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Author Topic: I-66 HO/T Lanes  (Read 55250 times)

1995hoo

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #50 on: June 17, 2015, 08:19:19 PM »

Here are the maps for the proposals for the Route 28 interchange. It's definitely on their radar—to say the least!

http://www.transform66.org/documents/meetings/2015may/38_2A_Route_28.pdf

http://www.transform66.org/documents/meetings/2015may/70_2B_Route_28.pdf

Somewhere, ethanman62187 would be excited if he saw those....
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"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #51 on: June 18, 2015, 04:31:44 PM »

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1995hoo

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #52 on: August 19, 2015, 03:33:48 PM »

Thread revived to note that VDOT has shown a new "Alternative 2D" for the Beltway/I-66 interchange. The most notable change that catches my eye is a revision to the connection from the Inner Loop HO/T lanes to the westbound I-66 general-purpose lanes. One of the other alternatives called for rebuilding the recently-demolished portion of the left-side exit ramp that has existed, in different configurations, since I-66 opened (I'm referring here to the portion built in the mid-1990s that consisted of a sort of "kink" where the ramp abruptly curved to the right so as to enter I-66 from the right side). This proposal ditches that idea in favor of using the existing HO/T exit, bearing right towards DC, then bearing right again onto a new ramp that would fly back over the Inner Loop to join the new proposed flyover that would run from the Inner Loop's right side to westbound I-66's right side. VDOT says this alternative would reduce the interchange's height and its impact on, in particular, Stenwood Elementary School's grounds.

.PDF diagram here: http://outside.transform66.org/learn_more/asset_upload_file185_79351.pdf

People are going to crap themselves when construction on that interchange starts up again since the Beltway HO/T lane construction still doesn't feel all that long ago!

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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

froggie

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #53 on: August 20, 2015, 11:09:05 AM »

I compared the two alternatives (2C and 2D) and it looks like it does cut the right-of-way needs on the school property (as well as several other properties abutting 66) by a good chunk.  Not zero-impact as the Dunn Loring neighborhood is wanting, but I'd guesstimate the ROW requirement from the school is about 60% less with 2D than with 2C.
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1995hoo

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #54 on: August 20, 2015, 12:01:05 PM »

Zero-impact is unreasonable, IMO, unless one feels "no-build" is reasonable.

I know it stinks if your property is the one affected, but I can't be entirely sympathetic because I think if you buy property next to a major road (doesn't have to be an Interstate or a junction, either), the risk of a widening project someday affecting your property, or even taking all your property, is part of what goes with the location.
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

1995hoo

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #55 on: September 17, 2015, 07:20:35 AM »

The Washington Post reported yesterday that VDOT has released its preferred alternative for I-66 outside the Beltway. The most notable element of this particular article is that the HO/T lanes wouldn't extend to Haymarket, at least not initially; instead, they'd end at the University Boulevard overpass, which is the relatively new one located between Gainesville and the Route 234 (bypass) interchange. The existing HOV ramps at Stringfellow Road and Monument Drive would mostly retain their current configurations with slight modifications, I assume to allow two-way usage at all times.

I haven't had the time to look elsewhere online to see which interchange designs they chose. Dr. Gridlock didn't provide a link to any such info and a mishap last night involving a glass of red wine and a white carpet meant my attention was focused elsewhere!
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Stephane Dumas

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #56 on: September 18, 2015, 08:30:58 PM »

A video of I-66 HOT alternative is on Youtube.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #57 on: September 19, 2015, 08:25:04 PM »

Dr. Gridlock in the Washington Post: What’s not to like about I-66 HOT lanes? Everyone can find something.

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After spending much of 2015 working on Virginia’s effort to rebuild Interstate 66 and add tolls, state Transportation Secretary Aubrey Layne had reached this conclusion: “Everyone may not like every aspect of what we’re planning.”

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There’s one statement about the multibillion-dollar, multiphase, multiyear, multi-modal, multijurisdiction program that will draw widespread agreement. After that, accord begins to break down.

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Although the overall plan has significant support, anything this complicated also has plenty of skeptics, doubters and flat-out naysayers.

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Here’s an incomplete list of what they can pick on: The taking of 11 private properties for the outside-the-Beltway portion of the high-occupancy toll lanes project, the lack of additional lanes for the inside-the-Beltway portion, the possibility that more lanes will be added later, the possibility that the state will finance the project, the possibility that the state will enlist a private partner to finance the project, the uncertainty over the carpool standard needed for a free ride, the exclusion of hybrids from the free-ride category and — oh, yeah — the tolls.
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1995hoo

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #58 on: October 19, 2015, 02:49:38 PM »

VDOT produced a 13-minute video outlining their preferred alternative for I-66 outside the Beltway. Dr. Gridlock posted it on his blog:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dr-gridlock/wp/2015/10/19/whats-virginia-trying-to-fix-on-i-66/
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #59 on: October 25, 2015, 03:24:45 PM »

[Op-Ed] column by Virginia’s Secretary of Transportation Aubrey Layne on WTOP.COM: The truth behind I-66 inside the Beltway

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Virginians deserve a healthy public discussion about how best to improve our transportation system. But that discussion must also be grounded in fact, not political rhetoric.  Unfortunately, the leadership of the House Republican Caucus is engaged in a campaign of misleading and flatly incorrect information on the McAuliffe administration’s proposal to improve I-66 inside the Beltway. So in the interest of good public policy, here are the facts.

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Fact 1: Despite unfounded claims to the contrary, dynamic tolling on I-66 will reduce congestion.

In 2013 the McDonnell Administration released a study on reducing traffic congestion in the I-66 corridor. It was the third such study in 15 years.

The study stated that dynamic tolling and multi-modal improvements could move 40,000 more people a day through the I-66 corridor, which is equivalent to 10 additional interstate lanes in the morning and another 10 in the evening.  The proposal would increase travel speeds from today’s low of 5 miles per hour to a more reliable pace of 45 miles per hour or faster.

The tangible congestion alleviation benefits this proposal will generate have led the Fairfax and Loudoun County Chambers of Commerce to express support for the proposed improvements.  We are working collaboratively with Fairfax, Arlington and Falls Church on the proposed project.  Just recently the Washington Metropolitan Council of Governments’ Transportation Planning Board approved adding this project to the region’s Constrained Long Range Plan.
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froggie

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #60 on: October 25, 2015, 05:32:14 PM »

He's not wrong.  There are actually NO losers initially in this.  With limited exceptions, SOV drivers can't use the road anyway right now during rush hour...this would allow them to as long as they pay the toll.

The only "losers" in the long run are those currently running HOV-2 who will either need to pay the toll or add a carpooler when they change the HOV requirements to 3 minimum.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #61 on: October 25, 2015, 09:05:17 PM »

The only "losers" in the long run are those currently running HOV-2 who will either need to pay the toll or add a carpooler when they change the HOV requirements to 3 minimum.

And perhaps the drivers of Toyota Priuses, Honda Civic hybrids and similar vehicles with grandfathered "CF" Virginia registration plates allowing them access to the HOV lanes regardless of how many people are in the vehicle. Their "free ride" in what are now HOV lanes presumably comes to an end with a transition to HOV/Toll lanes, as it did in what are now the 95Express lanes in the I-95 and southern I-395 corridor.

But - supposedly the Virginia DMV had (has?) regulations requiring purchasers of such cars to be warned by the dealer that the access to the HOV lanes could be cancelled at any time.  Not sure if the dealers complied with this, nor am I sure that any of the purchasers of cars listened.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2015, 09:08:21 PM by cpzilliacus »
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AlexandriaVA

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #62 on: October 25, 2015, 09:40:12 PM »

Like the 495 HOT lanes, people will complain about them and then use them. People don't know what they want nor what they need when it comes to infrastructure.

Also, is it safe to assume that there won't be any non-toll new highway construction (at least part of the new lanes being tolled) ever again? I would figure not.

Pretty soon Maryland and DC will look to improve and HOT 295 from the Beltway to the 11th Street Bridge, I bet.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #63 on: October 25, 2015, 09:48:48 PM »

Like the 495 HOT lanes, people will complain about them and then use them. People don't know what they want nor what they need when it comes to infrastructure.

Though in the case of I-66 inside the Beltway, they will not have a (congested) freeway choice as a "free" alternative.  The "free" routes most likely to be used by shunpikers probably the same as today - U.S. 50 (Arlington Boulevard), U.S. 29 (Lee Highway) and the George Washington Memorial Parkway.

Also, is it safe to assume that there won't be any non-toll new highway construction (at least part of the new lanes being tolled) ever again? I would figure not.

That may be a reasonable assertion, though I am not very good about predicting the future.  If someone had told me that Md. 200 (ICC) would be built and open to traffic in 2011 back in 2000 (when anti-all-highways Gov. Parris Nelson Glendening was still in office),  I would have been pretty dismissive of such talk.  But things happen, and the (toll-financed) road is there today.

Pretty soon Maryland and DC will look to improve and HOT 295 from the Beltway to the 11th Street Bridge, I bet.

The only interstate (note lower-case "i," as I include any highway improvement project between an adjoining jurisdiction and Maryland) HOV/Toll project I am aware of that has gotten on-the-record interest from anyone in Maryland is at the American Legion Bridge (yes, that's part of I-495).   That interest was expressed in the form of a joint letter to the secretaries at Maryland DOT and Virginia DOT and signed by the members of the Montgomery County Council and the Fairfax County Board of Supervisors. 

Note that the counties would presumably not be involved in funding or operating HOV/Toll lanes at the American Legion Bridge or anywhere else, so the ball is effectively in the court of the state DOTs and the governors.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2015, 09:54:26 PM by cpzilliacus »
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froggie

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #64 on: October 25, 2015, 09:57:58 PM »

DDOT has looked into toll lanes both on the SE/SW Freeway and on 295.  Not sure what the status of their inquiry is.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #65 on: October 25, 2015, 10:04:19 PM »

DDOT has looked into toll lanes both on the SE/SW Freeway and on 295.  Not sure what the status of their inquiry is.

IMO good potential corridors for both.  Also IMO, they need to widen D.C. 295 to be six lanes all the way from the 11th Street Bridge to the Maryland border, but that could be funded out of HOV/Toll lane revenues.

Have not heard anything about it lately. 

Since VDOT is apparently talking to Transurban about extending the 95 Express HOV/Toll lanes project north from Turkeycock Run to either the Pentagon or all the way to the Virginia shoreline of the Potomac River, it seems that DDOT would be very smart to cut a deal with Transurban to extend the HOV/Toll treatment into D.C. - at least for the (former) HOV bridges and their ramps on the D.C. side of the Potomac.
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froggie

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #66 on: October 26, 2015, 07:51:39 AM »

I'd rather VDOT keep it in house than give it to Transurban.  We've enough problems with their existing Transurban deals as it is...
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #67 on: October 26, 2015, 09:17:54 AM »

I'd rather VDOT keep it in house than give it to Transurban.  We've enough problems with their existing Transurban deals as it is...

I would not normally be in favor of having a private company run things, but because there is already a deal in place with Transurban and Transurban is already controlling some operational aspects of the I-395 HOV lanes, I would not have a problem with giving the rest of the corridor to them (albeit with contract terms better to the citizens of the Commonwealth and better controls on fees and charges) - and extension of the managed lanes along I-95 at least as far south as Va. 3).
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cpzilliacus

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #68 on: October 28, 2015, 01:01:17 AM »

Washington Post: I-66 HOT lanes plan clears another hurdle

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The Virginia Commonwealth Transportation Board voted unanimously Tuesday to advance the state’s plan to build HOT lanes on Interstate 66 outside the Capital Beltway, after spending much more time reviewing the other toll plan for the stretch inside the Beltway.

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In this election season for the Virginia General Assembly, it’s the inside plan that is generating the most political heat. The state’s plan is to toll the interior 10 miles without building extra lanes, the first time in the D.C. region that tolls would be added without also adding asphalt.

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There’s plenty of controversy about the outside the Beltway portion, too, but at the moment, it’s muted compared to the concerns expressed by local officials and commuters.

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Nonetheless, several people made the journey from Northern Virginia to the board’s meeting in Virginia Beach to testify about the Virginia Department of Transportation’s outside-the-Beltway plan.
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1995hoo

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #69 on: October 28, 2015, 07:44:55 AM »

Note the CTB signed onto the portion outside the Beltway. It's the inside-the-Beltway portion that's provoked the media stink and the TV attack ads over the past week or so.

(It seems to me the only people with a legitimate beef about the inside-the-Beltway proposal are the ones who commute in the opposite direction from the current HOV restrictions. If you can't currently use that road in the peak direction due to being an SOV, making the road HO/T gives you an option you do not now have. The fact that you would have to pay for it is irrelevant, because if you deem the toll unacceptable or too expensive, it means you continue to use the same route you do today. True, some HOV-2s are mad that they'd have to pay a toll in a few years when the "free" requirement changes from 2 to 3, but since the change to HOV-3 was to happen regardless of tolling, I don't see their gripe as valid either.)
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

AlexandriaVA

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #70 on: October 28, 2015, 08:31:43 AM »

Why is it that the concept of even charging a nominal toll on a previously-free highway is the subject of breathless commentary and the like, but public transportation fares often get raised despite public objections?

It just seems disingenous to act as if there is some God-given right to toll-free highways in perpetuity.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #71 on: October 28, 2015, 08:41:58 AM »

Why is it that the concept of even charging a nominal toll on a previously-free highway is the subject of breathless commentary and the like, but public transportation fares often get raised despite public objections?

It just seems disingenous to act as if there is some God-given right to toll-free highways in perpetuity.

Prices are going to go up.  You can't ride a bus for 25 cents in perpetuity either.  It's a rare day in hell when people don't mind their prices or fares raised.  The biggest difference is that all your stores don't have to ask for public comment before they raise the prices on their products.  Mass Transit agencies do.  Eliminate the public comment (and related newspaper articles), and you'll hear a lot fewer people complaining.

With roads, because of the historic system of funding them via fuel taxes, people do feel as if they have paid for them already.  It's much easier to build a new toll road from scratch than to convert a free road to a toll road. But even then you'll get the people that say they are paying for the road twice - once via the tolls, and twice via the fuel tax they paid.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 02:05:30 PM by jeffandnicole »
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AlexandriaVA

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #72 on: October 28, 2015, 08:47:15 AM »

I'm 26 and I feel like there's always been a gas-tax shortfall. Clearly the "free-highway" model concept may have worked in a previous era, but I'll believe it when I see it in the modern sense.

Besides, people complain too much. The people commuting from Loudoun and western Fairfax, where household incomes are well over 100K, will survive paying some tolls.
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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #73 on: October 28, 2015, 01:02:03 PM »

If the fuel tax kept pace with inflation and wasn't diverted to other things, we wouldn't have problems.  Of course, I wouldn't be surprised if the reasons behind the "political impossibility" for raising the fuel tax are part of a secret game to raise support for a mileage tax and shoving in a GPS to track every single car.
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1995hoo

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Re: I-66 HO/T Lanes
« Reply #74 on: October 28, 2015, 01:41:05 PM »

I think we'd still have problems as fuel efficiency increases. Put differently, a Prius can put the same wear and tear on the road as other compact cars, but its owner will pay a lot less in fuel taxes if he mostly uses it for city driving. Then you have alternative-fuel vehicles whose owners pay NO gas tax. That's a serious conundrum—on the one hand, it's good to reduce oil consumption, but doing so reduces road funds from the gas tax.

Virginia tried imposing an annual tax on alternative-fuel vehicles and hybrids a few years back. The people who owned those types of vehicles screamed bloody murder and it was repealed.

I find the idea of a mileage tax insidious because it'd be used to open the door to other things. It wouldn't stop at simply recording distance driven. It'd be expanded to track your whereabouts at any given time and to assess whether you're somewhere you "should" be. Doesn't matter what laws might be put in place. The government's secret little stooge court would be used to let them do whatever they want in secret.
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"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

 


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