Identifying locations by township, state (no county)

[vtk]

I've seen this in news media, and on TV game shows that say where their contestants are from. A location is identified like "Liberty Township, Indiana".  Maybe the location is rural and not near any specific town. Maybe the area has become fairly built-up without an incorporated municipality.  So the people there name their township as there hometown or as a stand-in for a hometown.

The problem is, it's ambiguous. There are probably several townships called Liberty Township in Indiana, to continue the example. And nobody seems to realize this. Not the people on the ground who live there. Not the people who put the township name on the TV screen or in the dateline of a news article. Surely a geography nerd like me, or a US Census worker, knows a county name is also usually necessary for disambiguation. But nobody asks us.

It annoys me every time I see it.

[roadman65]

What about New Jersey and its many different Washington Townships.  Three of them are within ten miles of each other to make matters more confusing.

Then you have Freehold Township and Freehold Borough, however both are next to each other with the borough being in the hole of the Doughnut which is it's same named township so it could be considered synonymous in this case.

Also Dover Township, Ocean County, NJ finally changed its name to what the Post Office has been referring to it for centuries as, that is Toms River!  That avoids the Dover, Morris County, NJ confusion which most people would think of when you mentioned Dover, NJ anyway.

[vdeane]

It's because the reason for identifying the municipality is to make the situation feel more personal, learn about the person, and to establish rapport, not to actually pin down where someone is from.  Most people probably just use whatever USPS does for their address anyways, or the name of the nearest metro.  On a local program (rather than a nationally broadcast gameshow) the county is redundant anyways because you don't tend to have duplicated municipality names in the same tv/radio broadcast area.

[Zeffy]

Most people probably just use whatever USPS does for their address anyways, or the name of the nearest metro.

That's impossible for me at least, because I'm 25 miles from Trenton, 10 miles from New Brunswick, and 50 miles or so from New York City. Interestingly enough, Trenton is actually part of the NYC MSA, so I guess if I wanted to be a troll I could say I live in NYC (and I definitely do not). Hence why I just put my boring town of Hillsborough in.

[Brandon]

I've seen this in news media, and on TV game shows that say where their contestants are from. A location is identified like "Liberty Township, Indiana".  Maybe the location is rural and not near any specific town. Maybe the area has become fairly built-up without an incorporated municipality.  So the people there name their township as there hometown or as a stand-in for a hometown.

The problem is, it's ambiguous. There are probably several townships called Liberty Township in Indiana, to continue the example. And nobody seems to realize this. Not the people on the ground who live there. Not the people who put the township name on the TV screen or in the dateline of a news article. Surely a geography nerd like me, or a US Census worker, knows a county name is also usually necessary for disambiguation. But nobody asks us.

It annoys me every time I see it.

Some states (like Michigan) have charter townships, which act as a lower-level municipality.  Hence, something will be identified sometimes by the township, i.e. Benton Charter Township.

[jp the roadgeek]

Nobody from New England ever mentions they're from such and such county. It's always (nearest big) city and state.

[vtk]

Nobody from New England ever mentions they're from such and such county. It's always (nearest big) city and state.

And that's not what I was complaining about.

[jeffandnicole]

I've seen this in news media, and on TV game shows that say where their contestants are from. A location is identified like "Liberty Township, Indiana".  Maybe the location is rural and not near any specific town. Maybe the area has become fairly built-up without an incorporated municipality.  So the people there name their township as there hometown or as a stand-in for a hometown.

The problem is, it's ambiguous. There are probably several townships called Liberty Township in Indiana, to continue the example. And nobody seems to realize this. Not the people on the ground who live there. Not the people who put the township name on the TV screen or in the dateline of a news article. Surely a geography nerd like me, or a US Census worker, knows a county name is also usually necessary for disambiguation. But nobody asks us.

It annoys me every time I see it.

This comes from a guy who states their location is "Columbus".

[vtk]

This comes from a guy who states their location is "Columbus".

"South Jersey", eh?  Would that refer to a location in Georgia (US state), Arkansas, New Jersey (US state), Illinois, Ohio, or the English Channel?

[jeffandnicole]

This comes from a guy who states their location is "Columbus".

"South Jersey", eh?  Would that refer to a location in Georgia (US state), Arkansas, New Jersey (US state), Illinois, Ohio, or the English Channel?

I wasn't the one that has an issue with one's stated location.

My actual personal opinion is that if you're on TV announcing yourself to the world, you're better off being vague about your location.  "Hey, I'm from such and such a town" and 30 minutes later you're $100,000 richer from game show winnings, well now everyone knows where you're from and can reasonably figure out how to get a hold of you.

[empirestate]

I find that usually when a placename for a minor civil division is given this way, it's because the placename has greater recognition than your typical MCD and thus isn't likely to be confused with other MCDs of the same name. Or least, no more so than the confusion between an incorporated placename and an MCD of the same name elsewhere in the state.

For example, Clinton Township, MI is probably best recognized as being the one north of Detroit, though there are two others. Likewise, Rochester, NY is almost certainly referring to the city and not to the town in Ulster County.

And anyhow, if the location really is remote or obscure enough to warrant an ambiguous identification, I'd actually prefer that to being given the name of a larger town or city that the person isn't really from.

[roadman65]

Nobody from New England ever mentions they're from such and such county. It's always (nearest big) city and state.

And that's not what I was complaining about.

Well you have to take a look at what roles county government plays in the state for instance.  In Florida you have plenty of unincorporated areas, so you need to identify as a county by name.

In New Jersey, we had no unincorporated areas so we all lived in a proper township, borough, city, etc.  Plus there was really no difference in distinctions between counties in NJ, as they all could not make any major changes that would make laws differ in each except for Sunday Blue Laws which Bergen to this day won't allow Sunday shopping.  Other than that the tax rate is the same and other prominent stuff is the same.

In many other states, like in Florida we have some counties dry without liquor, some  of themwith higher taxes than others even, as our state government allows each county more powers to them than the Garden State allows their counties to have. 

New York also is a state with a lot of power given to the counties by the state, but there people still use proper town and municipal names more so than county names except for Long Island where you do hear Nassau and Suffolk used a lot in identification.  Some use the abbreviation "LI" over "NY" when describing the city they reside or have a business in as if Long Island was its own state.

It all depends on the thought process of the state you are in.  Just like roads as in NJ I-80 is Route 80, but here in Florida I-4 is I-4.  I even had to get used to it when I first moved here as I used to call I-4 as Route 4 being originally from NJ until I heard others call it by interstate abbreviation designation.

[vdeane]

NY is also an interesting case because we give broad powers to counties but also have no unincorporated areas.

[roadman65]

NY is also an interesting case because we give broad powers to counties but also have no unincorporated areas.

I was wondering about NYS.  So basically even the most rural areas of the Adirondacks is part of a town then even when no roads go there and its miles to the nearest one.

That means that each of the Thousand Islands, all part of Jefferson County, NY, are then part of an incorporated town or city then including Wellesly Island?

[empirestate]

NY is also an interesting case because we give broad powers to counties but also have no unincorporated areas.

I was wondering about NYS.  So basically even the most rural areas of the Adirondacks is part of a town then even when no roads go there and its miles to the nearest one.

That means that each of the Thousand Islands, all part of Jefferson County, NY, are then part of an incorporated town or city then including Wellesly Island?

That's right, although in common practice the term "incorporated" is reserved in NYS for villages and cities. Towns, while organized and functioning governmental units, are not considered to be incorporated territory. And on Indian reservations, the Census Bureau does not recognize the existence of towns, although they do have boundaries officially drawn through the reservation lands.

[jemacedo9]

The news media outlets in Philadelphia are very good about using the township and county name in their reports:  Springfield Twp Delaware vs Montgomery County, for example.

[roadman65]

Some areas just do that and some don't.  In New Jersey the name itself was sufficient without a descriptor except in the case of Freehold where you have both a Borough and Township together.  I would imagine that Eyewittness News would then use the descriptor then to avoid confusion.

However, there is a Harrison, NJ and a Harrison, NY which are both in the NYC metro area.  Yet once when a fire broke out in the Westchester Harrison, they did not specify New York so I assumed that Harrison, NJ was where the tragedy took place.

I assume that many other NJ residents besides me might of thought the same especially if no one knows that there is a Harrison, NY which I could safely assume.  Being we have people who live in Orlando who have no idea where Belle Isle is (that is a bedroom community near Orlando International Airport that is a suburb of the city) , I can be certain that many people in North Jersey do not know it exists as well.  I would not even be a bit surprised if there are people on Staten Island who do not even know of both Harrisons either the way things are now, but that is a different story.

Anyway, NY TV and Radio seem to be more focused on NY happenings and put NJ and CT on the back burner.  Even WWOR which is supposed to be NJ's own VHF station, seems to report the news from a NY perspective.
I am sure that Cherry Hill, NJ is Cherry Hill Township on Philly area stations as I would assume that they are the same as NY is with the news reporting from their lifestyle and not NJ's either.

[PHLBOS]

The news media outlets in Philadelphia are very good about using the township and county name in their reports:  Springfield Twp Delaware vs Montgomery County, for example.

With townships having identical names but located in different counties (especially when the counties are adjacent to one another); one almost doesn't have a real choice but to mention both for clarity reasons.

[vdeane]

NY is also an interesting case because we give broad powers to counties but also have no unincorporated areas.

I was wondering about NYS.  So basically even the most rural areas of the Adirondacks is part of a town then even when no roads go there and its miles to the nearest one.

That means that each of the Thousand Islands, all part of Jefferson County, NY, are then part of an incorporated town or city then including Wellesly Island?

Yep.  Every part of the Adirondacks is covered by towns, albeit very big towns (which often have roads that you have to drive though another town/county to get to).  There are towns in that part of the state that can compete with counties in terms of land area, and I'm not talking about the little NYC counties either.

The islands are part of whatever town is directly in front of them on shore (mostly)... even Wellesley island, which is split between two towns (Alexandria and Orleans), and the border is such that one cannot move between the mainland and island portions of either town without passing through the other (at least the Orleans/Clayton line does move to keep the westernmost part of the island from being in a third town).  The Village of Alexandria Bay even owns at least 20 islands (Clayton only owns two; other village boundaries do not extend over the water).

[jwolfer]

Some areas just do that and some don't.  In New Jersey the name itself was sufficient without a descriptor except in the case of Freehold where you have both a Borough and Township together.  I would imagine that Eyewittness News would then use the descriptor then to avoid confusion.

However, there is a Harrison, NJ and a Harrison, NY which are both in the NYC metro area.  Yet once when a fire broke out in the Westchester Harrison, they did not specify New York so I assumed that Harrison, NJ was where the tragedy took place.

I assume that many other NJ residents besides me might of thought the same especially if no one knows that there is a Harrison, NY which I could safely assume.  Being we have people who live in Orlando who have no idea where Belle Isle is (that is a bedroom community near Orlando International Airport that is a suburb of the city) , I can be certain that many people in North Jersey do not know it exists as well.  I would not even be a bit surprised if there are people on Staten Island who do not even know of both Harrisons either the way things are now, but that is a different story.

Anyway, NY TV and Radio seem to be more focused on NY happenings and put NJ and CT on the back burner.  Even WWOR which is supposed to be NJ's own VHF station, seems to report the news from a NY perspective.
I am sure that Cherry Hill, NJ is Cherry Hill Township on Philly area stations as I would assume that they are the same as NY is with the news reporting from their lifestyle and not NJ's either.

I grew up in Ocean County NJ. Officially part if NYC media market. But we had both sets of channels on cable.  The Philadelphia TV channels seemed to cover Ocean County better than NY channels. In general Philadelphia media includes the suburbs much more readily than NY. New York residents look down upon NJ more than Westchester county, CT or Long island

[6a]

NY is also an interesting case because we give broad powers to counties but also have no unincorporated areas.

I was wondering about NYS.  So basically even the most rural areas of the Adirondacks is part of a town then even when no roads go there and its miles to the nearest one.

That means that each of the Thousand Islands, all part of Jefferson County, NY, are then part of an incorporated town or city then including Wellesly Island?

Yep.  Every part of the Adirondacks is covered by towns, albeit very big towns (which often have roads that you have to drive though another town/county to get to).  There are towns in that part of the state that can compete with counties in terms of land area, and I'm not talking about the little NYC counties either.

The islands are part of whatever town is directly in front of them on shore (mostly)... even Wellesley island, which is split between two towns (Alexandria and Orleans), and the border is such that one cannot move between the mainland and island portions of either town without passing through the other (at least the Orleans/Clayton line does move to keep the westernmost part of the island from being in a third town).  The Village of Alexandria Bay even owns at least 20 islands (Clayton only owns two; other village boundaries do not extend over the water).

I was left with the impression a town in NY is similar to a township in Ohio; not incorporated as a city/village would be, but still with defined borders and a basic governmental structure set up to serve a more rural area (in theory.)  Absent laws or pacts to the contrary, a city/village can annex part of a township here, is that the case there?  Basically, in Ohio, a township is the default local government below the county level in the absence of any further organization.

[mukade]

I've seen this in news media, and on TV game shows that say where their contestants are from. A location is identified like "Liberty Township, Indiana".  Maybe the location is rural and not near any specific town. Maybe the area has become fairly built-up without an incorporated municipality.  So the people there name their township as there hometown or as a stand-in for a hometown.

The problem is, it's ambiguous. There are probably several townships called Liberty Township in Indiana, to continue the example. And nobody seems to realize this. Not the people on the ground who live there. Not the people who put the township name on the TV screen or in the dateline of a news article. Surely a geography nerd like me, or a US Census worker, knows a county name is also usually necessary for disambiguation. But nobody asks us.

It annoys me every time I see it.

As a person who does live in Liberty Twp., Indiana (one of many), I have very VERY rarely (if ever) heard anyone say they are from so-and-so, Twp. Townships are a very minor level of government in Indiana, and Mitch Daniels tried to get rid of them when he was governor. Almost always, people say the municipality of their ZIP code as their location. Even when a ZIP code boundary does not correspond to a city boundary, the ZIP generally trumps it. A very good example is Southlake Mall in Merrillville which is actually in Hobart.

The only place where I hear township names referenced frequently is in Marion County where the townships like Perry, Wayne, Franklin, Pike, etc. are actually in the city of Indianapolis. I guess it is a way to narrow down where you are in Indy, and these townships have their own school district.

[briantroutman]

I'd imagine your perception would vary based on the role townships fill within your state. In Pennsylvania, for example, townships are relatively strong and visible units of government. And within the context of a local news story, you might naturally flow from an incident ("...burglary in 300 block of Broad Street, Mill Township..." ) to the corresponding governmental agency ("...Mill Township Police are searching for suspects..." ).

Growing up, I lived in a PA township–went to township schools, had a township truck plow my street, and so on. Within a 10-20 mile radius, if anyone were to ask where I lived, I'd say "Loyalsock Township" –not "Williamsport"

On a national level, though, using an unfamiliar township name (especially when there are duplicates in a state) to identify a location in a news report is probably no more helpful than "150 miles north of Philadelphia" .

Some places just defy simple geographic identification. My in-laws used to live in a rural area in Luzerne County where the street address used a town name (Shickshinny) that was nearly a half-hour drive away. The place name that they most often used to describe their location was that of the nearest "town" , Sweet Valley, which was little more than a dozen homes and a diner a few miles down the road. Sweet Valley wasn't a municipality of any kind (not even a CDP), although it did have a ZIP code...but it didn't cover my in-laws.

[vdeane]

NY is also an interesting case because we give broad powers to counties but also have no unincorporated areas.

I was wondering about NYS.  So basically even the most rural areas of the Adirondacks is part of a town then even when no roads go there and its miles to the nearest one.

That means that each of the Thousand Islands, all part of Jefferson County, NY, are then part of an incorporated town or city then including Wellesly Island?

Yep.  Every part of the Adirondacks is covered by towns, albeit very big towns (which often have roads that you have to drive though another town/county to get to).  There are towns in that part of the state that can compete with counties in terms of land area, and I'm not talking about the little NYC counties either.

The islands are part of whatever town is directly in front of them on shore (mostly)... even Wellesley island, which is split between two towns (Alexandria and Orleans), and the border is such that one cannot move between the mainland and island portions of either town without passing through the other (at least the Orleans/Clayton line does move to keep the westernmost part of the island from being in a third town).  The Village of Alexandria Bay even owns at least 20 islands (Clayton only owns two; other village boundaries do not extend over the water).

I was left with the impression a town in NY is similar to a township in Ohio; not incorporated as a city/village would be, but still with defined borders and a basic governmental structure set up to serve a more rural area (in theory.)  Absent laws or pacts to the contrary, a city/village can annex part of a township here, is that the case there?  Basically, in Ohio, a township is the default local government below the county level in the absence of any further organization.

Essentially every part of NY is covered in a city, village, and/or town that has government, collects taxes, and does things like maintain local roads.  The more urbanized the town, the more like a city it starts to act.  We only use "incorporated" to refer to villages and cities, but in terms of function, it essentially describes towns as well (as opposed to hamlets and the unorganized townships in other states, like T16 R13 Wels in northern Maine), and all of these entities are under powerful county governments.

In terms of annexation, I believe it's more limited here than in other states.

[bulldog1979]

Every part of Michigan is part of a city or township. Two townships on the mainland of Keweenaw County extend northwesterly across Lake Superior to split Isle Royale between them, but I'm not sure if they incorporate the area on the lake in between or not.

If an area has been incorporated as a village, that municipality overlaps the section of the township(s) within its borders. Villages, like cities, may cross county lines, as the Village of Mackinaw City contains parts of Wawatam Township in Emmet County and Mackinaw Township in Cheboygan County. Residents of the village still vote for the appropriate township's officials and pay any township property taxes.

Townships come in two types: general law and charter. General law townships provide the most basic services like library services, tax collection, elections and fire protection. General law townships may provide police protection, but most townships are policed by the county sheriff's department under its general countywide jurisdiction.

A charter township's government has some enhanced taxation abilities and some reconfiguration of the township's government structure. A charter township also has greater powers to resist annexation over a general law township. With those abilities comes the requirement to provide police protection. The Charter Township of Marquette contracts with the Marquette County Sheriff's Department to have a dedicated deputy assigned at all times to the township; this deputy drives a car that bears "Marquette Township" on its rear fenders in addition to the standard MCSD markings. Negaunee Township's board was considering assuming charter township status to prevent any future potential annexation of land by Marquette Township. The board could have chartered itself, but the maximum property rate they could have assessed would have been lower than if they submitted the proposal to the voters.

As for roads, villages and cities have jurisdiction over their streets unless a street is classified as a county road or a state trunkline. Townships do not have jurisdiction over roads. So pretty much in Michigan if a roadway isn't a state highway or a city/village street, it's a county road.

Other than a few places, most people wouldn't describe their location in Michigan as X Township. Instead, they'd use whatever location is used by the USPS for their mailing address, or a more specific "location". South of the community of Palmer in Richmond Township is Suomi Location, and it has own distinct "identity". Even within some of the cities, we have locations (Cambria Location or Rolling Mill Location within Negaunee) that function more like neighborhoods in large cities. The local news here in the UP will use townships as locations, and because most of the names are unique, they won't bother with county names.