Quote from: The Ghostbuster on February 08, 2026, 07:13:15 PMIf there had been any interest in doing so, perhaps the 695 or 895 designation could have been applied to the unsigned NJ 700 segment of the New Jersey Turnpike (of course this would be after the originally-proposed 695 and 895 were cancelled). I do realize this is as likely to happen as making NJ 42 and the Atlantic City Expressway an extension of Interstate 76.
The quote below gave me pause.  I was under the impression that they were only looking at I-695 for the eastern alignment, but maybe not...

QuoteThe effort also includes an application by the Authority to AASHTO for the permission to make additional changes for a potential I-695 and I-895.  Submission and subsequent approval, if granted, is not an obligation that the Authority establish I-695 and I-895.  Rather, decisions made by AASHTO dictate how the aforementioned mileposts and exit numbering systems are to be studied.



Quote from: ElishaGOtis on February 08, 2026, 07:48:05 PMCases like this are why I wish AASHTO didn't ban suffixed routes that eventually meet back up. I can understand the confusion regarding route that simply terminate (*cough* I-14, I-27, I-69, I-480), given that a bunch were removed like I-24 (exceedingly stupid), I-70 (tolerable), I-80 (varies from tolerable to kinda stupid), etc.

I-95E and I-95W would have been a good use here imho... especially considering a) the exit numbers reflect E/W (except for 15X) and b) some maps even show them as such... not to get into fictional territory but I did want to point this out (maps showing it and all...).
I hate suffixed routes because I like there to be a definitive alignment that can be clinched.  That said, the western/eastern split on the New Jersey Turnpike is the one place on the system where I'd be fine with them.

Regarding interstates, I always would reference the route maintaining the mile markers, but that's just me lol  :spin:

I know some are picky and would prefer a full clinch to include both branches, buuuuuuut that could be kind of a stretch for some routes imho...
I can drive 55 ONLY when it makes sense.

NOTE: Opinions expressed here on AARoads are solely my own and do not represent or reflect the statements, opinions, or decisions of any agency. Any official information I share will be quoted or specified from another source.

My ideal speed limits (FAKE/FICTIONAL NOT OFFICIAL) :
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1Ia4RR_BaYyzgJq4n3JcYzkNZjLYKzGQ

Beltway

Quote from: vdeane on February 08, 2026, 04:29:21 PMYou might want to be advised that the New Jersey Turnpike has been replacing its traffic control to match the MUTCD.  Most guide signs are now MUTCD-compliant (aside from the exit numbers being sequential and following the Turnpike rather than I-95), with the old style signs being limited to south of exit 8A.  They don't even use the traditional line striping anymore - new striping is the standard MUTCD length.
Rumor has it there's a plan to potentially switch to mile-based numbers at some point in the future.  Something tells me the western/eastern split wouldn't function as well if the exit numbers were MUTCD compliant rather than being thinks like 16E and 16W.
I wouldn't be surprised if all of this is connected, potentially even including conversion to all-electronic tolling.  If all the signs were replaced with the new style and the closed ticket system went away with an AET conversion similar to other toll roads, that would be a time that would make sense to switch to mile-based exit numbers and designate I-695, were they to do so.
The MUTCD‑compliant sign replacements don't change the underlying logic of how the Turnpike works. The Authority can modernize fonts, layouts, striping, and even convert to AET without altering the fact that the Turnpike is a single toll facility with two parallel mainline alignments. MUTCD compliance affects presentation, not navigation logic.

Mile‑based exit numbers wouldn't change that either. Plenty of toll roads use mileposts while still maintaining internal numbering logic that doesn't map cleanly onto the Interstate grid. The Turnpike's split at 15E/15W or 16E/16W works because drivers choose based on control cities -- GW Bridge vs. Lincoln Tunnel, Meadowlands vs. Newark/Jersey City -- not because of the alphanumeric suffixes.

And even if the Turnpike eventually goes all‑electronic, that still doesn't create a continuity problem that a new number would fix. Renumberings like Boston, Washington, or the I‑76/I‑676 swap solved real defects in the grid. The Turnpike doesn't have one. Both alignments are mainline, both carry I‑95, both use Turnpike exit numbers, and both are understood by drivers as "the Turnpike," not as separate highways.

Modernizing signs or tolling doesn't magically create a need for I‑695. It just updates the hardware. The underlying user experience -- choose your spur by destination, not by number-- remains the same.
Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

roadman65

It really never caused issues to have both spurs as I-95 as far as I know.  Most New Jersians referred to the Turnpike as " The Turnpike" and never said I or Route 95 in talk.

Internally for inventory does make sense, but only that. It's fine to keep I-695 like MD keeps I-595, but using the control cities is fine.  Both are equally the NJ Turnpike despite them being called Spurs.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

1995hoo

Quote from: Beltway on February 08, 2026, 03:28:41 PM....

Before GPS nav systems, nobody was following "I‑95 North" through the Turnpike like a cross‑country freeway. They were following: Turnpike North / Turnpike South, exit numbers, Control cities, best route signs. That's how the Authority designed the user experience, and it worked because the Turnpike is functionally a single facility with two parallel mainline alignments --not a mainline plus a loop.

....

You might have been surprised at how many people thought they were following I-95 the entire way when they used the Delaware Memorial Bridge/New Jersey Turnpike combination to go from DC to New York. I'm not saying they were right, of course—just that there were a surprising number of people who genuinely believed that entire route was I-95 (never mind the big green signs in Delaware plainly showing otherwise).
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

vdeane

Quote from: Beltway on February 08, 2026, 10:45:33 PM
Quote from: vdeane on February 08, 2026, 04:29:21 PMYou might want to be advised that the New Jersey Turnpike has been replacing its traffic control to match the MUTCD.  Most guide signs are now MUTCD-compliant (aside from the exit numbers being sequential and following the Turnpike rather than I-95), with the old style signs being limited to south of exit 8A.  They don't even use the traditional line striping anymore - new striping is the standard MUTCD length.
Rumor has it there's a plan to potentially switch to mile-based numbers at some point in the future.  Something tells me the western/eastern split wouldn't function as well if the exit numbers were MUTCD compliant rather than being thinks like 16E and 16W.
I wouldn't be surprised if all of this is connected, potentially even including conversion to all-electronic tolling.  If all the signs were replaced with the new style and the closed ticket system went away with an AET conversion similar to other toll roads, that would be a time that would make sense to switch to mile-based exit numbers and designate I-695, were they to do so.
The MUTCD‑compliant sign replacements don't change the underlying logic of how the Turnpike works. The Authority can modernize fonts, layouts, striping, and even convert to AET without altering the fact that the Turnpike is a single toll facility with two parallel mainline alignments. MUTCD compliance affects presentation, not navigation logic.

Mile‑based exit numbers wouldn't change that either. Plenty of toll roads use mileposts while still maintaining internal numbering logic that doesn't map cleanly onto the Interstate grid. The Turnpike's split at 15E/15W or 16E/16W works because drivers choose based on control cities -- GW Bridge vs. Lincoln Tunnel, Meadowlands vs. Newark/Jersey City -- not because of the alphanumeric suffixes.

And even if the Turnpike eventually goes all‑electronic, that still doesn't create a continuity problem that a new number would fix. Renumberings like Boston, Washington, or the I‑76/I‑676 swap solved real defects in the grid. The Turnpike doesn't have one. Both alignments are mainline, both carry I‑95, both use Turnpike exit numbers, and both are understood by drivers as "the Turnpike," not as separate highways.

Modernizing signs or tolling doesn't magically create a need for I‑695. It just updates the hardware. The underlying user experience -- choose your spur by destination, not by number-- remains the same.
So how would you do mile-based exit numbers on there, especially if you followed the MUTCD requirements to follow I-95?  And how do you deal with GPS systems that navigate by route numbers over control cities?

As for all-electronic, it's not that it would require new route/exit numbers, but create opportunity for redoing them, as it would presumably break the ticket system that exists now (and which is the traditional justification for toll roads being closed systems with their own navigation and numbering in the first place!).
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Beltway

Quote from: 1995hoo on February 09, 2026, 11:18:48 AM
Quote from: Beltway on February 08, 2026, 03:28:41 PMBefore GPS nav systems, nobody was following "I‑95 North" through the Turnpike like a cross‑country freeway. They were following: Turnpike North / Turnpike South, exit numbers, Control cities, best route signs. That's how the Authority designed the user experience, and it worked because the Turnpike is functionally a single facility with two parallel mainline alignments --not a mainline plus a loop.
You might have been surprised at how many people thought they were following I-95 the entire way when they used the Delaware Memorial Bridge/New Jersey Turnpike combination to go from DC to New York. I'm not saying they were right, of course—just that there were a surprising number of people who genuinely believed that entire route was I-95 (never mind the big green signs in Delaware plainly showing otherwise).
Back before 2018 when I-95 was connected to the PA Turnpike, and a continuous I-95 existed thenceforth.

The NJTP brand supercedes the Interstate system itself, so motorists bypassing SE PA could follow that, starting all the way back to 1951.

Quote from: vdeane on February 09, 2026, 01:02:33 PM
Quote from: Beltway on February 08, 2026, 10:45:33 PMModernizing signs or tolling doesn't magically create a need for I‑695. It just updates the hardware. The underlying user experience -- choose your spur by destination, not by number-- remains the same.
So how would you do mile-based exit numbers on there, especially if you followed the MUTCD requirements to follow I-95?  And how do you deal with GPS systems that navigate by route numbers over control cities?
That is the problem -- NJ I-95 would have milepost 0 where the PA Turnpike Extension crosses the Delaware River. Whereas NJTP milepost zero is where it starts a few miles north of the Delaware Memorial Bridge. North of Exit 6 the two numbering systems would not match.

I-695 presumably would have its own milepost system zero to 10, and the NJ-3 exit would be based on that system.
Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

jeffandnicole

Quote from: Beltway on February 08, 2026, 10:45:33 PMboth are understood by drivers as "the Turnpike," not as separate highways.

This has been a main theme of yours, and I think you're giving some drivers a lot more credit than they deserve.  Not everyone is familiar with how these roadways separate and operate.  Nor do they even know the name of the bridge they're crossing between NJ and NY.  Some are simply looking for signage for I-95.  Providing a dedicated routing for 95 will help them navigate thru the confusion.  And remember - motorists are travelling south also, so they're not looking for a bridge name at that point.

Going back to the 895 reference, I half-wonder if 895 was possibly going to be used for Interchanges 1 - 6. There's been many people here that have though the southern half should have a dedicated Interstate route number.  With the upcoming construction of Interchanges 1 - 4, nearly the entire highway between Interchanges 1 and 6 will be Interstate compliant, other than maybe a few substandard bridge clearances between Interchanges 4 & 6.

Quote from: 1995hoo on February 09, 2026, 11:18:48 AMYou might have been surprised at how many people thought they were following I-95 the entire way when they used the Delaware Memorial Bridge/New Jersey Turnpike combination to go from DC to New York. I'm not saying they were right, of course—just that there were a surprising number of people who genuinely believed that entire route was I-95 (never mind the big green signs in Delaware plainly showing otherwise).

To that point, back before 2018, a lot of people travelling south, once they got to Interchange 1, would ask how much further till Philadelphia.  At the time they thought the highway would go thru the city, so they ignored the exit signage at both Interchanges 3 and 4 for Philadelphia. They were shocked to find out they drove a half-hour past Philly, and would need to pick up 95 or 495 North in Delaware to get there.

Beltway

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 09, 2026, 03:16:27 PM
Quote from: Beltway on February 08, 2026, 10:45:33 PMboth are understood by drivers as "the Turnpike," not as separate highways.
This has been a main theme of yours, and I think you're giving some drivers a lot more credit than they deserve.  Not everyone is familiar with how these roadways separate and operate. 
Is there any other situation like this in the country? I can't think of any. But then there are few dual-divided highways in the first place.

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 09, 2026, 03:16:27 PMNor do they even know the name of the bridge they're crossing between NJ and NY.  Some are simply looking for signage for I-95.  Providing a dedicated routing for 95 will help them navigate thru the confusion.  And remember - motorists are travelling south also, so they're not looking for a bridge name at that point.
Going back to the 895 reference, I half-wonder if 895 was possibly going to be used for Interchanges 1 - 6. There's been many people here that have though the southern half should have a dedicated Interstate route number.  With the upcoming construction of Interchanges 1 - 4, nearly the entire highway between Interchanges 1 and 6 will be Interstate compliant, other than maybe a few substandard bridge clearances between Interchanges 4 & 6.
Hard to say -- the NJTP always was subject to partial Interstate route signing. The original I-95 Somerset Freeway plan would have I-95 overlap I-287 and then follow the Turnpike all the way north to I-80 and GWB.

Cancelation of Somerset gave us the scheme that we have now.

AFAIK there never was a plan to put one Interstate route number on the entire Turnpike.

But then the Kansas Turnpike has 3 different Interstate route numbers (35, 335, 70) so it is not unprecedented. Wonder how they handle mileposting and exit numbering?
Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

jeffandnicole

Quote from: Beltway on February 09, 2026, 05:16:24 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 09, 2026, 03:16:27 PM
Quote from: Beltway on February 08, 2026, 10:45:33 PMboth are understood by drivers as "the Turnpike," not as separate highways.
This has been a main theme of yours, and I think you're giving some drivers a lot more credit than they deserve.  Not everyone is familiar with how these roadways separate and operate. 
Is there any other situation like this in the country? I can't think of any. But then there are few dual-divided highways in the first place.

Regarding Interchanges 6 - 14, I'm partial to signing the inner and outer roadways with different route numbers. This is partially due to modern GPS technology. Google Maps will often put drivers on the inner roadway, regardless if it's faster or slower than the outer roadway.  By signing, say, the outer roadway as 95 and the inner roadway as 995, it would be clearer which roadway to use if one is faster than the other, or one is closed.

Beltway

Quote from: jeffandnicole on February 09, 2026, 07:40:01 PM
Quote from: Beltway on February 09, 2026, 05:16:24 PMIs there any other situation like this in the country? I can't think of any. But then there are few dual-divided highways in the first place.
Regarding Interchanges 6 - 14, I'm partial to signing the inner and outer roadways with different route numbers. This is partially due to modern GPS technology. Google Maps will often put drivers on the inner roadway, regardless if it's faster or slower than the outer roadway.  By signing, say, the outer roadway as 95 and the inner roadway as 995, it would be clearer which roadway to use if one is faster than the other, or one is closed.
I get why you're looking at the dual‑divideds as two separate highways -- the ramp layouts make it feel that way. The issue is that the Turnpike wasn't engineered or operated as two independent routes. Everything from mileposts to tolling to control‑city logic treats it as one facility with two roadways. That's why renumbering would create more confusion than it solves.

I see what you're getting at with the apps, but part of the issue is that routing software just isn't very good at interpreting the dual‑divideds. It treats the inner and outer as interchangeable lanes instead of a managed system. That's a limitation of the apps themselves, not a reason to redesign the Turnpike. The roadway works; the software oversimplifies it.
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ilpt4u

#5523
Quote from: Beltway on February 09, 2026, 05:16:24 PMBut then the Kansas Turnpike has 3 different Interstate route numbers (35, 335, 70) so it is not unprecedented. Wonder how they handle mileposting and exit numbering?
Not Kansas, but an Illinois example or two:

The Tri-State Tollway used to have mileage markers for the whole route regardless of Interstate number (94/294/80) and no exit numbers.

Eventually, mileage-based Exit numbers were added and mileage now tracks with the interstate designations of 94 (using the state-wide 94 mileage that IDOT also uses on their segments) and 294 (starts at the 80/94/294/394 southern end and increases to the northern end of 294 at 94). 80's mileage is not used on the Tri-State.

The Jane Addams (former Northwest) Tollway (39/90) used to have its own independent mileage that counted from the O'Hare 90/190/294 interchange as mile 0 to the Wisconsin state line and had no exit numbers.

When ISTHA added exit numbers they were mileage-based, and the mile markers were "corrected" by making the Wisconsin state line the "zero" point, increasing to the east and the Indiana state line and unified with IDOT's 90 mileage and exit numbers. 39's mileage/exit numbers are not used on the multiplexed segment

In summary, ISTHA basically quit doing its own thing and went to (mostly) interstate-standard mileage and exit numbers. The only really questionable area is using 294's mileage and exit numbers on the 80/294 segment at the southern end of the Tri-State, but there are other examples of 2dis multiplexed with 3dis and using the 3di's mileage & exit numbers

roadman65

Minneapolis on I-94 uses the Beltway exit numbers where it overlaps it.  That must confuse drivers to see the numbers go back and forth.

However that's for another discussion.  The Twin Cities Beltway is a three digit (I-694)  where I-94 overlaps using Exits 27-35 ( I-494/694s scheme) with the two digit being in the 210s not continous.
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