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Author Topic: US 50/301(Chesapeake Bay Bridge)  (Read 31219 times)

NE2

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Re: US 50/301(Chesapeake Bay Bridge)
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2011, 09:30:26 PM »

Mapquest always takes me across the bay bridge and goin up US 50.
You can drag the route: http://mapq.st/qOIVLH
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cpzilliacus

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Re: US 50/301(Chesapeake Bay Bridge)
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2013, 10:19:35 AM »

Delmarvanow.com: OPINION: Chesapeake Bay Bridge's future begins now - Time to figure out what needs to be done, when

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A 2006 task force called the issue of adding more spans to the Chesapeake Bay Bridge “complex, controversial and compelling.” That sums it up pretty well, and that’s why having these discussions now, with an increasing sense of urgency, is wise.
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Re: US 50/301(Chesapeake Bay Bridge)
« Reply #27 on: April 18, 2013, 05:12:35 PM »

WBOC-TV: Safety Improvements for the Bay Bridge

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Safety improvements are coming to the westbound span of the Chesapeake Bay Bridge.

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Beginning April 19, the Maryland Transportation Authority will install rumble strips, new lane markings and signs on the westbound Bay Bridge. The upgrades are to improve safety during "two-way" traffic operations.

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A painted buffer and rumble strips will be added between the westbound left and center lanes.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: US 50/301(Chesapeake Bay Bridge)
« Reply #28 on: February 16, 2016, 11:37:13 PM »

WBOC-TV: Maryland Lawmakers Start Planning for a Third Bay Bridge Span

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ANNAPOLIS, Md.- For years, Maryland lawmakers have been debating the idea of adding a third span to the Chesapeake Bay Bridge.  Supporters say the state needs to start saving money now for such a big project.  This comes after a report that outlined the cost of a new bridge.

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A new bay bridge span is a five billion dollar proposal according to that report.  Lawmakers from the Eastern Shore, led by democratic Senator Jim Mathias, believe that cost will not just be worth it, but is absolutely necessary as traffic continues to increase across the bay.

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It's a long term project, but this year, republican Senator Addie Eckardt believes there's a stronger push than ever for the span following that report outlining the costs and benefits.

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"I think enough people have been caught in traffic, and we've had enough incidents on the bay bridge this year that it's beginning to sink in.  So we do have to make that investment for the future, and we need to begin now," said Eckardt.
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froggie

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Re: US 50/301(Chesapeake Bay Bridge)
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2016, 07:30:04 AM »

Of course, Hogan decided to cut a big source of revenue that the state could have started saving for a 3rd span...
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AlexandriaVA

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Re: US 50/301(Chesapeake Bay Bridge)
« Reply #30 on: February 17, 2016, 11:38:47 AM »

Of course, Hogan decided to cut a big source of revenue that the state could have started saving for a 3rd span...

Gotta please the base voters!
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SteveG1988

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Re: US 50/301(Chesapeake Bay Bridge)
« Reply #31 on: February 17, 2016, 11:55:44 AM »

I would see this as a good excuse to build the world's longest suspension span. Just to break world records. May be used to appease the voters. "we need a new bridge, and we also are going to make it a record breaker"

If they build it close to the existing spans, then they would need similar tower placements and pier placements to prevent erosion from the uneven current, and also to smooth flow under the main spans. I predict if they go that route, they will use a concrete cantiliver for the secondary span, and a solid deck suspension bridge with similar tower structure to the existing westbound bridge. Reduce the truss count as much as possible.
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abefroman329

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Re: US 50/301(Chesapeake Bay Bridge)
« Reply #32 on: February 17, 2016, 02:39:50 PM »

IIRC, the Chesapeake Bay Bridge has an escort service for those with a phobia of heights and bridges.

That was eliminated 15 or 20 years ago.
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Rothman

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Re: US 50/301(Chesapeake Bay Bridge)
« Reply #33 on: February 17, 2016, 03:00:47 PM »

IIRC, the Chesapeake Bay Bridge has an escort service for those with a phobia of heights and bridges.

That was eliminated 15 or 20 years ago.

...in favor of private business ($30 a pop).
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: US 50/301(Chesapeake Bay Bridge)
« Reply #34 on: February 17, 2016, 03:15:29 PM »

If a third bridge is built, will the other two be reconfigured so all three bridges are up to Interstate Standards (even if they never become part of the Interstate System)?
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Re: US 50/301(Chesapeake Bay Bridge)
« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2016, 03:44:36 PM »

Quote from: The Ghostbuster
If a third bridge is built, will the other two be reconfigured so all three bridges are up to Interstate Standards (even if they never become part of the Interstate System)?

No.  It's physically impossible to reconfigure the existing spans to Interstate standard, ESPECIALLY the eastbound span.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: US 50/301(Chesapeake Bay Bridge)
« Reply #36 on: February 17, 2016, 04:04:59 PM »

Quote from: The Ghostbuster
If a third bridge is built, will the other two be reconfigured so all three bridges are up to Interstate Standards (even if they never become part of the Interstate System)?

No.  It's physically impossible to reconfigure the existing spans to Interstate standard, ESPECIALLY the eastbound span.

I disagree, in a sense.

The solution is relatively simple (but not cheap) - build a new span with a deck wide enough for three or four lanes with shoulder to be used mostly by eastbound traffic, then (normally) run both of the existing spans for westbound traffic, leaving one of the existing travel lanes open on each as a shoulder.

The early drawings of the proposed replacement Gov. Harry W. Nice Memorial Bridge (U.S. 301) has shoulders on both sides, in addition to a multi-use path. 

The parallel (now southbound) trestled roadway  of the CBBT (U.S. 13) has a shoulder (and even some emergency pull-off areas), on those long overwater structures.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: US 50/301(Chesapeake Bay Bridge)
« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2016, 04:08:31 PM »

Of course, Hogan decided to cut a big source of revenue that the state could have started saving for a 3rd span...

Agreed.  And not (re)tolling the entire tolled section of the JFK Highway would bring in a lot of added revenue that could be used to help to fund both both a new crossing of the Chesapeake and a replacement of the Harry Nice.
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froggie

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Re: US 50/301(Chesapeake Bay Bridge)
« Reply #38 on: February 17, 2016, 04:15:08 PM »

Quote from: The Ghostbuster
If a third bridge is built, will the other two be reconfigured so all three bridges are up to Interstate Standards (even if they never become part of the Interstate System)?

No.  It's physically impossible to reconfigure the existing spans to Interstate standard, ESPECIALLY the eastbound span.

I disagree, in a sense.

*snip rest*

Your suggestion still would not bring the spans to Interstate standard, which in these situations would require full shoulders on both sides.  Even for a full shoulder on one side and a partial on the other, the bridge deck width is not wide enough.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: US 50/301(Chesapeake Bay Bridge)
« Reply #39 on: February 17, 2016, 04:23:06 PM »

Your suggestion still would not bring the spans to Interstate standard, which in these situations would require full shoulders on both sides.  Even for a full shoulder on one side and a partial on the other, the bridge deck width is not wide enough.

Both sides, no.  But were there to be an Interstate highway crossing the Chesapeake Bay, I am pretty certain that FHWA would waive that requirement.  There are plenty of freeways across the U.S. that have little or no shoulder on the left, including long sections of the Capital Beltway and much of the East-West Mainline of the Pennsylvania Turnpike (and long sections of "free" freeways in Pennsylvania).
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Alps

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Re: US 50/301(Chesapeake Bay Bridge)
« Reply #40 on: February 17, 2016, 06:37:08 PM »

Your suggestion still would not bring the spans to Interstate standard, which in these situations would require full shoulders on both sides.  Even for a full shoulder on one side and a partial on the other, the bridge deck width is not wide enough.

Both sides, no.  But were there to be an Interstate highway crossing the Chesapeake Bay, I am pretty certain that FHWA would waive that requirement.  There are plenty of freeways across the U.S. that have little or no shoulder on the left, including long sections of the Capital Beltway and much of the East-West Mainline of the Pennsylvania Turnpike (and long sections of "free" freeways in Pennsylvania).
Read the AASHTO Green Book for Interstates. I believe they allow going down as narrow as 5' shoulder across long spans.

Pete from Boston

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Re: US 50/301(Chesapeake Bay Bridge)
« Reply #41 on: February 17, 2016, 09:13:02 PM »


I would see this as a good excuse to build the world's longest suspension span. Just to break world records. May be used to appease the voters. "we need a new bridge, and we also are going to make it a record breaker"

If they build it close to the existing spans, then they would need similar tower placements and pier placements to prevent erosion from the uneven current, and also to smooth flow under the main spans. I predict if they go that route, they will use a concrete cantiliver for the secondary span, and a solid deck suspension bridge with similar tower structure to the existing westbound bridge. Reduce the truss count as much as possible.

When was the last time a long-span suspension bridge was even built in the United States?
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froggie

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Re: US 50/301(Chesapeake Bay Bridge)
« Reply #42 on: February 17, 2016, 09:35:58 PM »

The replacement east span at the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge, finally completed 2 years-and-change ago.  Before that would be the eastbound Tacoma Narrows Bridge, finished in 2007.
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SteveG1988

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Re: US 50/301(Chesapeake Bay Bridge)
« Reply #43 on: February 17, 2016, 11:57:47 PM »


I would see this as a good excuse to build the world's longest suspension span. Just to break world records. May be used to appease the voters. "we need a new bridge, and we also are going to make it a record breaker"

If they build it close to the existing spans, then they would need similar tower placements and pier placements to prevent erosion from the uneven current, and also to smooth flow under the main spans. I predict if they go that route, they will use a concrete cantiliver for the secondary span, and a solid deck suspension bridge with similar tower structure to the existing westbound bridge. Reduce the truss count as much as possible.

When was the last time a long-span suspension bridge was even built in the United States?

The New Carquinez Bridge (2003) as well.

We can still do it.

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Pete from Boston

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US 50/301(Chesapeake Bay Bridge)
« Reply #44 on: February 18, 2016, 12:39:39 AM »

The replacement east span at the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge, finally completed 2 years-and-change ago.  Before that would be the eastbound Tacoma Narrows Bridge, finished in 2007.

I haven't paid enough attention to the new Bay Bridge to realize it was not cable-stayed, as seems to be much more common with single-tower bridges.

I guess my real point in asking is, is there a cheaper way of achieving the desired goal here than building a suspension bridge?  I've never crossed the current ones, so I'm not familiar with the specific demands of the site.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: US 50/301(Chesapeake Bay Bridge)
« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2016, 01:02:33 AM »

I would see this as a good excuse to build the world's longest suspension span. Just to break world records. May be used to appease the voters. "we need a new bridge, and we also are going to make it a record breaker"

I have a feeling that the trustee representing the bondholders, and maybe the bondholders themselves, would not like that approach.

If they build it close to the existing spans, then they would need similar tower placements and pier placements to prevent erosion from the uneven current, and also to smooth flow under the main spans. I predict if they go that route, they will use a concrete cantiliver for the secondary span, and a solid deck suspension bridge with similar tower structure to the existing westbound bridge. Reduce the truss count as much as possible.

Only place where it could possibly go if not next to the existing spans, would be well to the south, between Calvert County on the Western Shore and Dorchester County on the Eastern Shore. But there are plenty of properties that have to be avoided on both sides of the Bay, including the Calvert Cliffs Nuclear Power Plant and the Cove Point LNG terminal.

There would certainly need to be extensive and expensive upgrading of existing roads on both sides of the bay (probably an entirely new approach road on the eastern side) and the crossing itself might need to be a bridge-tunnel instead of a bridge.

The replacement Tappan Zee Bridge is perhaps not a good comparison, but the main spans will be cable-stayed, and otherwise not much in the way of trusses to be seen.
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SteveG1988

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Re: US 50/301(Chesapeake Bay Bridge)
« Reply #46 on: February 18, 2016, 09:34:48 AM »

I would see this as a good excuse to build the world's longest suspension span. Just to break world records. May be used to appease the voters. "we need a new bridge, and we also are going to make it a record breaker"

I have a feeling that the trustee representing the bondholders, and maybe the bondholders themselves, would not like that approach.

If they build it close to the existing spans, then they would need similar tower placements and pier placements to prevent erosion from the uneven current, and also to smooth flow under the main spans. I predict if they go that route, they will use a concrete cantiliver for the secondary span, and a solid deck suspension bridge with similar tower structure to the existing westbound bridge. Reduce the truss count as much as possible.

Only place where it could possibly go if not next to the existing spans, would be well to the south, between Calvert County on the Western Shore and Dorchester County on the Eastern Shore. But there are plenty of properties that have to be avoided on both sides of the Bay, including the Calvert Cliffs Nuclear Power Plant and the Cove Point LNG terminal.

There would certainly need to be extensive and expensive upgrading of existing roads on both sides of the bay (probably an entirely new approach road on the eastern side) and the crossing itself might need to be a bridge-tunnel instead of a bridge.

The replacement Tappan Zee Bridge is perhaps not a good comparison, but the main spans will be cable-stayed, and otherwise not much in the way of trusses to be seen.


You...just made a good point. They could make the new one cable stay if they wanted, it would cost less, but would look weird next to the current suspension spans.

I could see this setup. Main span, Suspension or Cable Stay. Approach spans, girders, secondary span, tied arch, similar in construction to the I-65 mobile bay bridge, or the Jefferson Barracks bridge in St Louis. It would be built with 3 lanes and shoulders on both sides, wide enough to where they can direct all traffic to it and reconstruct the existing bridges without much hassle. It would be built south of the existing pair to allow it to be tied into the toll booths  and not have too sharp of a curve on the western end where the two bridges touch down. The original bridge will close first, to allow for tying in the new bridge quickly, think new oakland bay bridge for how that would work out. Traffic would use the newer of the existing bridges in two way for a few days. After a few weeks all traffic would be shifted to the newest bridge. The current spans close for a full refurbishment like the JFK bridge at Louisville. After refurbishment, the 1950s bridge is reopened to eastbound traffic, but no trucks. The modern bridge opens to eastbound trucks and cars, and the westbound bridge gets restriped with three permament lanes.
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Pete from Boston

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Re: US 50/301(Chesapeake Bay Bridge)
« Reply #47 on: February 18, 2016, 09:53:09 AM »

If aesthetic imperfection (not mimicking the adjacent bridges) can save a billion dollars, aesthetic imperfection might have to be considered.
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Re: US 50/301(Chesapeake Bay Bridge)
« Reply #48 on: February 18, 2016, 10:59:24 AM »

I would see this as a good excuse to build the world's longest suspension span. Just to break world records. May be used to appease the voters. "we need a new bridge, and we also are going to make it a record breaker"

I have a feeling that the trustee representing the bondholders, and maybe the bondholders themselves, would not like that approach.

If they build it close to the existing spans, then they would need similar tower placements and pier placements to prevent erosion from the uneven current, and also to smooth flow under the main spans. I predict if they go that route, they will use a concrete cantiliver for the secondary span, and a solid deck suspension bridge with similar tower structure to the existing westbound bridge. Reduce the truss count as much as possible.

Only place where it could possibly go if not next to the existing spans, would be well to the south, between Calvert County on the Western Shore and Dorchester County on the Eastern Shore. But there are plenty of properties that have to be avoided on both sides of the Bay, including the Calvert Cliffs Nuclear Power Plant and the Cove Point LNG terminal.

There would certainly need to be extensive and expensive upgrading of existing roads on both sides of the bay (probably an entirely new approach road on the eastern side) and the crossing itself might need to be a bridge-tunnel instead of a bridge.

The replacement Tappan Zee Bridge is perhaps not a good comparison, but the main spans will be cable-stayed, and otherwise not much in the way of trusses to be seen.

My brother lives in Calvert County.  They would probably fight a new bridge there.  The county does not want a metro line extended to Calvert County, they keep lot sizes large, limit the size of big box stores etc to limit development.
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AlexandriaVA

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Re: US 50/301(Chesapeake Bay Bridge)
« Reply #49 on: February 18, 2016, 11:41:53 AM »

My brother lives in Calvert County.  They would probably fight a new bridge there.  The county does not want a metro line extended to Calvert County, they keep lot sizes large, limit the size of big box stores etc to limit development.

Nor does anyone else...
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