New York State Thruway

[vdeane]

As of last week, the work zone was already in place EB. WB traffic will be shifting to the EB side but that had not yet occurred. Fortunately, four lanes will be maintained, but it is a very long work zone, so it's still going to be a slog.

And the last time they did this, they had "stay in lane" restrictions the whole way.  Spending 16 miles stuck at 55 mph, potentially even slower depending on what vehicles in front are doing, will not be fun.

Not to mention the likelihood of being tailgated through the toll gantry.

[cu2010]

Oh joy, looks like the next three years of driving on I-90 west of Syracuse are going to be real fun.  It feels like they're working here more often than not.  It was just reconstructed 15 years ago, got a significant amount of work done just a decade after that, and now they're at it again.

The project includes full-depth asphalt reconstruction along certain sections of I-90 eastbound and westbound, where crews remove the existing concrete pavement to its full depth and replace it with warm-mix asphalt. On other segments of I-90 eastbound, full-depth repairs will be performed on the existing concrete pavement. These repairs to the existing concrete pavement include removing and replacing the most deteriorated portions of roadway down to its subbase, which will improve the existing roadway's structural integrity and enhance long-term durability.

Additional repairs in the concrete paving section include crack filling and diamond grinding to smooth out the concrete surface and provide a smooth riding surface.

Other work includes guiderail improvements, new reflective line striping, installation of milled-in audible roadway delineators, also known as rumble strips, on the shoulders.

Slate Hill Constructors, Inc., of Warners, NY, is the project contractor following a competitive bidding process. The project is expected to be completed in Fall 2028.

Motorists may encounter lane closures on the Thruway in this area during construction.

https://www.governor.ny.gov/news/governor-hochul-announces-start-98-million-infrastructure-improvement-project-thruway-onondaga

*notes removal of concrete for asphalt*

The pavement is in terrible shape eastbound before I-690, so I'm not surprised.

It's in pretty rough shape westbound too.

[webny99]

Because the other thing that happened around that time is the Thruway going AET.  Without the toll barrier at exit 24 to meter the traffic somewhat, it seems like that just makes congestion on the Northway worse.  Combine that with the exit 4 project allowing more traffic to hit the exit 5 merge, and it seems like I have my answer.  I had hoped it would be because of the Belmont Stakes temporarily being at the Saratoga Racetrack, since that would mean that next year would be back to normal, but I guess not.  This is here to stay.  So I guess exit 45 isn't the only one that altered congestion patterns on the local highways when the Thruway went AET.

I-190 NB approaching the South Grand Island Bridge is another example of this. There never used to be congestion because the toll barrier metered the traffic, but now, afternoon backups are a regular occurrence on weekdays. And on summer Thursdays/Fridays, traffic can even back up to I-190 Exit 15 and onto the I-290 mainline.

I used to think that restriping the I-290 WB to I-190 NB ramp as an option lane instead of an auxiliary ramp lane would help traffic flow, and while it would help on I-290 itself, it would probably only make traffic worse on I-190 approaching the bridge.

[vdeane]

I emailed the Thruway about the new toll gantries for exits 25 and 25A.  They're currently in the testing phase and should go live by the end of summer.  When they do, this section will indeed be absorbed into the virtual ticket system, making it one system from exits 24 to 34A, and decreasing toll processing times to be the same as the rest of the Thruway.

[webny99]

decreasing toll processing times to be the same as the rest of the Thruway.

Which, it's worth stating, is not a very high bar. But it's good to see progress nonetheless.

[vdeane]

decreasing toll processing times to be the same as the rest of the Thruway.

Which, it's worth stating, is not a very high bar. But it's good to see progress nonetheless.

A couple days is much better than a week or two.  Which should cut down the number of "groups" of tolls for Rochester-Albany from four to two:

1. The fixed-price gantries from Syracuse west (next day)
2. The VTS segments from Syracuse west (two days later)
3. The fixed-price gantries around Albany (2 weeks later)
4. The exit 25A-24A VTS (2-3 weeks later)

to

1. All fixed-price gantries (next day)
2. All VTS segments (two days later)

[vdeane]

Wow, the split lane work zone setup around exit 44 really doesn't work.  Despite no lane merges entering the work zone, it still created stop and go traffic half way to exit 43.  The right lane was completely stopped after the split, resulting in people cutting over to the left at the last second.  This could probably be alleviated somewhat if the Thruway bothered to tell people that traffic to exit 45 counts as thru traffic for the work zone, as I imagine many people, like me, were sticking right because they weren't sure if they would be able to get to their exit from the left lane, only to cut over with thoughts of using exit 46 if need be when it became clear that the lane wasn't moving.

[Rothman]

Wow, the split lane work zone setup around exit 44 really doesn't work.  Despite no lane merges entering the work zone, it still created stop and go traffic half way to exit 43.  The right lane was completely stopped after the split, resulting in people cutting over to the left at the last second.  This could probably be alleviated somewhat if the Thruway bothered to tell people that traffic to exit 45 counts as thru traffic for the work zone, as I imagine many people, like me, were sticking right because they weren't sure if they would be able to get to their exit from the left lane, only to cut over with thoughts of using exit 46 if need be when it became clear that the lane wasn't moving.

Flew through there today, no problems.

However, yes, it makes you think the right lane is for exiting traffic only.  Bad NYSTA!  Bad!

[vdeane]

Wow, the split lane work zone setup around exit 44 really doesn't work.  Despite no lane merges entering the work zone, it still created stop and go traffic half way to exit 43.  The right lane was completely stopped after the split, resulting in people cutting over to the left at the last second.  This could probably be alleviated somewhat if the Thruway bothered to tell people that traffic to exit 45 counts as thru traffic for the work zone, as I imagine many people, like me, were sticking right because they weren't sure if they would be able to get to their exit from the left lane, only to cut over with thoughts of using exit 46 if need be when it became clear that the lane wasn't moving.

Flew through there today, no problems.

However, yes, it makes you think the right lane is for exiting traffic only.  Bad NYSTA!  Bad!

Honestly, it would have flowed better if they directed traffic in such a way where only traffic exiting at exit 44 was using the right lane.  I think they were trying to do that with "exit 44 right lane" and "thru traffic left lane" VMS messages, but since IMO exit 45 isn't really thru traffic there either, that left an ambiguous situation.  It was definitely not flowing well when I went through at 3:00; I picked up 15 minutes of delay from that and couldn't get gas on my way to Rochester like I wanted and still catch the 4:00 news (my parents and I had a 5:30 dinner reservation, so it was catch the 4:00 news or don't watch local news yesterday).

[webny99]

Wow, the split lane work zone setup around exit 44 really doesn't work.  Despite no lane merges entering the work zone, it still created stop and go traffic half way to exit 43.  The right lane was completely stopped after the split, resulting in people cutting over to the left at the last second.  This could probably be alleviated somewhat if the Thruway bothered to tell people that traffic to exit 45 counts as thru traffic for the work zone, as I imagine many people, like me, were sticking right because they weren't sure if they would be able to get to their exit from the left lane, only to cut over with thoughts of using exit 46 if need be when it became clear that the lane wasn't moving.

Yeah, I can't wait for this project to be done. That stretch has gone from one of the best stretches of the Thruway under normal conditions to one of the worst with the construction the past few years. Exit 45 WB has also been a mess this season, with unclear lane markings and last second merging creating secondary backups. I am really hoping they convert Exit 45 to an option lane with APL signage as part of this project, but I haven't heard anything to indicate that will be happening.

Flew through there today, no problems.

Must have been EB or early/late in the day because WB was backed up for most of the afternoon... which has been typical on Fridays and Sundays with this project.

[Rothman]

Wow, the split lane work zone setup around exit 44 really doesn't work.  Despite no lane merges entering the work zone, it still created stop and go traffic half way to exit 43.  The right lane was completely stopped after the split, resulting in people cutting over to the left at the last second.  This could probably be alleviated somewhat if the Thruway bothered to tell people that traffic to exit 45 counts as thru traffic for the work zone, as I imagine many people, like me, were sticking right because they weren't sure if they would be able to get to their exit from the left lane, only to cut over with thoughts of using exit 46 if need be when it became clear that the lane wasn't moving.

Yeah, I can't wait for this project to be done. That stretch has gone from one of the best stretches of the Thruway under normal conditions to one of the worst with the construction the past few years. Exit 45 WB has also been a mess this season, with unclear lane markings and last second merging creating secondary backups. I am really hoping they convert Exit 45 to an option lane with APL signage as part of this project, but I haven't heard anything to indicate that will be happening.

Flew through there today, no problems.

Must have been EB or early/late in the day because WB was backed up for most of the afternoon... which has been typical on Fridays and Sundays with this project.

WB, morning.

[vdeane]

Today was not the day to be driving that work zone either.  A crash near 11:00 AM caused a backup getting on at exit 44 and the Thruway was stop and go all the way to the toll gantries just past exit 43.  There was also a massive backup to get off at exit 43.  Traffic would have been best advised to get off at exit 42, but I'm not sure where the best spot to get back on would have been, given that Victor got hammered in Saturday's storms.

Might be a good idea to just avoid the westbound Thruway near exit 44 until the traffic pattern changes in August.

[webny99]

Today was not the day to be driving that work zone either.  A crash near 11:00 AM caused a backup getting on at exit 44 and the Thruway was stop and go all the way to the toll gantries just past exit 43.  There was also a massive backup to get off at exit 43.  Traffic would have been best advised to get off at exit 42, but I'm not sure where the best spot to get back on would have been, given that Victor got hammered in Saturday's storms.

Yeah, it's crazy how hard Victor got hit while just a few miles north was almost completely spared.

It sounds like one of those times when NY 370 to NY 104 was probably the best option from Syracuse to Rochester, but for anyone already on the Thruway, NY 31 to I-490 or US 20 to I-390 might have been the best options despite their slowness.
 

Might be a good idea to just avoid the westbound Thruway near exit 44 until the traffic pattern changes in August.

Or at least after ~10AM Friday-Sunday. 44-45 does have a bit of morning commuter traffic, but it's mostly entering at 44. It's not until traffic already on the Thruway gets heavy that things start to back up.

[kalvado]

Another rainy day, another bus flipped on Thruway
https://www.timesunion.com/news/article/troopers-responding-overturned-bus-thruway-22353808.php
A chinatown bus it seems

[webny99]

Wow, the split lane work zone setup around exit 44 really doesn't work.

As bad as WB has been with this setup, the new EB configuration might be even worse, especially for anyone entering at Exit 45. The setup is basically the same as WB: The center lane is closed, so the right lane has to merge with entering traffic, while the left lane functions as a "bypass" of the merge. The only problem is that more than half of all EB traffic on that stretch is coming from Exit 45 - so while the mainline Thruway backups aren't as bad, the Exit 45 on-ramp completely clogs and backs up to Exit 29 and beyond. Meanwhile, anyone already on the Thruway who happens to not realize the situation and chooses the right lane costs themselves 5+ minutes sitting in traffic while actively contributing to the bottleneck. To make matters worse, trucks are normally banned from the left lane on this stretch, so trucks are understandably hesitant to choose the left lane. 

This could probably be alleviated somewhat if the Thruway bothered to tell people that traffic to exit 45 counts as thru traffic for the work zone, as I imagine many people, like me, were sticking right because they weren't sure if they would be able to get to their exit from the left lane, only to cut over with thoughts of using exit 46 if need be when it became clear that the lane wasn't moving.

Actually, I think they did intend for Exit 45 traffic to use the right lane, or at least the ambiguity was intentional. After the first center lane closure ends, there's only about a mile near the Seneca Service area where lane changes are allowed, and then Exit 45 traffic actually does have to be in the right lane for another center lane closure through Exit 45 - so all Exit 45 traffic using the left lane and then trying to merge right would create a secondary backup.

It's kind of a no-win situation - encouraging all Exit 45 traffic to pick either lane in advance would only make things worse.

[ElishaGOtis]

Wow, the split lane work zone setup around exit 44 really doesn't work.

As bad as WB has been with this setup, the new EB configuration might be even worse, especially for anyone entering at Exit 45. The setup is basically the same as WB: The center lane is closed, so the right lane has to merge with entering traffic, while the left lane functions as a "bypass" of the merge. The only problem is that more than half of all EB traffic on that stretch is coming from Exit 45 - so while the mainline Thruway backups aren't as bad, the Exit 45 on-ramp completely clogs and backs up to Exit 29 and beyond. Meanwhile, anyone already on the Thruway who happens to not realize the situation and chooses the right lane costs themselves 5+ minutes sitting in traffic while actively contributing to the bottleneck. To make matters worse, trucks are normally banned from the left lane on this stretch, so trucks are understandably hesitant to choose the left lane. 

This could probably be alleviated somewhat if the Thruway bothered to tell people that traffic to exit 45 counts as thru traffic for the work zone, as I imagine many people, like me, were sticking right because they weren't sure if they would be able to get to their exit from the left lane, only to cut over with thoughts of using exit 46 if need be when it became clear that the lane wasn't moving.

Actually, I think they did intend for Exit 45 traffic to use the right lane, or at least the ambiguity was intentional. After the first center lane closure ends, there's only about a mile near the Seneca Service area where lane changes are allowed, and then Exit 45 traffic actually does have to be in the right lane for another center lane closure through Exit 45 - so all Exit 45 traffic using the left lane and then trying to merge right would create a secondary backup.

It's kind of a no-win situation - encouraging all Exit 45 traffic to pick either lane in advance would only make things worse.

Debatable, but I guess since it is a merge on one side, it could cause some issues...

[vdeane]

As bad as WB has been with this setup, the new EB configuration might be even worse, especially for anyone entering at Exit 45. The setup is basically the same as WB: The center lane is closed, so the right lane has to merge with entering traffic, while the left lane functions as a "bypass" of the merge. The only problem is that more than half of all EB traffic on that stretch is coming from Exit 45 - so while the mainline Thruway backups aren't as bad, the Exit 45 on-ramp completely clogs and backs up to Exit 29 and beyond. Meanwhile, anyone already on the Thruway who happens to not realize the situation and chooses the right lane costs themselves 5+ minutes sitting in traffic while actively contributing to the bottleneck. To make matters worse, trucks are normally banned from the left lane on this stretch, so trucks are understandably hesitant to choose the left lane. 

I actually haven't had an issue with that one on the two times I've gotten on there since they set this up.  It helps that exit 45 still has an actual merge area.  Is this more of a thing at peak times like Friday afternoon?

And, of course, since they're essentially double cattle chutes, this cause issues every time there's an incident.

[Jim]

This talk of the construction zone around Victor/Rochester has me thinking about a plan for the drive I will be making on Monday morning.  We will be coming in on the Thruway westbound and aim to get to RIT before 9 AM.  I'm fairly familiar with the area but have rarely traveled it at rush hour, and definitely not with this construction project potentially complicating things.  Thoughts on whether we're better off using 45 or 46?  Something else?  How much extra time should be budget in because of it being rush hour and the ongoing construction?

[vdeane]

This talk of the construction zone around Victor/Rochester has me thinking about a plan for the drive I will be making on Monday morning.  We will be coming in on the Thruway westbound and aim to get to RIT before 9 AM.  I'm fairly familiar with the area but have rarely traveled it at rush hour, and definitely not with this construction project potentially complicating things.  Thoughts on whether we're better off using 45 or 46?  Something else?  How much extra time should be budget in because of it being rush hour and the ongoing construction?

Exit 46 is closer to RIT anyways, so that would probably make more sense than taking I-490 up and then heading back down.  I don't know how the work zone behaves around the AM rush hour, but it sounded like mainly a Friday/Saturday afternoon problem earlier in the thread; I would think planning to use the left lane and building in 5-10 extra minutes just in case would cover it (I think I had 15 minutes of delay when I encountered it WB, and that was a Friday afternoon where I didn't know to keep left).

[webny99]

I actually haven't had an issue with that one on the two times I've gotten on there since they set this up.  It helps that exit 45 still has an actual merge area.  Is this more of a thing at peak times like Friday afternoon?

Not just Fridays... it was every afternoon last week, and today the backups started by 10AM and lasted until around 4. It's basically a slightly more condensed version of last year's EB zipper merge for the bridge replacements. Impacts in Victor have been bad at times but varied quite a bit, presumably based on how visible the backup is from Exit 29.

This talk of the construction zone around Victor/Rochester has me thinking about a plan for the drive I will be making on Monday morning.  We will be coming in on the Thruway westbound and aim to get to RIT before 9 AM.  I'm fairly familiar with the area but have rarely traveled it at rush hour, and definitely not with this construction project potentially complicating things.  Thoughts on whether we're better off using 45 or 46?  Something else?  How much extra time should be budget in because of it being rush hour and the ongoing construction?

Exit 46 is closer to RIT anyways, so that would probably make more sense than taking I-490 up and then heading back down.  I don't know how the work zone behaves around the AM rush hour, but it sounded like mainly a Friday/Saturday afternoon problem earlier in the thread; I would think planning to use the left lane and building in 5-10 extra minutes just in case would cover it (I think I had 15 minutes of delay when I encountered it WB, and that was a Friday afternoon where I didn't know to keep left).

Yes, agreed regarding Exit 46. Fortunately morning rush hour effects have been minimal because regular non-commuter traffic on the Thruway doesn't start building until 9-10 AM, but I'd recommend using the left lane through the work zone regardless.

I would also advise against getting off the Thruway between 44 and 45 in almost any circumstance aside from a complete stoppage or closure. The local road network in Victor has severe limitations and can quickly become a nightmare to navigate anytime anything happens on the Thruway.

[Roadgeek Adam]

I dunno what part of getting off at 45 you find confusing? Having done tons of local deliveries throughout Monroe County, you can just go into Pittsford and take 252 to RIT if needed.

[vdeane]

Not just Fridays... it was every afternoon last week, and today the backups started by 10AM and lasted until around 4. It's basically a slightly more condensed version of last year's EB zipper merge for the bridge replacements. Impacts in Victor have been bad at times but varied quite a bit, presumably based on how visible the backup is from Exit 29.

Interesting; I was there last Sunday (7/19) at 12:45 and everything was moving fine.  I think the whole climbing lane up the hill was still there and everything, so there should be much more room to merge than at 44.  It doesn't hurt that the lanes merge back quicker and then you're out of the work zone, while WB is a work zone the whole way.

I dunno what part of getting off at 45 you find confusing? Having done tons of local deliveries throughout Monroe County, you can just go into Pittsford and take 252 to RIT if needed.

No so much confusing as unnecessarily out of the way.  As I type this, it's 20 minutes I-390/Hylan Dr/NY 252, 23 minutes I-490/NY 96/NY 252, and 25 minutes I-490/I-590/I-390/Brighton-Henrietta Town Line Road/NY 252.