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Author Topic: I-39/U.S 51 (FAP 412) History  (Read 14340 times)

Revive 755

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Re: I-39/U.S 51 (FAP 412) History
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2015, 09:39:18 PM »

^ I was going to dispute the US 67 freeway a top two mistake - I was leaning towards the failure to build the East St. Louis - Marion freeway - but then I started wondering how completion of the US 67 corridor prior the start of the Avenue of the Saints planning would have worked out.
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3467

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Re: I-39/U.S 51 (FAP 412) History
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2015, 10:20:12 PM »

I am biased 34-67.....I think it would have helped. Corridor 67 was formed after we lost the avenue . Jacksonville really deserves the credit for it . It helps now that Oakley of the IL 110 has joined up. I am pleased that IDOT has made it upgradable from Monmouth south North of Monmouth a third lane could easily be added . The same in Wisconsin. The big problem was Wisconsin it would have been very difficult for an interstate. I can say they could add a continuous passing lane easily . The little towns are not a big slowdown but La Crosse sucks
IDOT had an opportunity right at 1970 where it could have issued a big bond and build all the supplementals  for maybe 4 billion. It should have Ironically the pensions were in worse shape then. The state would have had another asset too. Right now I think 2 billion would cover everything under study ex 20. Illinois is not broke its just poorly governed
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I-39

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Re: I-39/U.S 51 (FAP 412) History
« Reply #27 on: January 26, 2015, 10:27:47 PM »

^ I was going to dispute the US 67 freeway a top two mistake - I was leaning towards the failure to build the East St. Louis - Marion freeway - but then I started wondering how completion of the US 67 corridor prior the start of the Avenue of the Saints planning would have worked out.

Nah, Marion to East St. Louis wasn't really necessary because you already have I-64.

Western Illinois is bereft of a North-South Interstate highway, and that has cost the area economically. Western Illinois University is an hour and a half away from the nearest Interstate. Upgrading U.S 67 to Interstate standards would have helped Western Illinois tremendously. I'm surprised it didn't get a NAFTA priority designation like U.S 67 in Missouri did. It would've been a better investment than the Peoria to Quincy highway that is currently being built/proposed.
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3467

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Re: I-39/U.S 51 (FAP 412) History
« Reply #28 on: January 26, 2015, 10:45:39 PM »

Yes WIU is having serious enrollment problems
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cwm1276

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Re: I-39/U.S 51 (FAP 412) History
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2015, 09:49:45 AM »

Adam its Illinois often there is no logic I don't know how guys like Rick Powell could take it but that is what we have . That said I have been finding the worst traffic problems keep happening on the stretch of 39 between the Reagan and Adams. I saw truck is up to 11,000 which is the same as 80 in eastern Iowa .
Also there are Travel times for it . It seems tied for the tollway Anyone know about it . Right now northbound travel time is 94 mins as opposed to the usual 22 mins
http://www.travelmidwest.com/lmiga/map.jsp?mapname=chicagoArea

I drive I-39 North of 88 daily.  There was an accident at US20 causing major backups.  That single lane of 39 makes it tough. District 2 has even said they are behind the curve on 39 as they did not expect the levels of traffic.
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mrose

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Re: I-39/U.S 51 (FAP 412) History
« Reply #30 on: January 27, 2015, 03:08:02 PM »

The section from US 20 to I-88 was always much more heavy than further south, due to all the Wisconsin and northern Illinois traffic heading to Iowa and points west. That was always our route of choice back in the day (90 to 88 to 80) whenever we headed from Madison to Omaha and Lincoln. This was well before the 151 and 20 expressways in SW WI and NE Iowa were a thing.

The infamous 15 cent toll booths on US 20 prior to joining the I-90 tollway were notable for backing way up at all hours of the night. I haven't traveled in the area for more than 15 years now so I don't know how things are these days, but that whole mess was classic Illinois cluster-f**k of a situation.

Before I-43 was extended south from Milwaukee, I believe the plan was to put it down WI 15 (as it would) and then route it down the new 51 freeway to make one continuous Interstate 43 from Green Bay to B-N, but Illinois balked at this.

My memory is that I-39 did not appear until the section to I-80 was finished; prior to that I believe it was just US 51.

« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 03:10:16 PM by mrose »
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I-39

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Re: I-39/U.S 51 (FAP 412) History
« Reply #31 on: January 27, 2015, 05:45:55 PM »

The infamous 15 cent toll booths on US 20 prior to joining the I-90 tollway were notable for backing way up at all hours of the night. I haven't traveled in the area for more than 15 years now so I don't know how things are these days, but that whole mess was classic Illinois cluster-f**k of a situation.

Those tolls were decommissioned in 2003-2004, and they were fully torn down when the tollway's Cherry Valley Interchange reconstruction project took place. That project certainly has helped, but additional improvements are needed further south.

I recently contacted IDOT regarding the status of the project that will rebuild the I-39 interchange with U.S 20 to make it two lane ramps that are high speed, reconstruct the U.S 20 Harrison Ave interchange into a DDI, and reconstruct and widen I-39/U.S 20 to six lanes from the tollway to the I-39/U.S 20 split off. They said they hope to have Final FHWA approval by early next year, but no funding is available beyond Phase I. Typical IDOT :rolleyes:

Ideally, they ought to realign I-39 to go straight towards I-90 rather than the current configuration where you have to merge on with the U.S 20 bypass. That would make it so you would exit I-39 to go on U.S 20 westbound, rather than exiting U.S 20 westbound to travel on I-39 southbound. Unfortunately, there is not enough land to do that, it would require destroying a ton of houses.
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I-39

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Re: I-39/U.S 51 (FAP 412) History
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2015, 07:28:57 PM »

One other thing I forgot to mention here.

Do you think Decatur is suffering economically from the lack of a north-south Interstate? If I-39 had been built at least to Decatur at the stub ramps, would that have helped provide better connections north? I mean, would it save more time then having to cut over to Springfield or Champaign-Urbana?
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Stratuscaster

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Re: I-39/U.S 51 (FAP 412) History
« Reply #33 on: February 07, 2015, 07:07:29 PM »

Is the 4-lane US-51 not suitable anymore for traffic between Bloomington-Normal and Decatur?

Obviously an I-39 with limited access would speed things up a bit - but significantly more than the ~45 minutes today on US-51? Not sure there.
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I-39

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Re: I-39/U.S 51 (FAP 412) History
« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2015, 08:09:29 PM »

Is the 4-lane US-51 not suitable anymore for traffic between Bloomington-Normal and Decatur?

Obviously an I-39 with limited access would speed things up a bit - but significantly more than the ~45 minutes today on US-51? Not sure there.

Not necessarily so much the travel time (it's around an hour actually), what I'm trying to say is, has Decatur suffered economically by the lack of a north-south Interstate?

As I stated, when FAP 412 was being planned in the 1970's, initially, only the area between Rockford and Decatur was high priority for construction. However, only the section between Rockford and Bloomington-Normal was constructed to Interstate-standards. It was decided by Gov. Jim Thompson (and "special interest groups") that the section between Bloomington-Normal and Decatur would simply be constructed as a four-lane expressway using the existing U.S 51. Mind you they also wanted the section between LaSalle-Peru and Bloomington-Normal to be an expressway, but leaders fought hard for an interstate road. The ironic thing is initially, there was more support for an interstate freeway between B-Normal and Decatur than there was between LaSalle-Peru and B-Normal.

The city of Decatur itself wanted U.S 51 to be built to Interstate-standards down to them, but they could not convince IDOT to do so, despite the fact that in 1980, it had a bigger population that Bloomington and Normal combined. Decatur has lost over 20,000 residents since 1980, shortly after the decision was made not to continue FAP 412 as an Interstate south of Bloomington-Normal. Decatur feared they may not be able to keep up economically, and they were right.

Rockford, LaSalle-Peru and Bloomington-Normal all benefit from Interstate 39, while Decatur (and communities further south) have suffered. Had FAP 412 been built to Interstate standards at least to Decatur, would they be suffering as much economically? I'd say no, because......

1. They'd have access to a north-south Interstate highway (even if it was just to the north), making better connectivity to the northern half of the state and making the area more attractive for businesses.

2. Even if the Interstate didn't continue south of Decatur initially (because it wasn't a high priority), if Interstate 39 ran to Decatur today, there would likely be more pressure to continue the Interstate south to I-57.

3. Extending Interstate 39 south of Bloomington-Normal through Decatur and to I-57 would cut down traffic on I-55 and I-57 and become and economic boon for Central Illinois.

I find it odd how they are pushing to four-lane U.S 51 south to Centralia for economic benefits, but in reality, not a lot of traffic will use a non-interstate U.S 51 (because it's not fully access controlled).
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3467

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Re: I-39/U.S 51 (FAP 412) History
« Reply #35 on: February 07, 2015, 10:45:25 PM »

Decatur has really suffered from the massive decline in manufacturing. B-N would have done better anyway because it has State Farm and ISU . Sad but True
I have the IDOT planning document for south of Decatur. Decatur wants the project more than well all the rest of the area and Vandalia doesn't want the bypass so I don't know what will happen there
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I-39

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Re: I-39/U.S 51 (FAP 412) History
« Reply #36 on: February 07, 2015, 11:03:02 PM »

Decatur has really suffered from the massive decline in manufacturing. B-N would have done better anyway because it has State Farm and ISU . Sad but True
I have the IDOT planning document for south of Decatur. Decatur wants the project more than well all the rest of the area and Vandalia doesn't want the bypass so I don't know what will happen there

Again, in this situation, if it is not built to interstate standards, it's not worth it at all. As far as I know, there is no push to upgrade to interstate standards.
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3467

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Re: I-39/U.S 51 (FAP 412) History
« Reply #37 on: February 07, 2015, 11:11:12 PM »

Right ,only the us 20 section is being studied as a freeway every other study is an expressway(or less)
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3467

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Re: I-39/U.S 51 (FAP 412) History
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2015, 04:51:15 PM »

http://www.idot.illinois.gov/projects/US-51-Shelby-County

US 51 study just went up on IDOT BTW there is a gas tax push to build something

http://capitolfax.com/2015/02/05/tax-hikes-under-discussion/#comments  so IDOT has kept adding goodies
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I-39

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Re: I-39/U.S 51 (FAP 412) History
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2015, 04:59:33 PM »

http://www.idot.illinois.gov/projects/US-51-Shelby-County

US 51 study just went up on IDOT BTW there is a gas tax push to build something

http://capitolfax.com/2015/02/05/tax-hikes-under-discussion/#comments  so IDOT has kept adding goodies

Ugh, that is so annoying. mostly at-grade intersections and not even properly bypassing Vandalia. If it is not going to be built to Interstate standards, forget it, its a waste of money for a highway no one is going to use. Truckers and traffic want controlled access Interstate highways, not partial access expressways...........
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3467

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Re: I-39/U.S 51 (FAP 412) History
« Reply #40 on: February 08, 2015, 05:02:23 PM »

I think passing lanes would be fine most of the route is under 3000 vpd and I don't see how IDOT can spend money when public support is so tepid
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I-39

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Re: I-39/U.S 51 (FAP 412) History
« Reply #41 on: February 08, 2015, 05:05:37 PM »

I think passing lanes would be fine most of the route is under 3000 vpd and I don't see how IDOT can spend money when public support is so tepid

It is low traffic because no one uses the road because it is a two lane highway. I truly believe in this case, if you extend I-39 to hook up with I-57 like originally planned, you'd see a spike in traffic. But don't build a watered down expressway.

I agree, if they don't want to build an Interstate, just construct passing lanes south of Pana and then focus on fixing U.S 51 between Bloomington and Decatur (i.e building a new freeway alignment)
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3467

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Re: I-39/U.S 51 (FAP 412) History
« Reply #42 on: February 08, 2015, 05:10:38 PM »

I think we agree the Traffic would be from 57/24 diversion to 39 . The town of Shelbeyville argued that a long time ago too and gave up in discouragement . The alignment you (and they ) thought would work best was near the supplemental freeway plan that was far east of this study
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I-39

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Re: I-39/U.S 51 (FAP 412) History
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2015, 05:16:42 PM »

I think we agree the Traffic would be from 57/24 diversion to 39 . The town of Shelbeyville argued that a long time ago too and gave up in discouragement . The alignment you (and they ) thought would work best was near the supplemental freeway plan that was far east of this study

I really believe the FAP 412 route is really one of the few proposed supplemental freeway routes that should have been built to full interstate standards for the entire length. I'd argue most of the supplemental freeways weren't necessary, but this one was. IDOT truly did Southern Illinois a disservice by not building it in full. 
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Re: I-39/U.S 51 (FAP 412) History
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2015, 04:56:45 PM »

The original route was Rockford to East Peoria and down what is now I-155 to Decatur.

Interestingly enough, I found a later proposal (early 1970's) that would have connected the I-155 freeway with the proposed I-180 to Peoria freeway and signed it as I-53. But politicians feared it would have served as a substitute for FAP 412/I-39 and it was scrapped.

I don't really understand why they pushed for an Interstate between Peoria and I-80 when FAP 412/I-39 already was being planned/implemented shortly east of the corridor. What purpose would two Interstates within 20 miles of one another serve?
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3467

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Re: I-39/U.S 51 (FAP 412) History
« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2015, 08:21:14 PM »

They were all on the supplemental and that was the route in the first plan by Wilbur Smith Associates in 66,
It was also the Kerner Curve. Gov Kerner tried to get money from the upgrade of 66 to 55 for the route through Peoria So that route had been proposed as 53 and 37 BTW 66 would have remained with at grades and stoplights instead of becoming 55 
Along IL 29 There are "to" 39 signs at each bridge
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3467

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Re: I-39/U.S 51 (FAP 412) History
« Reply #46 on: February 17, 2015, 09:37:06 PM »

I will kick the other 2 projects in the region in
US 50 Some have pushed for the whole thing but IDOTS looking at a Lebanon bypass 23 miles in the east I see no sense beyond this ex keeping all the ROW because Indian is not going to do anything
http://www.idot.illinois.gov/projects/US-50-Expressway-Study-Project

And IL 127 which we discussed in fictional highways became what is left of 1-24 extension
http://www.idot.illinois.gov/projects/IL-13-IL-127
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I-39

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Re: I-39/U.S 51 (FAP 412) History
« Reply #47 on: May 26, 2017, 10:47:52 PM »

Dusting off this thread.......

I found this EIS for construction on the FAP 412 (US 51) corridor from Maroa (just north of Decatur) to Bloomington.

https://books.google.com/books?id=VZc1AQAAMAAJ&pg=PR15&lpg=PR15&dq=FAP+412+Maroa+to+Bloomington&source=bl&ots=ZTVgnt4SSe&sig=3Iq3I7V4rmKns4IJxWfBDwHlbCo&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjojOvshI_UAhUG0YMKHTHeAqEQ6AEIKDAB#v=onepage&q&f=false

It is really interesting to see that, while they state in here that the original freeway (Interstate) proposal was scrapped due to lack of funding and high opposition to the taking of large amounts of farmland, they DID seriously consider making the Clinton bypass a controlled access freeway, as Rick Powell alluded to earlier in this thread. That would have been much better for the corridor.

I wonder if a freeway would have been more seriously considered if they had waited a decade until doing the Bloomington-Decatur segment of FAP 412, since Interstate standards changed to preserve more ROW. They should have waited to see what type of roadway the Oglesby to Normal segment was going to get first before jumping to conclusions on what was needed between Bloomington and Decatur.
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captkirk_4

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Re: I-39/U.S 51 (FAP 412) History
« Reply #48 on: May 27, 2017, 12:11:12 PM »

It's almost all four lane down to Pana now. If it reaches Vandalia and then down to I-57 around Alma and bring on a lot more thru-traffic they may have to finish those ghost ramps west of Forsyth to build a new highway around all those stoplights just north of I-72.
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Re: I-39/U.S 51 (FAP 412) History
« Reply #49 on: May 27, 2017, 04:28:34 PM »

It's almost all four lane down to Pana now. If it reaches Vandalia and then down to I-57 around Alma and bring on a lot more thru-traffic they may have to finish those ghost ramps west of Forsyth to build a new highway around all those stoplights just north of I-72.

I doubt they will ever finish the four lane south of Pana, there isn't consensus on what exactly to do. Likewise, I highly doubt anything will ever be done to fix the mistakes they made on the section of US 51 between Bloomington and Decatur. There will never be a lot of thru-traffic along US 51 between Bloomington and Southern Illinois because it is not built to Interstate standards. Most traffic coming up from the south would probably rather do I-57 to I-74 and cut over to Bloomington-Normal to pick up I-39.
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