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Author Topic: Hampton Roads, Va. area toll crossings and toll roads  (Read 64439 times)

Beltway

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Re: Hampton Roads, Va. area toll crossings and toll roads
« Reply #275 on: January 12, 2019, 12:43:46 AM »

For the High Rise Bridge, that is currently the decision for Phase #2, and for the HRBT, I mentioned above they are doing 2 HO/T + 2 GP during peak times. They could've done a 1 HO/T + 3 GP using an outside "shoulder" lane but they chose to make that shoulder lane an additional HO/T.
And you are right, these easily could change. But right now, that's currently the decision made.

HRBT will be a four-tube tunnel with 2 lanes in each tube.  I could see a difficulty in running one HOT and one GP in a tube as there would be no passing allowed.

I-64 Southside Widening and High Rise Bridge financial plan is not really clear about the configuration and the wording seems to imply one HOT lane each way added in each phase.  I don't think that is correct.
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Beltway

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Re: Hampton Roads, Va. area toll crossings and toll roads
« Reply #276 on: February 19, 2019, 05:04:55 PM »

Hampton Roads Bridge Tunnel Expansion Project Procurement Update to Commonwealth Transportation Board Feb 19, 2019
http://www.ctb.virginia.gov/resources/2019/feb/pres/1_hrbt.pdf

Excerpts:

Scope of HRBT Expansion Project
-- Settlers Landing in Hampton to I-564 Norfolk (10 Miles)
-- I-64 improvements include 6 lanes of highway + drivable shoulder and construction of 4 lane bridge/tunnel
-- New HRBT tunnels will serve Eastbound traffic
-- Existing HRBT tunnels will serve Westbound traffic
-- Design-Build Contract Value:  $3.3B
-- VDOT will pay for South Island Trestle Bridge Replacement Work (180 days option to identify funding sources)
-- Execute Comprehensive Agreement NLT (no later than):  Apr 15, 2019
-- Contractor LNTP (Limited Notice to Proceed):  Apr 2019
-- Project Complete:  Nov 2025

. . . . . . . .

I talked to the Chief Engineer and asked for some design details.

HRBT will be 8 lanes on 4 separate 2-lane roadways/tubes.
New tunnels will be bored with TBM.
HRBT existing marine bridges will be replaced.
Willoughby Bay bridges will be widened to 8 lanes.
The "driveable shoulder" will be a 12-foot left lane of full-depth pavement.
Two general purpose lanes each way between Mallory Street and I-564.
Two HOT lanes each way between Mallory Street and I-564, seamlessly connecting with 2-lane reversible roadway.
No major rehab of existing tunnels.  No addressing of increase of vertical clearance in westbound tube. (*)
No major upgrade of I-564 interchange. (*)
Mallory Street to I-664 widening will be a future project not yet studied.

(*) At least not in this particular project.
 
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 05:12:06 PM by Beltway »
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sprjus4

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Re: Hampton Roads, Va. area toll crossings and toll roads
« Reply #277 on: February 19, 2019, 05:30:35 PM »

Hampton Roads Bridge Tunnel Expansion Project Procurement Update to Commonwealth Transportation Board Feb 19, 2019
http://www.ctb.virginia.gov/resources/2019/feb/pres/1_hrbt.pdf

Excerpts:

Scope of HRBT Expansion Project
-- Settlers Landing in Hampton to I-564 Norfolk (10 Miles)
-- I-64 improvements include 6 lanes of highway + drivable shoulder and construction of 4 lane bridge/tunnel
-- New HRBT tunnels will serve Eastbound traffic
-- Existing HRBT tunnels will serve Westbound traffic
-- Design-Build Contract Value:  $3.3B
-- VDOT will pay for South Island Trestle Bridge Replacement Work (180 days option to identify funding sources)
-- Execute Comprehensive Agreement NLT (no later than):  Apr 15, 2019
-- Contractor LNTP (Limited Notice to Proceed):  Apr 2019
-- Project Complete:  Nov 2025

. . . . . . . .

I talked to the Chief Engineer and asked for some design details.

HRBT will be 8 lanes on 4 separate 2-lane roadways/tubes.
New tunnels will be bored with TBM.
HRBT existing marine bridges will be replaced.
Willoughby Bay bridges will be widened to 8 lanes.
The "driveable shoulder" will be a 12-foot left lane of full-depth pavement.
Two general purpose lanes each way between Mallory Street and I-564.
Two HOT lanes each way between Mallory Street and I-564, seamlessly connecting with 2-lane reversible roadway.
No major rehab of existing tunnels.  No addressing of increase of vertical clearance in westbound tube. (*)
No major upgrade of I-564 interchange. (*)
Mallory Street to I-664 widening will be a future project not yet studied.

(*) At least not in this particular project.
 
Do they plan on releasing technical drawings / schematics of the project?

Interesting about the westbound tube... so the HO/T lanes without trucks will have a higher clearance than the GP lanes with trucks... I don't see why the HO/T shoulder couldn't be a full time HO/T lane, or hell, if they're playing the shoulder game, why not give the GP lanes a shoulder lane as well? It would involve increasing the cross-section on the outside from a 12 foot shoulder to 14 foot or 16 foot, but worth it IMHO. The only issue is the tunnel - it'd have to be 3-lanes wide, instead of two, but I guess they didn't consider this as an option, and again, fled to more HO/T lanes. It would surely help with traffic congestion by adding another GP lane as well in the long run, but I guess it's too late. This could bite in 20 years.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2019, 05:33:42 PM by sprjus4 »
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wriddle082

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Re: Hampton Roads, Va. area toll crossings and toll roads
« Reply #278 on: January 07, 2020, 09:04:13 PM »

So the new High Rise Bridge project, when completed, will only have tolls for the HO/T lanes?  Meaning it will still offer free lanes, unlike the Downtown and Midtown Tunnels and Jordan and Veterans Memorial Bridges?

I’m working in Norfolk again this week, staying on the water in Virginia Beach, and crossed the High Rise last night around 7:30 despite Waze telling me to take the Downtown Tunnel for a $1.80 toll.
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Beltway

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Re: Hampton Roads, Va. area toll crossings and toll roads
« Reply #279 on: January 07, 2020, 09:15:29 PM »

So the new High Rise Bridge project, when completed, will only have tolls for the HO/T lanes?  Meaning it will still offer free lanes, unlike the Downtown and Midtown Tunnels and Jordan and Veterans Memorial Bridges?
If they open as HOT and not HOV, they will be tolled.

Two general purpose lanes each way will remain toll-free.

I have been seeing that project on a near-weekly basis, and it is steadily coming together.
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sprjus4

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Re: Hampton Roads, Va. area toll crossings and toll roads
« Reply #280 on: January 07, 2020, 09:31:13 PM »

So the new High Rise Bridge project, when completed, will only have tolls for the HO/T lanes?  Meaning it will still offer free lanes, unlike the Downtown and Midtown Tunnels and Jordan and Veterans Memorial Bridges?
If they open as HOT and not HOV, they will be tolled.

Two general purpose lanes each way will remain toll-free.

I have been seeing that project on a near-weekly basis, and it is steadily coming together.
As it’s planned now, the lanes will only be HO/T during peak hours. Like the rest of the area HOV & HO/T lanes, they will be open to all traffic free of charge during off peak hours, weekends, and holidays, though will still be barrier separated.
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wriddle082

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Re: Hampton Roads, Va. area toll crossings and toll roads
« Reply #281 on: January 07, 2020, 09:37:22 PM »

So the new High Rise Bridge project, when completed, will only have tolls for the HO/T lanes?  Meaning it will still offer free lanes, unlike the Downtown and Midtown Tunnels and Jordan and Veterans Memorial Bridges?
If they open as HOT and not HOV, they will be tolled.

Two general purpose lanes each way will remain toll-free.

I have been seeing that project on a near-weekly basis, and it is steadily coming together.

Indeed, I passed through last month also and I think it’s made progress since then.  I would suspect that beams will start to be laid across the finished piers in the very near future.

Will probably be making more semi-regular trips to Norfolk for work in the future, since one particular customer site has been moved from our NE installation manager to our SE installation manager, due to customer reps preferring mine and my co-worker’s work and the closest person in the NE installation group perpetually tied up with work in MD.
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74/171FAN

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Re: Hampton Roads, Va. area toll crossings and toll roads
« Reply #282 on: January 08, 2020, 07:11:35 AM »

So the new High Rise Bridge project, when completed, will only have tolls for the HO/T lanes?  Meaning it will still offer free lanes, unlike the Downtown and Midtown Tunnels and Jordan and Veterans Memorial Bridges?
If they open as HOT and not HOV, they will be tolled.

Two general purpose lanes each way will remain toll-free.

I have been seeing that project on a near-weekly basis, and it is steadily coming together.
As it’s planned now, the lanes will only be HO/T during peak hours. Like the rest of the area HOV & HO/T lanes, they will be open to all traffic free of charge during off peak hours, weekends, and holidays, though will still be barrier separated.

I had not been keeping close eyes on this, but it seems to me that they must not want to charge those traveling to the Outer Banks.  (even though VA 168 gets them already)
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sprjus4

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Re: Hampton Roads, Va. area toll crossings and toll roads
« Reply #283 on: January 08, 2020, 07:48:04 AM »

So the new High Rise Bridge project, when completed, will only have tolls for the HO/T lanes?  Meaning it will still offer free lanes, unlike the Downtown and Midtown Tunnels and Jordan and Veterans Memorial Bridges?
If they open as HOT and not HOV, they will be tolled.

Two general purpose lanes each way will remain toll-free.

I have been seeing that project on a near-weekly basis, and it is steadily coming together.
As it’s planned now, the lanes will only be HO/T during peak hours. Like the rest of the area HOV & HO/T lanes, they will be open to all traffic free of charge during off peak hours, weekends, and holidays, though will still be barrier separated.

I had not been keeping close eyes on this, but it seems to me that they must not want to charge those traveling to the Outer Banks.  (even though VA 168 gets them already)
One of the potential options was looking at “maximizing revenue on peak weekends”, so there’s is a chance peak weekend HO/T tolling may be implemented later on, but as of now it is not a thing.

That $8 peak weekend toll on the Expressway definitely grabs the tourists, at least the ones who aren’t smart enough to take parallel 6-mile Battlefield Blvd, though it’s only going to the city of Chesapeake and helping to repay debt on the Expressway and Dominion Blvd. The two toll roads merged into one operation and revenue collected on both facilities goes to repay debt on the two. There’s no profit made from the toll road, at least that’s publicly announced.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2020, 07:51:42 AM by sprjus4 »
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sprjus4

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Re: Hampton Roads, Va. area toll crossings and toll roads
« Reply #284 on: January 08, 2020, 05:04:48 PM »

An update was provided to the TTAC today on the proposed Segment 2 of the HO/T lane network stretching between I-264 and I-464.

The current plan calls for converting the existing HOV lane each way into HO/T by installing toll gantries, assosaiated signage, and a 4 foot barrier.

The project is slated to cost $32 million.

Construction could begin by July 2020 and be open to traffic by December 2021, around the time the I-64 High Rise Bridge HO/T lanes will be opened between I-464 and Bowers Hill. This would complete a substantial portion of the proposed network by the end of 2021, providing continuous lanes for 23 miles.

https://www.hrtpo.org/uploads/docs/P13-Regional_Express_Lanes_Network_Update.pdf



Here are some issues I see with this project. In my opinion, it's being done on the cheap, and not being fully built out. I believe ultimately there needs to be 2 lanes each way utilizing there "part time shoulder" concept (IMO, I say nix the shoulder and just make it a full time HO/T lane on all the areas they are proposing this, many urban areas have this configuration with no issues). Secondly, direct connectors between I-64 East (towards Bowers Hill) to VA-168 / US-17 South, and between VA-168 North and I-64 East are needed. These are two major movements, and the interchange is already substandard as it is. If the current HO/T lanes are any indication with high usage, there will be heavy traffic loads dumping out of the HO/T lanes 1-2 miles prior to the Oak Grove Interchange trying to weave 3-4 lanes over just to make the exit, and the same will be true people getting on I-64 East then trying to get over 2-3 lanes to enter the HO/T lanes. Then there's the issue that the interchange already congests heading from I-64 East to VA-168 / US-17 South for 1-2 miles, so you dump them into congestion, usually with the left lanes flowing and the right lanes parked because of the narrow, substandard weaving cloverleaf bound to VA-168 / US-17 South. They are underestimating the traffic load that will use these lanes during peak hours, and ultimately I feel it's just going to make congestion even worse than it is at the Oak Grove Interchange, and the HO/T lanes will be packed with the heavy load using the lanes down to 1 lane for 7 miles.

They are reconstructing the entire freeway on the Hampton side to accommodate 2 HO/T lanes each way, and are proposing direct connectors at I-564. The same needs to hold true for Segment 2 as well. Delay the project for a couple of years, put it through a NEPA study as the other phases involving major construction are getting, and then come back with a high-capacity project that will actually work.
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