What ever happened to people knowing the roads?

[agentsteel53]

GPSs are most useful IMO for last-mile navigation in unfamiliar urban/suburban areas where street names and address numbers are poorly marked, if at all.

indeed.  I can probably get to any metro area in the US by memory; any town or city neighborhood by looking at a map ... but I'm definitely gonna need the last few turns to navigate through Happie Labyrinthe Estates.

[wxfree]

I have similar lamentations about people knowing directions, and other things like knowing how to change a tire, change the oil, fix a leaky faucet, etc.  It's just old age setting in, and you don't see it until it happens to you.

I don't know how to use a washboard, bake bread, or grow corn.  I don't know how to kill and butcher an animal or make my own clothes.  We have people and machines to do those things these days, so they're no longer needed skills.  I don't feel stupid for not knowing how to grow tomatoes.  We can get tomatoes at any time of year, cheaply and with no effort; it sounds to me like we've made progress as a result of being smart.

I'm reminded of Albert Einstein, who (according to what I've read) didn't like to waste space in his mind remembering information that's useless or can be written down.  Freed from menial tasks, such as remembering telephone numbers or what the Fourteenth Amendment says, the mind can become less mechanized and more creative, finding better solutions to problems and more ways of understanding things.

Science, technology, economies, governments, lifestyles - things always get better, not always in a straight line and with plenty of bumps, but always moving upward.  We have more wealth, more convenience, more comfort, more safety, more respect for people's rights than ever before.  And at each step of the way, the old people lamented over what was lost.  What we lost is valuable, because it's what enabled us to make progress, but giving up progress and the betterment of lives for the sake of holding on to old things is foolish.  How much modern comfort and convenience would you give up for the sake of knowing how to farm?

[roadman65]

It is not a debate on whether the old generation is better than the new one, just wondering why people now seem to know less about the roads then they did years ago even when most people never drove before or could not drive.

Also, lane drops without signs were common on US 1 in Woodbridge and Elizabeth where the old 1932 bridges would be four lanes so the six lane arterial would lose one lane each way at the crossings.  SB US 1 & 9 at the Elizabeth Avenue exit never had any signs saying that the right lane exited exclusively when I lived there back in the 70,s and 80's.  Yet I never saw any last minuet lane changes where someone would surprisingly make an unsafe maneuver when he discovered that he was going someplace else.  All drivers moved over ahead of time as they payed close attention to the road ahead or new every configuration ahead of time of their daily drives.

[Avalanchez71]

Well I can contest to the part about suburbs being farther now time wise then they once were.  I moved to South Orlando in 1990 when it took five to ten minuets to go from what is now Southchase to the Florida Mall.  Now it can take 20-25 minuets because of the sprawl between Orlando and Kissimmee.  US 17, 92, & 441 was semi rural with few lights and only four lanes.  Now its very close to urban with many signals, and six lanes still not enough to handle the increase in traffic. Mind you that John Young Parkway that is nearby is also six lanes where you would figure that the drive from Orlando to Kissimmee should be more of a picnic than it was with only one four lane highway in 1990 between those two points.  However, sprawl brings more motorists and now both Orlando and Kissimmee are one continuous metro area where as before you had rural areas in between and were once both two different distinct urban areas.

Bottom line is the fact that what people once did conveniently is not so much anymore.  What was once close is not at all close.  Gas prices going up too added to that making frequent trips less frequent or none at all now to what you once did daily.  I used to go to the beach a lot, but now I am lucky if I get to it once a year.

I think I remeber that Orange Blossom Trail was two lanes back in the 80's.  I seem to remember that it was rural between Orlando and Kissimmee.  I wonder if that is correct.

[hbelkins]

20 years ago, when there was no Street View and I was traveling in an area for the first time, how would I know that there was a lane drop without signage? I wouldn't.

Now that there's street view, you check all the lanes ahead of time?

No, although I have checked out a few complicated exits in the past before I drove through them, because I'm one of those who likes to be in the correct lane well ahead of time.

I just thought the assertion that people would automatically know where a lane drop occurs without signage warning of such was ridiculous. Signs are meant to guide drivers who are unfamiliar with the area. You could remove every sign from a number of roads in my general area, and I could still get to where I needed to be. Remove all the signs from a road in California, where I've never been before, and I wouldn't know where to turn or whether a curve is unsafe at the speed I'm traveling and I'd need to slow down in advance of it.

[Scott5114]

I don't even really remember World War II being a big topic when I was in school, though everyone knew a lot about it. I always found in history classes the teachers spent way too much time on the colonial era and then had to rush to get through other things (an exception being in fourth grade Virginia history because the War Between the States is such an important part of Virginia history).

Your experience mirrors mine. Most history classes I took had the world starting in 1492 and ending sometime during the Gilded Age. Very seldom was the 20th century, or anything having to do with the world prior to America's discovery by the West, covered at all. And this was the same at all grade levels; year after year we covered the same things. World War II was mostly covered by English class due to the works of Anne Frank and Elie Wiesel.

I did have one teacher in high school (actually the head football coach, but of all the dual coach/teachers out there, he was the best at teaching) design his own unit around the Kennedy assassination, primarily because I think he personally found it an interesting subject. He presented the evidence for and against the official account of events and called on us to decide whether or not we thought Oswald acted alone. In prior years he had arranged for a field trip down to Dallas to visit the book depository, Dealey Plaza and the grassy knoll, which would have been a fantastic experience, but for whatever reason that wasn't done my year.

[Pete from Boston]

I don't even really remember World War II being a big topic when I was in school, though everyone knew a lot about it. I always found in history classes the teachers spent way too much time on the colonial era and then had to rush to get through other things (an exception being in fourth grade Virginia history because the War Between the States is such an important part of Virginia history).

Your experience mirrors mine. Most history classes I took had the world starting in 1492 and ending sometime during the Gilded Age. Very seldom was the 20th century, or anything having to do with the world prior to America's discovery by the West, covered at all. And this was the same at all grade levels; year after year we covered the same things. World War II was mostly covered by English class due to the works of Anne Frank and Elie Wiesel.

I did have one teacher in high school (actually the head football coach, but of all the dual coach/teachers out there, he was the best at teaching) design his own unit around the Kennedy assassination, primarily because I think he personally found it an interesting subject. He presented the evidence for and against the official account of events and called on us to decide whether or not we thought Oswald acted alone. In prior years he had arranged for a field trip down to Dallas to visit the book depository, Dealey Plaza and the grassy knoll, which would have been a fantastic experience, but for whatever reason that wasn't done my year.

They teach history backwards.  Kids would get it–the ones paying attention, anyway–if they started with now, and worked back to explain how now happened.

We had no end of WWII vets around.  It seemed unthinkable that would ever not be the case, there were so many.  Now it seems hard to make sense at all of having known WWI survivors at all.  They fought for, with, and against Hapsburgs and Ottoman Turks, for chrissakes, that were losing their hold on 750 years of rule, and some new things called Germany and Italy that were about 40 years old.

[DandyDan]

I have to agree that technology has made things so that people don't know their roads, and that suburban sprawl has set it up so that if one were to know all the roads, they'd have to know a lot more than they would have 20 years ago (or however many years ago you want to say).  But nobody here, that I noticed, has mentioned that people move from one metro area to another often in the USA.  People just don't live where they grew up at as much as they used to.  If you move to an area when you are in your 20's, it's a lot harder to know all the roads than if you lived there all your life.   I could probably tell you better where some streets are in Cottage Grove, MN (where I lived until I was 15) than some streets near me here in Papillion, NE which are probably less than a mile away.  It's sad and somewhat pathetic, but it's not like I drive down every street here all the time.

[PHLBOS]

No EXIT ONLY or RIGHT LANE MUST EXIT signs were needed as most knew of a lane dropping to ramps without being told

I have to disagree with you regarding the above-point.  Such signage very likely existed back then in one form or another but there was no uniform set standard for such (i.e. not fully/completely addressed in older versions of MUTCD).  So states had their own individual approaches for such signage.

As for more people knowing how to properly navigate through areas & situations that had insufficient EXIT ONLY/LEFT (RIGHT) LANE MUST EXIT signage is concerned; unless you have the data source(s) to back up that claim, your earlier-stated notions/assertions are just opinions.

[BamaZeus]

I've had countless examples where I confused a cashier by giving change in anticipation of the change I would get in return.

Example: Total comes to $4.87. I give the cashier $5.02, in anticipation of getting a nickel and a dime back instead of a dime and three pennies. The cashier looks puzzled and says "it was $4.87" and then I explain to them the change they're supposed to give back to me. I've said that there will come a day when fast food places will go out of business, because they attract the stupidest people, and that class of people is too stupid to work at a fast food place.

One time I went to a c-store and bought a soda after filling my tank.  I think it came out to $.97 and I handed the girl a dollar and two cents expecting a nickel back.  I wish I had a camera phone back then to record the sheer look of horror on her face.  She stood there dumbfounded, finally pushed the pennies back to me, and gave me 3 cents change.  I was as nice as could be and didn't say anything to her, but I was cringing inside.

[kurumi]

... nickel back ... sheer look of horror on her face ... cringing inside.

No surprise; everyone hates Nickelback

[roadman65]

No EXIT ONLY or RIGHT LANE MUST EXIT signs were needed as most knew of a lane dropping to ramps without being told

I have to disagree with you regarding the above-point.  Such signage very likely existed back then in one form or another but there was no uniform set standard for such (i.e. not fully/completely addressed in older versions of MUTCD).  So states had their own individual approaches for such signage.

As for more people knowing how to properly navigate through areas & situations that had insufficient EXIT ONLY/LEFT (RIGHT) LANE MUST EXIT signage is concerned; unless you have the data source(s) to back up that claim, your earlier-stated notions/assertions are just opinions.

Well in Elizabeth and Woodbridge on US 1 no signs did exist at one time, as it most likely was when no traffic was on the road (or the amount of today anyway) when all that originally happened.  Remember there were no dotted lines required for lane drops until the 80's yet now they are around everywhere.   Something starts someplace at some time, so the EXIT ONLY or MUST EXIT had to as well.

The point made here about people never moved as much before in the past where people lived their whole lives in the same metro areas or regions, so people knew the roads and lane configurations like the back of their own hands.  Now moving around makes things so foreign to everyone and also the constant change of the roads due to expansion as well creates confusion.  DandyDan may have the best theory in his reply.

[1995hoo]

I recall Delaware's signs used to say "MUST EXIT" rather than "EXIT ONLY" (I believe some still do, though I haven't been through Delaware in a while). I always liked that wording.

[roadman65]

You can have all the dotted lines, the overhead warnings, the lane ends, and still drivers will be surprised that the lane they are in ends or defaults to the exit ramp, including truckers!  I cannot tell you how many times I used to see truckers make a last minuet lane change on I-287 in Edison, NJ where the NB right lane at NJ 27 SB exit defaulted onto the ramp.  This was back in the 80's where it was a common thing believed to be known that all truckers knew all the roads and interstate system.  And YES they had overhead EXIT ONLY signs even when NJDOT had the diagramical guides on I-287 between I-78 and the NJT!

[jeffandnicole]

I could probably tell you better where some streets are in Cottage Grove, MN (where I lived until I was 15) than some streets near me here in Papillion, NE which are probably less than a mile away.  It's sad and somewhat pathetic, but it's not like I drive down every street here all the time.

I can tell you the streets in my neighborhood where I grew up whether they existed or not (some were paper streets that were never built), but today, where I have lived for 13 years since being married, I still forget the name of the cross street at the end of my road, 3 houses away.

[Brian556]

When you are younger, you learn the streets well because you ride around on a bicycle a lot, and you don't have all the worries of an adult. Riding a bicycle or walking allows you to pay attention to details that you would not notice while driving, because you are moving slower, and you don't have to focus your attention on driving.

[hbelkins]

... nickel back ... sheer look of horror on her face ... cringing inside.

No surprise; everyone hates Nickelback

Not this person in southwestern Virginia:

[1995hoo]

... nickel back ... sheer look of horror on her face ... cringing inside.

No surprise; everyone hates Nickelback

I would not know Nickelback if I heard them.

[hbelkins]

... nickel back ... sheer look of horror on her face ... cringing inside.

No surprise; everyone hates Nickelback

I would not know Nickelback if I heard them.

Neither would I.

[The Nature Boy]

... nickel back ... sheer look of horror on her face ... cringing inside.

No surprise; everyone hates Nickelback

I would not know Nickelback if I heard them.

Neither would I.

So lucky

[PHLBOS]

I've had countless examples where I confused a cashier by giving change in anticipation of the change I would get in return.

Example: Total comes to $4.87. I give the cashier $5.02, in anticipation of getting a nickel and a dime back instead of a dime and three pennies. The cashier looks puzzled and says "it was $4.87" and then I explain to them the change they're supposed to give back to me. I've said that there will come a day when fast food places will go out of business, because they attract the stupidest people, and that class of people is too stupid to work at a fast food place.

One time I went to a c-store and bought a soda after filling my tank.  I think it came out to $.97 and I handed the girl a dollar and two cents expecting a nickel back.  I wish I had a camera phone back then to record the sheer look of horror on her face.  She stood there dumbfounded, finally pushed the pennies back to me, and gave me 3 cents change.  I was as nice as could be and didn't say anything to her, but I was cringing inside.

Been there - done that.

... nickel back ... sheer look of horror on her face ... cringing inside.

No surprise; everyone hates Nickelback

I would not know Nickelback if I heard them.

Neither would I.

So lucky

That's why there's YouTube.  So one can quickly check who or what someone's talking about... if one so dares.

[jakeroot]

Not reading anything up to this point (I saw "Nickelback" and started running)...but here's my thought:

There are two minor societal changes that I believe contribute to the lack of interest in roads in modern times:

1) Cycling is the new way of getting around -- if you drive a car, you either hate mother earth or you're just a fat loser. (NOT MY OPINION)

2) At least in my area, roads don't really have names anymore. Most streets are numbered (for postal reasons, of course). This makes memorizing roads less fun/less of a game.

[jeffandnicole]

I've had countless examples where I confused a cashier by giving change in anticipation of the change I would get in return.

Example: Total comes to $4.87. I give the cashier $5.02, in anticipation of getting a nickel and a dime back instead of a dime and three pennies. The cashier looks puzzled and says "it was $4.87" and then I explain to them the change they're supposed to give back to me. I've said that there will come a day when fast food places will go out of business, because they attract the stupidest people, and that class of people is too stupid to work at a fast food place.

One time I went to a c-store and bought a soda after filling my tank.  I think it came out to $.97 and I handed the girl a dollar and two cents expecting a nickel back.  I wish I had a camera phone back then to record the sheer look of horror on her face.  She stood there dumbfounded, finally pushed the pennies back to me, and gave me 3 cents change.  I was as nice as could be and didn't say anything to her, but I was cringing inside.

What I hate is the person in front of me in line is taking 5 minutes to hunt down the two pennies in his pocket/her purse in order to get that nickel in return, instead of just taking the 3 pennies.

Nearly everyone goes to the register to check out, and refuses to even touch their wallets until the order is rung up.  Seriously...they knew they were going to have to pay.  And, oh, look, they pull out a $20 bill.  For a $1 item.  I don't care about that in general - what I care about is that they could've had that $20 in hand already, instead of waiting for the item to be rung up before even touching their wallet.  So don't dare go "Oh, wait, I think I may have the change also"...

BTW, congestion at toll plazas?  Yeah...this is one of the reasons why. 

[agentsteel53]

1) Cycling is the new way of getting around -- if you drive a car, you either hate mother earth or you're just a fat loser.

you must not have graduated college yet.

[jakeroot]

1) Cycling is the new way of getting around -- if you drive a car, you either hate mother earth or you're just a fat loser.

you must not have graduated college yet.

Starting my junior year in September.