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Author Topic: Interstate 269  (Read 227185 times)

Tomahawkin

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #800 on: November 25, 2018, 09:58:34 PM »

Honestly. I think it will help rush hour traffic along 240 and traffic in general in the Memphis area. As a Atlanta resident another outer bypass even if it's 4-6 lanes would help a lot, especially with the truck traffic
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edwaleni

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #801 on: November 25, 2018, 11:29:29 PM »

INDOT does the same thing with Evansville, they like to pretend it's in Kentucky.

Technically, when you stick your toes in the Ohio River, you are.
Well, if you take US41 south you're in Kentucky before you cross the river.  It has also been said that we have a bit of a "twang", although I have no idea what you'll are talkin about.

The Kentucky state line comes right up to the Indiana shore line, in Illinois as well.  Hence you could walk down to the riverfront, stick your toes in the water and be in Kentucky.

Back in the 1970's Kentucky DNR rangers used to come out in their boats and cite Indiana and Illinois fishermen for not having a proper license for Kentucky. Before that they never enforced their border and everyone used to stay on "their side" of the river to fish. After they started citing Ohio river fishermen a little civil war broke out between the DNR's for the 3 states.

This is also why Kentucky is the lead agency on so many Ohio River bridges. They choose to assert their borders, so they gotta pay to support them.

That is why I made the remark.
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MantyMadTown

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #802 on: November 26, 2018, 12:51:20 AM »

INDOT does the same thing with Evansville, they like to pretend it's in Kentucky.

Technically, when you stick your toes in the Ohio River, you are.
Well, if you take US41 south you're in Kentucky before you cross the river.  It has also been said that we have a bit of a "twang", although I have no idea what you'll are talkin about.

The Kentucky state line comes right up to the Indiana shore line, in Illinois as well.  Hence you could walk down to the riverfront, stick your toes in the water and be in Kentucky.

Back in the 1970's Kentucky DNR rangers used to come out in their boats and cite Indiana and Illinois fishermen for not having a proper license for Kentucky. Before that they never enforced their border and everyone used to stay on "their side" of the river to fish. After they started citing Ohio river fishermen a little civil war broke out between the DNR's for the 3 states.

This is also why Kentucky is the lead agency on so many Ohio River bridges. They choose to assert their borders, so they gotta pay to support them.

That is why I made the remark.

Why do they get to claim all of the Ohio River? It would really do good for the bordering states if they just bisected the river as Kentucky can't really build anything on the other side of the Ohio.
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Brooks

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #803 on: November 26, 2018, 12:59:26 AM »

Honestly. I think it will help rush hour traffic along 240 and traffic in general in the Memphis area. As a Atlanta resident another outer bypass even if it's 4-6 lanes would help a lot, especially with the truck traffic
Agree fully. I-240 between I-55 and SR 385 could use the traffic relief (however large or small) especially with current and future improvements like Memfix 4 and the Airways Blvd interchange. Hopefully TDOT will soon consider widening 240 between 55 and Airways as well because it is sorely needed. However, given TDOT’s usual snubbing of Memphis with important projects I doubt anything major will happen soon.
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silverback1065

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #804 on: November 26, 2018, 09:47:18 AM »

INDOT does the same thing with Evansville, they like to pretend it's in Kentucky.

Technically, when you stick your toes in the Ohio River, you are.
Well, if you take US41 south you're in Kentucky before you cross the river.  It has also been said that we have a bit of a "twang", although I have no idea what you'll are talkin about.

The Kentucky state line comes right up to the Indiana shore line, in Illinois as well.  Hence you could walk down to the riverfront, stick your toes in the water and be in Kentucky.

Back in the 1970's Kentucky DNR rangers used to come out in their boats and cite Indiana and Illinois fishermen for not having a proper license for Kentucky. Before that they never enforced their border and everyone used to stay on "their side" of the river to fish. After they started citing Ohio river fishermen a little civil war broke out between the DNR's for the 3 states.

This is also why Kentucky is the lead agency on so many Ohio River bridges. They choose to assert their borders, so they gotta pay to support them.

That is why I made the remark.

Why do they get to claim all of the Ohio River? It would really do good for the bordering states if they just bisected the river as Kentucky can't really build anything on the other side of the Ohio.

it's stupid, but it goes all the way back to the old Northwest Territory.  Never changed.  Unrelated, but Indiana really fucked up their border with lake michigan. 
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froggie

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #805 on: November 26, 2018, 10:03:59 AM »

Quote from: Tomahawkin
Honestly. I think it will help rush hour traffic along 240 and traffic in general in the Memphis area. As a Atlanta resident another outer bypass even if it's 4-6 lanes would help a lot, especially with the truck traffic

I actually doubt this.  There isn't much through traffic on that leg of 240 to begin with, let alone through traffic that would find 269 viable.  269 is likely getting trucks right away because of the huge Norfolk Southern intermodal facility recently built between Collierville and Rossville.

Most of the through truck traffic is due north-south (55) or due east-west (40).  269 is not really going to help either of those flows.  Only way for that to work would be to get 269 across the river in some fashion.

Nevermind that, due to the nature of urban areas and urban traffic, whatever does get diverted from 240 will get filled back in fairly quickly with local traffic.
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edwaleni

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #806 on: November 26, 2018, 01:18:25 PM »

INDOT does the same thing with Evansville, they like to pretend it's in Kentucky.

Technically, when you stick your toes in the Ohio River, you are.
Well, if you take US41 south you're in Kentucky before you cross the river.  It has also been said that we have a bit of a "twang", although I have no idea what you'll are talkin about.

The Kentucky state line comes right up to the Indiana shore line, in Illinois as well.  Hence you could walk down to the riverfront, stick your toes in the water and be in Kentucky.

Back in the 1970's Kentucky DNR rangers used to come out in their boats and cite Indiana and Illinois fishermen for not having a proper license for Kentucky. Before that they never enforced their border and everyone used to stay on "their side" of the river to fish. After they started citing Ohio river fishermen a little civil war broke out between the DNR's for the 3 states.

This is also why Kentucky is the lead agency on so many Ohio River bridges. They choose to assert their borders, so they gotta pay to support them.

That is why I made the remark.

Why do they get to claim all of the Ohio River? It would really do good for the bordering states if they just bisected the river as Kentucky can't really build anything on the other side of the Ohio.

it's stupid, but it goes all the way back to the old Northwest Territory.  Never changed.  Unrelated, but Indiana really fucked up their border with lake michigan.

Indiana has its war stories too. Fisherman off Calumet Park in Chicago used to run afoul of Indiana DNR because Chicago filled the lake right up to the state line.

Meanwhile back to I-269.
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GreenLanternCorps

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #807 on: November 26, 2018, 03:45:41 PM »

INDOT does the same thing with Evansville, they like to pretend it's in Kentucky.

Technically, when you stick your toes in the Ohio River, you are.
Well, if you take US41 south you're in Kentucky before you cross the river.  It has also been said that we have a bit of a "twang", although I have no idea what you'll are talkin about.

The Kentucky state line comes right up to the Indiana shore line, in Illinois as well.  Hence you could walk down to the riverfront, stick your toes in the water and be in Kentucky.

Back in the 1970's Kentucky DNR rangers used to come out in their boats and cite Indiana and Illinois fishermen for not having a proper license for Kentucky. Before that they never enforced their border and everyone used to stay on "their side" of the river to fish. After they started citing Ohio river fishermen a little civil war broke out between the DNR's for the 3 states.

This is also why Kentucky is the lead agency on so many Ohio River bridges. They choose to assert their borders, so they gotta pay to support them.

That is why I made the remark.

Why do they get to claim all of the Ohio River? It would really do good for the bordering states if they just bisected the river as Kentucky can't really build anything on the other side of the Ohio.

it's stupid, but it goes all the way back to the old Northwest Territory.  Never changed.  Unrelated, but Indiana really fucked up their border with lake michigan.

Exactly.  Virginia claimed the Ohio River to the Low water mark on the opposite bank.  Kentucky and West Virginia each inherited that claim when they became states.  The Confederation Congress accepted that initial claim When the Northwest Territory was created. 
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wdcrft63

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #808 on: November 26, 2018, 06:42:57 PM »

Virginia had experience with this sort of thing: when the initial royal grant was made that established Maryland as a colony separate from Virginia, Maryland got all of the Potomac River up to the high tide line on the Virginia side. The modern consequence is that Maryland gets to pay almost entirely for upgrading the US 301 bridge over the river.
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Tomahawkin

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #809 on: November 27, 2018, 03:31:32 AM »

Drove 269 again to day at Rush hour. Loved it. A lot more small truck contractors use this route than most think. I had to take 302 from 55 to Getwell rd. Then due south to 269. A lot of suburban home sprawl on Getwell. I 55 south from 302 on south for another 10 miles was a 2 lane parking lot. That section of 55 should have been made 8 lanes 10+ years ago. I feel for anyone who lives in the Tunica area who has to commute to The M (Memphis)
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Bobby5280

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I-269 Completed - Did everyone miss this?
« Reply #810 on: January 11, 2019, 11:27:43 PM »

I though the segment of I-269 between I-55 and I-22 South of Memphis was still under construction. It turns out that segment opened late last October. Did anyone else post a discussion thread about that a couple months ago? I feel like I missed something.

I wound up finding out about the completion of I-269 by talking to my brother about a road trip from Colorado down to South Georgia. He's taking a Southern route to avoid a whole lot of snow on I-70. His GPS probably would have had him take I-40 clear to Nashville, but I-22 would be faster. I figured he would have to endure all the stupid traffic signals on Lamar Ave from I-240 down until the road turns into a freeway. But now he can get on I-55 and take it South to I-269 to avoid all that mess.
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MikeTheActuary

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Re: I-269 Completed - Did everyone miss this?
« Reply #811 on: January 12, 2019, 01:02:53 AM »

If you scroll down a little further in the Mid South forum threads, you'll find an I-269 thread.  The opening of the last segment is announced in reply #754 there.  :)
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Bobby5280

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Re: I-269 Completed - Did everyone miss this?
« Reply #812 on: January 12, 2019, 11:14:52 AM »

It was way down there. Freaking over-looked it.
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Tomahawkin

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Re: I-269 Completed - Did everyone miss this?
« Reply #813 on: January 12, 2019, 12:29:07 PM »

Drove it from 55 to interstate 22. Loved it. I was amazed that there was more traffic on it than I thought there would be. Only problem is that getting to 269 via IH 55 Is a ##### because 55 south of 302 in Southhaven needs to be widened from 4 to 10 lanes (combined) its a nasty bottleneck for about 5 miles
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sparker

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #814 on: January 13, 2019, 02:04:37 PM »

Drove it from 55 to interstate 22. Loved it. I was amazed that there was more traffic on it than I thought there would be. Only problem is that getting to 269 via IH 55 Is a ##### because 55 south of 302 in Southhaven needs to be widened from 4 to 10 lanes (combined) its a nasty bottleneck for about 5 miles

At this point any further freeway development/expansion in MS is likely to be long-term prospects; according to most accounts, they "blew their wad", budget-wise, with I-269 and the upgrades to US 78 in order to get I-22.  Unless an infusion of funds is forthcoming -- one shouldn't anticipate any significant projects to pop up in the near term outside of maintenance and necessary rebuilds on the existing state system (in-state politically motivated projects notwithstanding!).   
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Bobby5280

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #815 on: January 13, 2019, 02:11:39 PM »

I-55 needs some serious work in Memphis and South of Memphis. The I-55 Mississippi River bridge is a narrow, 4-lane, outdated contraption of a bottleneck. The cloverleaf interchange with Crump Blvd is another bottleneck. I-55 is 3 lanes in each direction South of there, but it really should be four or five lanes in each direction. Parts of the I-55/I-69 multiplex South of I-240 go as wide as 5 lanes in each direction, but a bunch still ranges from 2, 3 and 4 lanes.

This situation is another reason why a new Mississippi River bridge is needed near Tunica at the end of MS-304. I-22 could be extended along that into Arkansas and up to I-40. Best case scenario would be a big I-269 loop going all the way around the greater Memphis area. Unfortunately there's not piles of billions of dollars just laying around to build all these bridges and there's little in the way of federal help and oversight for this situation. The 3 states involved (TN, MS & AR) are left to go it alone. The two existing crossings in Memphis for I-40 and I-55 both need to be replaced with higher capacity structures.
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sparker

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #816 on: January 13, 2019, 02:26:13 PM »

I-55 needs some serious work in Memphis and South of Memphis. The I-55 Mississippi River bridge is a narrow, 4-lane, outdated contraption of a bottleneck. The cloverleaf interchange with Crump Blvd is another bottleneck. I-55 is 3 lanes in each direction South of there, but it really should be four or five lanes in each direction. Parts of the I-55/I-69 multiplex South of I-240 go as wide as 5 lanes in each direction, but a bunch still ranges from 2, 3 and 4 lanes.

This situation is another reason why a new Mississippi River bridge is needed near Tunica at the end of MS-304. I-22 could be extended along that into Arkansas and up to I-40. Best case scenario would be a big I-269 loop going all the way around the greater Memphis area. Unfortunately there's not piles of billions of dollars just laying around to build all these bridges and there's little in the way of federal help and oversight for this situation. The 3 states involved (TN, MS & AR) are left to go it alone. The two existing crossings in Memphis for I-40 and I-55 both need to be replaced with higher capacity structures.

Unfortunately, in this situation we're dealing with one state (MS, of course) that simply can't afford to be involved in expansive projects such as this, and two states (AR & TN) with varying degrees of fiscal capability but with priorities elsewhere in their jurisdictions (AR with I-49, possibly I-57, and the never-ending Little Rock "modifications", and TN perpetually shifting funds to the central or eastern portions of the state).  I've said before that Memphis and environs have the bad luck to be squeezed into the SW corner of TN, where projects that primarily accrue benefits to the neighboring state (such as the short section of I-55 in TN or the Lamar fiasco) are given short shrift by the state that must actually build the facilities.  Add the disdain for urbanized Memphis within TN/Nashville political circles and one has a recipe for inaction or stalemate.  In some areas politics gets things built; in other it prevents just that.
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Bobby5280

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #817 on: January 13, 2019, 08:21:41 PM »

And that makes it all the more necessary for the federal government to be involved with the regional transportation issues surrounding Memphis. The feds are AWOL on this of course. Memphis is at an important transportation crossroads, arguably a far more important crossroads than anything in Nashville. The intersection of I-55 and I-40 is in Memphis. The Mississippi River borders Memphis. The primary FedEx hub is based in Memphis.

It's pretty easy to justify FOUR state of the art Mississippi River bridge crossings in the Memphis area (two for a total I-269 outer loop and two for new I-40 and I-55 crossings). The way it looks the federal government will literally wait until the I-40 and I-55 crossings are ready to collapse before they do anything about those bridges.
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txstateends

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #818 on: January 13, 2019, 08:57:44 PM »

And that makes it all the more necessary for the federal government to be involved with the regional transportation issues surrounding Memphis. The feds are AWOL on this of course. Memphis is at an important transportation crossroads, arguably a far more important crossroads than anything in Nashville. The intersection of I-55 and I-40 is in Memphis. The Mississippi River borders Memphis. The primary FedEx hub is based in Memphis.

It's pretty easy to justify FOUR state of the art Mississippi River bridge crossings in the Memphis area (two for a total I-269 outer loop and two for new I-40 and I-55 crossings). The way it looks the federal government will literally wait until the I-40 and I-55 crossings are ready to collapse before they do anything about those bridges.

Or the next New Madrid rumble happens.  Things will hit the fan there then.
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US71

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #819 on: January 13, 2019, 08:59:59 PM »

And that makes it all the more necessary for the federal government to be involved with the regional transportation issues surrounding Memphis. The feds are AWOL on this of course. Memphis is at an important transportation crossroads, arguably a far more important crossroads than anything in Nashville. The intersection of I-55 and I-40 is in Memphis. The Mississippi River borders Memphis. The primary FedEx hub is based in Memphis.

It's pretty easy to justify FOUR state of the art Mississippi River bridge crossings in the Memphis area (two for a total I-269 outer loop and two for new I-40 and I-55 crossings). The way it looks the federal government will literally wait until the I-40 and I-55 crossings are ready to collapse before they do anything about those bridges.

I thought there was discussion a few years ago about replacing the bridge on 55, but it never happened.  I-40 had some work done a few years back to make it more quake resistant.
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froggie

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #820 on: January 13, 2019, 11:35:20 PM »

Quote from: Bobby5280
I-55 needs some serious work in Memphis and South of Memphis. The I-55 Mississippi River bridge is a narrow, 4-lane, outdated contraption of a bottleneck. The cloverleaf interchange with Crump Blvd is another bottleneck. I-55 is 3 lanes in each direction South of there, but it really should be four or five lanes in each direction. Parts of the I-55/I-69 multiplex South of I-240 go as wide as 5 lanes in each direction, but a bunch still ranges from 2, 3 and 4 lanes.

South of 240 also has close to double the traffic that 240-to-the-river does.

Have you ever driven that segment of 55 north of 240, Bobby?  Even at rush hour, it flows pretty well, and certainly doesn't need "four or five lanes in each direction."  The vast bulk of the problem is the Crump interchange.  Fix that, fix the lane drops so you have a consistent 6 lanes, and twin the river bridge if you have to.  That's all that's really needed on 55.
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MikieTimT

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #821 on: January 14, 2019, 12:03:43 AM »

Quote from: Bobby5280
I-55 needs some serious work in Memphis and South of Memphis. The I-55 Mississippi River bridge is a narrow, 4-lane, outdated contraption of a bottleneck. The cloverleaf interchange with Crump Blvd is another bottleneck. I-55 is 3 lanes in each direction South of there, but it really should be four or five lanes in each direction. Parts of the I-55/I-69 multiplex South of I-240 go as wide as 5 lanes in each direction, but a bunch still ranges from 2, 3 and 4 lanes.

South of 240 also has close to double the traffic that 240-to-the-river does.

Have you ever driven that segment of 55 north of 240, Bobby?  Even at rush hour, it flows pretty well, and certainly doesn't need "four or five lanes in each direction."  The vast bulk of the problem is the Crump interchange.  Fix that, fix the lane drops so you have a consistent 6 lanes, and twin the river bridge if you have to.  That's all that's really needed on 55.

That interchange is a huge bottleneck since it is a single exit and entrance lane both directions, with northbound being a 270 degree slow loop at that.  That interchange as well as Lamar/Holmes Rd. were always the portions of my trip to northeast Mississippi that I dreaded the most after US-72 was 4 laned across Mississippi back when I visited family before they all grew up and started their own families.  In order to fix that interchange, there would have to be 2 lanes worth of flyover to fix the northbound bottleneck, but southbound would just need another "exit" lane added at the cost of a couple of houses and potentially a sound wall added.
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sparker

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #822 on: January 14, 2019, 02:30:20 AM »

^^^^^^^^
The 55/240 "bump" is that in name only; the majority of NB traffic on I-55 doesn't make the turn with the signed route -- it continues north on I-240 toward central Memphis, hence that facility receiving the "straightline" through the interchange.  From what I am led to believe, the Crump situation is a result of lack of consensus regarding the closing of the 55 river bridge during the reconstruction process; because of the stalemate regarding this, the upgrade funds were redirected elsewhere.  That controversy will require resolution before any further activity is done on that particular I-55 segment. 

When I-69 is finally signed through central Memphis, it will be the default "mainline" of the interchange as the only route of the 3 converging there to remain on its original trajectory.  FWIW, I always though that I-55 should stay on the present I-240 north to I-40, then coincide with the latter across the river, with the current I-55 bridge and the Crump situation relegated to I-240.  But given the local desire to limit traffic on the I-40 crossing as well as the slim/none possibility of that bridge's expansion, that concept will probably never happen. 
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rte66man

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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #823 on: January 14, 2019, 06:07:23 AM »

That interchange is a huge bottleneck since it is a single exit and entrance lane both directions, with northbound being a 270 degree slow loop at that....

Not technically true.  TDOT went in a few years ago and twinned the NB to WB ramp.  I'm not sure why they bothered as it's still a bottleneck
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Re: Interstate 269
« Reply #824 on: January 14, 2019, 08:17:31 AM »

^ Still an improvement over the previous single-lane loop plus weaving-situations.
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