New York State Thruway

[vdeane]

At this point I'm wondering if it would be fair to rank the Thruway as the second-worst Turnpike (clipped)

For me, just the apparent refusal to cooperate on getting the Thruway portions of I-87 and I-90 to have standard mile markers consistent with their non-Thruway portions, and the appropriate and consistent mileage-based exit numbers matching those routes is enough for me to rank them as the worst.  That's before my multiple unresolved fights with them about E-ZPass problems and my complaints about lane configurations especially at Exit 24.

To be fair, the New Jersey Turnpike is the same way.

^^ It seems to me that making the EB left lane exit only and the middle lane having an option to exit or not would be better than having everyone squeeze into the left lane then split into 2.  Just some paint and sign updates?  On the other hand, the way it is now, I am confident I can breeze past the people stacking up in the left lane and pretty close to every time there's plenty of room to slide in where the left lane splits.

Yeah, this has always struck me as odd.  On any NYSDOT road, that would likely be handled with the left lane being I-90, the right Thruway, and the middle an option lane.  The only reason I can think of for why the Thruway did it the way they did is to favor Thruway traffic over commuter traffic by piling the commuters into the left lane.

New Tappan Zee did eat a lot of money, and Cuomo didn't want to raise tolls. Right now they are borrowing heavily to service those debts.

They've had issues even longer... just look at how the pavement between exits 39 and 40 didn't last even through it was rebuilt in 2009-2011, or how the Williamsville Toll Barrier replacement project (they were supposed to build a new barrier west of Pembroke that would have ORT lanes just like Woodbury did) kept getting delayed until AET made it moot (mostly - they still charge a toll between exits 49 and 50).

[Rothman]

At this point I'm wondering if it would be fair to rank the Thruway as the second-worst Turnpike (clipped)

For me, just the apparent refusal to cooperate on getting the Thruway portions of I-87 and I-90 to have standard mile markers consistent with their non-Thruway portions, and the appropriate and consistent mileage-based exit numbers matching those routes is enough for me to rank them as the worst.  That's before my multiple unresolved fights with them about E-ZPass problems and my complaints about lane configurations especially at Exit 24.

I'd also add the apparent total lack of interest in a long term plan for interchange improvements or mainline widening post-AET.

I do wonder if anything will ever become of the Comprehensive Safety Action Plan (CSAP). Whoever is responsible for handling the public feedback portion will certainly have their hands full.

New Tappan Zee did eat a lot of money, and Cuomo didn't want to raise tolls. Right now they are borrowing heavily to service those debts.

Doesn't look like debt service is a huge part of their budget, though (30% or so?), although I might be missing something in their reports.

[Beltway]

Somewhere the Thruway went from being the gold standard in how to run a toll road to the disaster it is today.

At this point I'm wondering if it would be fair to rank the Thruway as the second-worst Turnpike (with only the Indiana Toll Road being worse).  As much as we like to make fun of the Pennsylvania Turnpike and how they have a ton of breezewoods and take forever to build anything, at least they do build stuff.  I'm convinced that the Thruway would forever remain fossilized in their current state if left to their own devices; pretty much every change in the past decade has been pushed by the governor.  I expect that even interchange reconfigurations like exit 31 will probably end up being pushed by NYSDOT rather than NYSTA.
(personal opinion)

Well it took a massive amount of money, $3.5 billion, to replace the Tappan Zee Bridge with considerably wider bridges. So NYSTA did spend that.

What parts have a true need for 6-lane widening? NYC area to Albany? Other areas?

[lstone19]

I have both an Illinois and an NYSTA EZ-Pass - the NYSTA one due to to the transponder discrimination you mentioned as I am on the Thruway every few years but when there, on it a fair amount

Given that Illinois has switched to sticker transponders, how do you plan to handle this going forward

I forgot about that. But it's a problem that's two years off for me as my hard I-Pass is good until 12/2028. So no change until then, then either use the NYSTA EZ-Pass (as Illinois does not do transponder discrimination) or I'll try one of those cling sheets that claim can be used to move a sticker transponder from car to car.

Somewhere the Thruway went from being the gold standard in how to run a toll road to the disaster it is today.

At this point I'm wondering if it would be fair to rank the Thruway as the second-worst Turnpike (with only the Indiana Toll Road being worse).

It's been years since I've been on the Indiana Toll Road but had a bad experience thanks to the gates on their EZ-Pass lanes (apparently, better to delay dozens of motorists several minutes than miss one toll). At the time, one "car" EZ-Pass lane at the west end mainline barrier on the left and one "truck" EZ-Pass on the right. I assumed it said "Trucks" as they didn't want trucks going over to the left but as the car lane was at a standstill due to a non-EZ-Pass car trying to go through it, I went to the right and got charged as an 18-wheeler. Took a couple of months to get that corrected.

Exit 24 is a mess, but is there any low hanging fruit for reconfiguration?
I can see direct free 87 to Thruway 87 as a most worthwhile step - but whatever it is, cheap it isn't.

Hey, some of use are old enough to remember when 24 was a regular trumpet interchange with a slow single lane slog for eastbound 90 traffic exiting and southbound 87 traffic entering. Plus it required SB 87 and WB 90 traffic to do a weave in addition to getting a ticket at the toll plaza (for the WB 90 / SB 87 short multiplex, 90 traffic entered on the left and exited on the right and v.v. for 87). For that matter, so was 15 and our normal trip (mostly as a teen not yet driving) was between 15 and 24.

[cl94]

They've had issues even longer... just look at how the pavement between exits 39 and 40 didn't last even through it was rebuilt in 2009-2011, or how the Williamsville Toll Barrier replacement project (they were supposed to build a new barrier west of Pembroke that would have ORT lanes just like Woodbury did) kept getting delayed until AET made it moot (mostly - they still charge a toll between exits 49 and 50).

Ah, yes, the Pembroke relocation project that never happened. Would have involved at least one new interchange (Gunnville Road), possibly more, and that interchange is sorely needed today. The Gunnville Road interchange that never happened is linked to the Lancaster bypass (possibly US 20 realignment) that never happened, but that's another story.

[kalvado]

At this point I'm wondering if it would be fair to rank the Thruway as the second-worst Turnpike (clipped)

For me, just the apparent refusal to cooperate on getting the Thruway portions of I-87 and I-90 to have standard mile markers consistent with their non-Thruway portions, and the appropriate and consistent mileage-based exit numbers matching those routes is enough for me to rank them as the worst.  That's before my multiple unresolved fights with them about E-ZPass problems and my complaints about lane configurations especially at Exit 24.

I'd also add the apparent total lack of interest in a long term plan for interchange improvements or mainline widening post-AET.

I do wonder if anything will ever become of the Comprehensive Safety Action Plan (CSAP). Whoever is responsible for handling the public feedback portion will certainly have their hands full.

New Tappan Zee did eat a lot of money, and Cuomo didn't want to raise tolls. Right now they are borrowing heavily to service those debts.

Doesn't look like debt service is a huge part of their budget, though (30% or so?), although I might be missing something in their reports.

28% isn't huge?

[Rothman]

At this point I'm wondering if it would be fair to rank the Thruway as the second-worst Turnpike (clipped)

For me, just the apparent refusal to cooperate on getting the Thruway portions of I-87 and I-90 to have standard mile markers consistent with their non-Thruway portions, and the appropriate and consistent mileage-based exit numbers matching those routes is enough for me to rank them as the worst.  That's before my multiple unresolved fights with them about E-ZPass problems and my complaints about lane configurations especially at Exit 24.

I'd also add the apparent total lack of interest in a long term plan for interchange improvements or mainline widening post-AET.

I do wonder if anything will ever become of the Comprehensive Safety Action Plan (CSAP). Whoever is responsible for handling the public feedback portion will certainly have their hands full.

New Tappan Zee did eat a lot of money, and Cuomo didn't want to raise tolls. Right now they are borrowing heavily to service those debts.

Doesn't look like debt service is a huge part of their budget, though (30% or so?), although I might be missing something in their reports.

28% isn't huge?

Not really.  I mean, look at people's personal budgets and how much a mortgage takes up of theirs.

[kalvado]

At this point I'm wondering if it would be fair to rank the Thruway as the second-worst Turnpike (clipped)

For me, just the apparent refusal to cooperate on getting the Thruway portions of I-87 and I-90 to have standard mile markers consistent with their non-Thruway portions, and the appropriate and consistent mileage-based exit numbers matching those routes is enough for me to rank them as the worst.  That's before my multiple unresolved fights with them about E-ZPass problems and my complaints about lane configurations especially at Exit 24.

I'd also add the apparent total lack of interest in a long term plan for interchange improvements or mainline widening post-AET.

I do wonder if anything will ever become of the Comprehensive Safety Action Plan (CSAP). Whoever is responsible for handling the public feedback portion will certainly have their hands full.

New Tappan Zee did eat a lot of money, and Cuomo didn't want to raise tolls. Right now they are borrowing heavily to service those debts.

Doesn't look like debt service is a huge part of their budget, though (30% or so?), although I might be missing something in their reports.

28% isn't huge?

Not really.  I mean, look at people's personal budgets and how much a mortgage takes up of theirs.

Well, for one - good chunk of mortgage payments are taxes and insurance. True debt service is lower.
And if you want to compare things with mortgage... Most people don't buy a second house until they pay off the first one. It ties hands up. So that's pretty much what is going on with Thruway - they are busy paying off that "mortgage", with only a limited budget for construction. So you're not wrong in your comparison!   

[Rothman]

At this point I'm wondering if it would be fair to rank the Thruway as the second-worst Turnpike (clipped)

For me, just the apparent refusal to cooperate on getting the Thruway portions of I-87 and I-90 to have standard mile markers consistent with their non-Thruway portions, and the appropriate and consistent mileage-based exit numbers matching those routes is enough for me to rank them as the worst.  That's before my multiple unresolved fights with them about E-ZPass problems and my complaints about lane configurations especially at Exit 24.

I'd also add the apparent total lack of interest in a long term plan for interchange improvements or mainline widening post-AET.

I do wonder if anything will ever become of the Comprehensive Safety Action Plan (CSAP). Whoever is responsible for handling the public feedback portion will certainly have their hands full.

New Tappan Zee did eat a lot of money, and Cuomo didn't want to raise tolls. Right now they are borrowing heavily to service those debts.

Doesn't look like debt service is a huge part of their budget, though (30% or so?), although I might be missing something in their reports.

28% isn't huge?

Not really.  I mean, look at people's personal budgets and how much a mortgage takes up of theirs.

Well, for one - good chunk of mortgage payments are taxes and insurance. True debt service is lower.
And if you want to compare things with mortgage... Most people don't buy a second house until they pay off the first one. It ties hands up. So that's pretty much what is going on with Thruway - they are busy paying off that "mortgage", with only a limited budget for construction. So you're not wrong in your comparison!   

Makes me wonder about the debt service of the rich that follow the Buy, Borrow, Die way of increasing wealth through leveraging debt.

[kalvado]

Well, for one - good chunk of mortgage payments are taxes and insurance. True debt service is lower.
And if you want to compare things with mortgage... Most people don't buy a second house until they pay off the first one. It ties hands up. So that's pretty much what is going on with Thruway - they are busy paying off that "mortgage", with only a limited budget for construction. So you're not wrong in your comparison!   

Makes me wonder about the debt service of the rich that follow the Buy, Borrow, Die way of increasing wealth through leveraging debt.

Good question... But I wouldn't call Thruway "rich" at this point.

[Rothman]

Well, for one - good chunk of mortgage payments are taxes and insurance. True debt service is lower.
And if you want to compare things with mortgage... Most people don't buy a second house until they pay off the first one. It ties hands up. So that's pretty much what is going on with Thruway - they are busy paying off that "mortgage", with only a limited budget for construction. So you're not wrong in your comparison!   

Makes me wonder about the debt service of the rich that follow the Buy, Borrow, Die way of increasing wealth through leveraging debt.

Good question... But I wouldn't call Thruway "rich" at this point.

*shrug*

Show me a business not leveraging debt and I'll show you a business bound to be outcompeted.