baffling interchanges

[NE2]

Clusterfucks may look more baffling from the air, but often a close set of intersections with turn restrictions is harder to navigate. For example (this one is signed reasonably).

[mgk920]

If I was more aware of what was going on back when this was being designed and laid out, I would have strongly urged WisDOT not to build this odd half-interchange on US 151 on the NE corner of Waupun, WI:

http://goo.gl/maps/4imOI

This connects the city street part of WI 26 to US 151 to the northeast.  WI 26 to Oshkosh is at the NE corner of the image and the WI 49 is the interchange to the south.

Me?  I would have removed WI 26 from the streets (WisDOT *STILL* hasn't done that....  ) and placed a simple straight across road/street bridge there - saving several millions of dollars of pvblic treasure with little, if any, loss in overall utility.

Mike

[Indyroads]

http://goo.gl/maps/gfVnN

The un-interchange. why hasn't this been fixed to a direct freeway to freeway connection.

[agentsteel53]

http://goo.gl/maps/gfVnN

The un-interchange. why hasn't this been fixed to a direct freeway to freeway connection.

now that one I'd really like to know the explanation for.

[getemngo]

http://goo.gl/maps/gfVnN

The un-interchange. why hasn't this been fixed to a direct freeway to freeway connection.

It's also fun when some, but not all, ramps require surface streets: I-96 & US 31. Kudos for including all possible movements, but blech!

Where did that "how to make a vomit emoticon" post go?

[NE2]

http://goo.gl/maps/gfVnN

The un-interchange. why hasn't this been fixed to a direct freeway to freeway connection.

now that one I'd really like to know the explanation for.

Same reason not everything needs to be a freeway: expense of bridges.

[Brandon]

http://goo.gl/maps/gfVnN

The un-interchange. why hasn't this been fixed to a direct freeway to freeway connection.

now that one I'd really like to know the explanation for.

Same reason not everything needs to be a freeway: expense of bridges.

However, at that point, both are freeways.  A cloverleaf with a single bridge would cost nothing more than is already there for bridges.  Just ramps.

[NE2]

I missed the rail line next to I-75.

[froggie]

However, at that point, both are freeways.  A cloverleaf with a single bridge would cost nothing more than is already there for bridges.  Just ramps.

As SPUI noted, you missed the rail line immediately adjacent to I-75 at and south of the US 30 overpass.

There's also the matter of retaining access to/from Beaverdam.

Both of these preclude the use of a "cloverleaf with a single bridge".

[thenetwork]

While this one may not be the most confusing, this one in Cleveland is interesting in that depending on the freeway and direction you are on, you may have 2, 3, or 4 freeways to choose from at a split (I-71, I-90, I-490 and SR-176).  Or if you wish to remain on I-90 either way, you "exit" to remain on I-90. Or, if you are on SR-176 North and with to exit onto I-71 South, you take a loop ramp to a C/D ramp for nearly 2 miles before you enter mainline I-71:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cleveland,+OH/@41.4674696,-81.6970838,5035m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x8830ef2ee3686b2d:0xed04cb55f7621842

Meanwhile, further down I-71, a similar situation by Hopkins Airport (I-71, I-480, SR-17 and SR-237), which is made further baffling from the intersection of two major railroad lines and the airport itself:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cleveland,+OH/@41.416415,-81.827761,2519m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x8830ef2ee3686b2d:0xed04cb55f7621842

[seicer]

Regarding I-75 and US 30, here is the original configuration: http://www.historicaerials.com/aerials.php?scale=4.96283823469136E-5&lat=40.8278548757232&lon=-83.9767690716709&year=T1963

Circa 1963, US 25 (pre I-75) intersected Dixie Highway at an at-grade intersection (an interchange was built here in 1965). There was a folded diamond interchange at US 30N at the present-day OH 696 interchange.

Circa 1973, US 25/I-75 had two interchanges at Beaver Dam. Exit 74, for Napoleon Road, was a half-diamond with room for a full-diamond. It was never fully built out. Exit 75 was built for US 30N.

Around that time, US 30N's freeway was built (in 1970) but did not interchange with I-75. I presume it had to do with the proximity of the N&W rail line. The freeway ended at present-day OH 696 just east of US 25/I-75 at a half-built diamond interchange.

In 1998-99, the freeway was completed eastward from Beaver Dam on a new alignment that was south of US 30N. The half built diamond at US 30N was converted into an intersection. The OH 696 interchange with I-75 (Exit 75) was rebuilt in 2006.

[PurdueBill]

The folded diamond on US 25 to US 30N reminds me of the US 24/35 interchange with old IN 25 near Logansport; tight and underpowered for much speed, basically RIRO accessto US 25. 

Getting on to US 30 EB from Beaverdam is a pain in the @$$ with the configuration as it now exists.  The long, long loop ramp adds a mile or more to the distance vs. taking the old Lincoln Highway down to either one of the county roads intersecting US 30 or to OH 235 to get on 30 EB.  I drive through there frequently on US 30, stopping at the Speedway, and I nearly always get back on US 30 EB by taking the old road down to 235.  The piecemeal fashion Sherman described (US 25 later upgraded to I-75, US 30 expressway built to the west way before to the east; changing configurations of the 30/696 interchange) resulted in the monster that makes up the I-75/US 30/OH 696 mess today.

There is very little vestige of the old partly-completed, later demolished interchange between the 1970 US 30 expressway and Lincoln Highway.  There is still some grading where new roadways didn't cross paths with existing stuff, and ROW is preserved (as can be seen comparing the current and 1973 aerial views) but almost all of the old stuff is gone.  The ROW for the temporary-style ramp that westbound US 30 traffic used (right exit and sweep left under the bridge onto the mainline) is still there but without any traces you can see driving past.

[1995hoo]

http://goo.gl/maps/gfVnN

The un-interchange. why hasn't this been fixed to a direct freeway to freeway connection.

now that one I'd really like to know the explanation for.

As others have noted, the rail line is an issue, but maybe something like that weird interchange on I-85 near Gastonia, NC, might have worked. It might have been overkill for traffic volumes, though:

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.2462996,-81.3008466,5252m/data=!3m1!1e3

[agentsteel53]

there has to be dozens of places where a railroad runs parallel to an interstate and a full interchange is successfully implemented.  why not here?  or, why in those myriad instances?

[PurdueBill]

The piecemeal fashion of building the current I-75 first as US 25 and the current US 30 first to the west, then to the east, with a change in plans for its path to the east from there, probably has a lot to do with it.  Original plans (nebulous ones) had US 30 continuing north across Lincoln Highway and then going east, but that changed.  In addition, the town of Beaverdam is very close by, and now there is buildup of truck stops around the interchange so the land would cost more to condemn.  I've seen someone propose basically US 30 and I-75 swapping carriageways for a little distance in an idea, but it probably isn't worth it overall. 

[froggie]

there has to be dozens of places where a railroad runs parallel to an interstate and a full interchange is successfully implemented.  why not here?  or, why in those myriad instances?

Yes, there are dozens nationwide...how many of those involve the junction of two controlled-access facilities?  Can't imagine there are very many...

[NE2]

there has to be dozens of places where a railroad runs parallel to an interstate and a full interchange is successfully implemented.  why not here?  or, why in those myriad instances?

Yes, there are dozens nationwide...how many of those involve the junction of two controlled-access facilities?  Can't imagine there are very many...

Appleton, WI oops, not complete
Bronx, NY no, not at all overkill for Beaverdam

[Brandon]

there has to be dozens of places where a railroad runs parallel to an interstate and a full interchange is successfully implemented.  why not here?  or, why in those myriad instances?

Yes, there are dozens nationwide...how many of those involve the junction of two controlled-access facilities?  Can't imagine there are very many...

1: Ryan and Stevenson Expressways, Chicago
2: Edens and Kennedy Expressways, Chicago
3: Eisenhower Expressway and Tri-State and East-West Tollways, Hillside
4: US-40, I-55, I-55, and I-70, East Saint Louis
5: US-40, I-44, I-55, and I-64, Saint Louis

And that's just a small sampling.  It's more common than one might think, especially in urban areas.

[NE2]

We're getting kind of far from:

A cloverleaf with a single bridge would cost nothing more than is already there for bridges.  Just ramps.

and into 'waste of fucking money for a rural interchange' territory.

[agentsteel53]

the only thing that would save me from thinking "the fuck?  why is there a traffic light on a freeway-to-freeway connection" is that I'd likely have no idea that US-30 is a freeway there.

[agentsteel53]

'waste of fucking money for a rural interchange'

the interchange that is currently there looks to be quite complicated, with there being, effectively, a freeway spur connecting to the Lincoln Highway.  it's larger in area than the town being bypassed!

[NE2]

Rural land doesn't cost much compared to bridges.

[froggie]

And that's just a small sampling.  It's more common than one might think, especially in urban areas.

However, with one exception (Kennedy/Edens), none of your examples show the railroad in similar proximity to the freeway as the I-75/US 30 situation.  With most of your examples, the railroad is far enough away to fit in ramps.

[talllguy]

I'm not holding my breath for Express Toll Lane movements in every possible direction.

[Kacie Jane]

there has to be dozens of places where a railroad runs parallel to an interstate and a full interchange is successfully implemented.  why not here?  or, why in those myriad instances?

Yes, there are dozens nationwide...how many of those involve the junction of two controlled-access facilities?  Can't imagine there are very many...

Appleton, WI oops, not complete
Bronx, NY no, not at all overkill for Beaverdam

In those cases though, I wonder if the interchange is bounded more by the water than the railroad...