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Author Topic: 1973 Kansas City - Chicago corridor study  (Read 8307 times)

Lyon Wonder

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1973 Kansas City - Chicago corridor study
« on: February 25, 2015, 08:44:57 PM »

This 1973 feasibility study has a map showing several alternatives for a corridor from Kansas City to Chicago.  Among the alternatives in IL are what is now I-172 from Hannibal to the IL-336 corridor from Quincy to Peoria and IL-29 and I-180 to I-80.

IMO, the most straight forward route shown in the corridor study is I-35 to US 36 in MO and I-72 and I-55 in IL. 

http://www.linecreekloudmouth.com/files/1973kansascitytochicagoexpresswayreport.pdf

This design study doesn't include most of what is now signed as the IL-110 "CKC" Expressway from US 67 north of Macomb to US 34 at Galesburg and I-74 to I-80 and I-88 to I-290 in Chicago.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2015, 08:54:38 PM by Lyon Wonder »
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Re: 1973 Kansas City - Chicago corridor study
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2015, 11:44:23 PM »

That was interesting.

I remember being a kid in Schaumburg and my dad would quite often make the drive to St Louis and KC as a few of his clients were there. Back then I-355 was no more than a concept on a drawing board (after I-290 curved to the east the part that is now I-355 went only down to US-20)  which meant a 30-45 minute slog down to I-55 down IL-53 on surface streets. After that it seemed to be a breeze getting down to St Louis (I never did the rest of the trip to KC with him).

Since he was usually making stops in St Louis first, the trip down wasn't the problem. He always would complain about the trip back, though, as there was never really a (quick) straight shot back to the Chicago area. and to him it always seemed like such a waste to have to go all the way back to St Louis before he could actually head towards home-he wasn't much of a "back road" type.
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Rick Powell

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Re: 1973 Kansas City - Chicago corridor study
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2015, 09:03:11 AM »

This 1973 feasibility study has a map showing several alternatives for a corridor from Kansas City to Chicago.  Among the alternatives in IL are what is now I-172 from Hannibal to the IL-336 corridor from Quincy to Peoria and IL-29 and I-180 to I-80.

IMO, the most straight forward route shown in the corridor study is I-35 to US 36 in MO and I-72 and I-55 in IL. 


Indeed, the Goog states that the "110" route thru Macomb is over an hour longer than 55-72-36-35 in their current configurations, if I am doing the routing correctly.
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Re: 1973 Kansas City - Chicago corridor study
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2015, 10:43:00 AM »

Methinks that I-180 would've been a more useful corridor if it were to be extended to Peoria, but we may never know now.
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3467

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Re: 1973 Kansas City - Chicago corridor study
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2015, 12:33:34 PM »

http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3301.100  My last post compares all the routes including some not in that study (as well as the ones in it)
I think its more like a half hour longer its 27 miles longer
Through Peoria saves only 9 miles
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I-39

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Re: 1973 Kansas City - Chicago corridor study
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2015, 05:54:51 PM »

Methinks that I-180 would've been a more useful corridor if it were to be extended to Peoria, but we may never know now.

You already have I-39 just east, you don't need another north-south Interstate within 20 miles of another.
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Re: 1973 Kansas City - Chicago corridor study
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2015, 06:13:07 PM »

http://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=3301.100  My last post compares all the routes including some not in that study (as well as the ones in it)
I think its more like a half hour longer its 27 miles longer
Through Peoria saves only 9 miles

It's interesting to see Missouri and Iowa's equivalent of the supplemental freeway system. It confirms that the original plan was to make U.S 20 a full freeway across Iowa. Same with U.S 36 across Missouri.

If indeed I-55 to I-72/U.S 36 to I-35 is fastest, then most definitely will U.S 36 across Missouri need to be upgraded to I-72 at some point.

Another thing about U.S 20. On this Illinois Supplemental Freeway map, they show the U.S 20 freeway splitting off two ways when it gets to Dubuque. Wonder what that was all about?
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NE2

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Re: 1973 Kansas City - Chicago corridor study
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2015, 06:26:03 PM »

Another thing about U.S 20. On this Illinois Supplemental Freeway map, they show the U.S 20 freeway splitting off two ways when it gets to Dubuque. Wonder what that was all about?
A direct route into Wisconsin, presumably.
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Brandon

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Re: 1973 Kansas City - Chicago corridor study
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2015, 06:28:31 PM »

Methinks that I-180 would've been a more useful corridor if it were to be extended to Peoria, but we may never know now.

You already have I-39 just east, you don't need another north-south Interstate within 20 miles of another.

Personally, looking at the (any further and it should be in the fictional area) map, I wonder if Illinois wouldn't have been better off having two separate freeways/expressways there flanking what is now I-39.  One should've been Lincoln-Peoria-Dixon-Rockford (west side), and the other should've been Pontiac-Ottawa-DeKalb-Belvidere, somewhat along IL-23.  Other than the Illinois Valley (LaSalle-Peru), I-39 avoids the urban clusters of northern Illinois (Dixon, Sterling-Rock Falls, Peoria, Pontiac, Streator, Ottawa, DeKalb-Sycamore, Belvidere).
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Re: 1973 Kansas City - Chicago corridor study
« Reply #9 on: February 28, 2015, 07:51:11 PM »

Methinks that I-180 would've been a more useful corridor if it were to be extended to Peoria, but we may never know now.

You already have I-39 just east, you don't need another north-south Interstate within 20 miles of another.

Personally, looking at the (any further and it should be in the fictional area) map, I wonder if Illinois wouldn't have been better off having two separate freeways/expressways there flanking what is now I-39.  One should've been Lincoln-Peoria-Dixon-Rockford (west side), and the other should've been Pontiac-Ottawa-DeKalb-Belvidere, somewhat along IL-23.  Other than the Illinois Valley (LaSalle-Peru), I-39 avoids the urban clusters of northern Illinois (Dixon, Sterling-Rock Falls, Peoria, Pontiac, Streator, Ottawa, DeKalb-Sycamore, Belvidere).

No, I-39 functions as a bypass, it's fine the way it is. If anything, Illinois would have been better off building I-39/FAP 412 all the way to I-57 to serve as a bypass of the whole state and to give Decatur better North-South Interstate access. IMO, I-39/FAP 412 is one of the few supplemental freeway corridors that should have been built to full interstate standards for the entire length.

They did look at combining the I-180/IL-29 and I-155 corridors and making it I-53, but there were serious environmental concerns about building an Interstate along the I-180/IL-29 corridor, so it was scrapped. Upgrading U.S 51 was a much better idea.
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3467

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Re: 1973 Kansas City - Chicago corridor study
« Reply #10 on: February 28, 2015, 08:50:43 PM »

The First Wilbur Smith sketch was very close to what Brandon was thinking and those routings were considered in the 51(39) EIS -The North Part -the south part was focused on freeway or expressway as the north part was built ......
IDOT was trying to keep a Chicago KC routing going and Jim Thompson was at WIU trying to figure out how to stretch the funding and He cam to a deal on the current 110 routing with Quincy ( probably Tom Oakley) and Macomb that badly wanted a 4 lane 67 . Support was always cool in Peoria Also at that same time ( 1985 a key year ) study began on the Alton bypass. It was only later with Problems with the Beardstown bridge that Corridor 67 organized and the Jacksonville bypass was added
NE is also correct there was spur planned briefly to Wisconsin. It didn't last long as a plan
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NE2

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Re: 1973 Kansas City - Chicago corridor study
« Reply #11 on: February 28, 2015, 09:04:58 PM »

Those FAP numbers made me wonder whether one of the three states originally on US 412 (AR-MO-TN) might have used a similar system for planned corridors, explaining the 412 number. But I couldn't find anything.
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Brandon

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Re: 1973 Kansas City - Chicago corridor study
« Reply #12 on: February 28, 2015, 09:18:41 PM »

Those FAP numbers made me wonder whether one of the three states originally on US 412 (AR-MO-TN) might have used a similar system for planned corridors, explaining the 412 number. But I couldn't find anything.

They're internal IDOT numbers.  IDOT has FAI (interstate), FAP (primary), FAS (secondary), as well as the original SBI routes.  The 400 series doesn't conflict with any of the current numbered routes.
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Re: 1973 Kansas City - Chicago corridor study
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2015, 09:24:57 PM »

The First Wilbur Smith sketch was very close to what Brandon was thinking and those routings were considered in the 51(39) EIS -The North Part -the south part was focused on freeway or expressway as the north part was built ......
IDOT was trying to keep a Chicago KC routing going and Jim Thompson was at WIU trying to figure out how to stretch the funding and He cam to a deal on the current 110 routing with Quincy ( probably Tom Oakley) and Macomb that badly wanted a 4 lane 67 . Support was always cool in Peoria Also at that same time ( 1985 a key year ) study began on the Alton bypass. It was only later with Problems with the Beardstown bridge that Corridor 67 organized and the Jacksonville bypass was added
NE is also correct there was spur planned briefly to Wisconsin. It didn't last long as a plan

Why does 67 curve towards Chapin instead of heading straight north at the 104 interchange in Jacksonville towards Beardstown?
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NE2

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Re: 1973 Kansas City - Chicago corridor study
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2015, 09:32:42 PM »

Those FAP numbers made me wonder whether one of the three states originally on US 412 (AR-MO-TN) might have used a similar system for planned corridors, explaining the 412 number. But I couldn't find anything.

They're internal IDOT numbers.  IDOT has FAI (interstate), FAP (primary), FAS (secondary), as well as the original SBI routes.  The 400 series doesn't conflict with any of the current numbered routes.
They're numbers formerly used by the FHWA/BPR as well. Hence federal aid. I was wondering if one of the US 412 states had a similar system, but apparently not.
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3467

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Re: 1973 Kansas City - Chicago corridor study
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2015, 09:49:04 PM »

I can help with 2 Questions Those were just some numbers IDOT picked for new corridors They were first just numbered 1-13 Then 4 was added now they have other numbers I can Check on one of the EISs for the most recent if anyone cares.

^& was routed along IL 125 to IL 78 south to Jacksonville . The Bethel curve was added maybe in the 50s early 60s I suspect terrain was the issue . The EIS process looked at the more direct route near the Arenzville road. It would have saved 4 miles but would have cost more because of RR overpasses and destroyed the almost extinct Hill Prairie ecosystem . I can recall  telling the consultant to follow the existing route. he said good decision. The hill prairie is safe and the road is built or being built ...sadly Bethel is still there
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Revive 755

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Re: 1973 Kansas City - Chicago corridor study
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2015, 10:50:54 PM »

Personally, looking at the (any further and it should be in the fictional area) map, I wonder if Illinois wouldn't have been better off having two separate freeways/expressways there flanking what is now I-39.  One should've been Lincoln-Peoria-Dixon-Rockford (west side), and the other should've been Pontiac-Ottawa-DeKalb-Belvidere, somewhat along IL-23.  Other than the Illinois Valley (LaSalle-Peru), I-39 avoids the urban clusters of northern Illinois (Dixon, Sterling-Rock Falls, Peoria, Pontiac, Streator, Ottawa, DeKalb-Sycamore, Belvidere).

No, I-39 functions as a bypass, it's fine the way it is.

I fail to see how shifting I-39 around 15 to 20 miles eastward north of US 24 would prevent it from functioning as a Chicago bypass.  Streator, Ottawa, and DeKalb-Sycamore are not big enough to become bottlenecks on an interstate; they would have just been multi-exit towns similar to Mattoon on I-57 or Jacksonville on I-72.

Quote from: adamlanfort
They did look at combining the I-180/IL-29 and I-155 corridors and making it I-53, but there were serious environmental concerns about building an Interstate along the I-180/IL-29 corridor, so it was scrapped. Upgrading U.S 51 was a much better idea.

Except, IIRC, the earlier versions of the IL 29 Peoria to I-180 corridor were above the bluffs and not in the sensitive areas between the bluffs and the river.
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Brandon

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Re: 1973 Kansas City - Chicago corridor study
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2015, 11:07:32 PM »

Personally, looking at the (any further and it should be in the fictional area) map, I wonder if Illinois wouldn't have been better off having two separate freeways/expressways there flanking what is now I-39.  One should've been Lincoln-Peoria-Dixon-Rockford (west side), and the other should've been Pontiac-Ottawa-DeKalb-Belvidere, somewhat along IL-23.  Other than the Illinois Valley (LaSalle-Peru), I-39 avoids the urban clusters of northern Illinois (Dixon, Sterling-Rock Falls, Peoria, Pontiac, Streator, Ottawa, DeKalb-Sycamore, Belvidere).

No, I-39 functions as a bypass, it's fine the way it is.

I fail to see how shifting I-39 around 15 to 20 miles eastward north of US 24 would prevent it from functioning as a Chicago bypass.  Streator, Ottawa, and DeKalb-Sycamore are not big enough to become bottlenecks on an interstate; they would have just been multi-exit towns similar to Mattoon on I-57 or Jacksonville on I-72.

If anything, having I-39 20 miles east would've been far more beneficial to these cities, especially Streator.  Streator is one of the largest cities in Illinois with no freeway access, not even via a four-lane highway.  It also would've served the Normal-Belvidere connection for the two auto plants just as well as the current I-39.

Quote
Quote from: adamlanfort
They did look at combining the I-180/IL-29 and I-155 corridors and making it I-53, but there were serious environmental concerns about building an Interstate along the I-180/IL-29 corridor, so it was scrapped. Upgrading U.S 51 was a much better idea.

Except, IIRC, the earlier versions of the IL 29 Peoria to I-180 corridor were above the bluffs and not in the sensitive areas between the bluffs and the river.

And it would've made yet another connection for Peoria to the north.  A Rockford-Peoria freeway/expressway could've been beneficial to both cities.  Oh well, it was not to be.
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3467

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Re: 1973 Kansas City - Chicago corridor study
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2015, 11:16:29 PM »

IDOT did a short lived study to make 23 4 lanes between Streator and Ottawa but that was replaced with a widen and resurface with some turn lanes.
Kewanee is in a similar situation surrounded by interstates but not on one. The Galesburg paper ran a story some time ago claiming that a 74 routing was planned near it. As far as I can tell that was some sort of local dream( I heard a similar that 67 was considered too) All the evidence I have see always put 74 along US 150.
Anyway I would like to make IDOT live up to its 3 lane promise for 67 and I think it would help Kewanee on 34 . Because 4 lanes and interstates aint happening along any of these routes
BTW 67 is now FAP 310
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Re: 1973 Kansas City - Chicago corridor study
« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2015, 11:33:29 PM »

Personally, looking at the (any further and it should be in the fictional area) map, I wonder if Illinois wouldn't have been better off having two separate freeways/expressways there flanking what is now I-39.  One should've been Lincoln-Peoria-Dixon-Rockford (west side), and the other should've been Pontiac-Ottawa-DeKalb-Belvidere, somewhat along IL-23.  Other than the Illinois Valley (LaSalle-Peru), I-39 avoids the urban clusters of northern Illinois (Dixon, Sterling-Rock Falls, Peoria, Pontiac, Streator, Ottawa, DeKalb-Sycamore, Belvidere).

No, I-39 functions as a bypass, it's fine the way it is.

I fail to see how shifting I-39 around 15 to 20 miles eastward north of US 24 would prevent it from functioning as a Chicago bypass.  Streator, Ottawa, and DeKalb-Sycamore are not big enough to become bottlenecks on an interstate; they would have just been multi-exit towns similar to Mattoon on I-57 or Jacksonville on I-72.

If anything, having I-39 20 miles east would've been far more beneficial to these cities, especially Streator.  Streator is one of the largest cities in Illinois with no freeway access, not even via a four-lane highway.  It also would've served the Normal-Belvidere connection for the two auto plants just as well as the current I-39.

Quote
Quote from: adamlanfort
They did look at combining the I-180/IL-29 and I-155 corridors and making it I-53, but there were serious environmental concerns about building an Interstate along the I-180/IL-29 corridor, so it was scrapped. Upgrading U.S 51 was a much better idea.

Except, IIRC, the earlier versions of the IL 29 Peoria to I-180 corridor were above the bluffs and not in the sensitive areas between the bluffs and the river.

And it would've made yet another connection for Peoria to the north.  A Rockford-Peoria freeway/expressway could've been beneficial to both cities.  Oh well, it was not to be.

When I said bypass, I meant not just for Chicago, but for all the north central IL cities mentioned.

I disagree about the Belvidere to Pontiac freeway, it would be pointless. Where would it come out on both ends? Might as well shift it further east and make it the Praire Parkway.

I could see the Rockford to Lincoln freeway along U.S 51 (north of I-80), I-180/IL-29 and I-155, but if you are going to do that, you would need to build a leg to Decatur (which really suffered when I-39 was not extended to it). What really should have been done is I-57 should have been built straight north towards Decatur and ran along the I-72 alignment to Champaign-Urbana to its current alignment. Then build the Rockford-Peoria-Decatur variant of I-39 and you're set.
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Revive 755

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Re: 1973 Kansas City - Chicago corridor study
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2015, 01:37:33 AM »

When I said bypass, I meant not just for Chicago, but for all the north central IL cities mentioned.

Yet I-39's as-built route leads it right into Bloomington - Normal, instead of coming at a location that could be extended southward to I-74 and later to I-72.

Quote from: adamlanfort
I disagree about the Belvidere to Pontiac freeway, it would be pointless.

It would serve a greater population than as-built I-39 does, provide better access to Northern Illinois University, but still travel through an area with light enough development to function as a bypass.

Quote from: adamlanfort
Where would it come out on both ends?

I don't see anything making it that hard to tie into I-55 east/north of Bloomington-Normal.  North end could have easily been at I-90 in the 17 mile gap in exits between the Belevidere and Hampshire interchanges.

Quote from: adamlanfort
Might as well shift it further east and make it the Praire Parkway.

Would be too close to Chicagoland to work well as a bypass; it would start getting traffic from the developing areas of Yorkville and Sugar Grove.  Any growth around DeKalb-Sycamore, Ottawa, and/or Streator would be smaller and less likely to degrade the reliability of the route as a bypass.

Quote from: adamlanfort
I could see the Rockford to Lincoln freeway along U.S 51 (north of I-80), I-180/IL-29 and I-155, but if you are going to do that, you would need to build a leg to Decatur (which really suffered when I-39 was not extended to it). What really should have been done is I-57 should have been built straight north towards Decatur and ran along the I-72 alignment to Champaign-Urbana to its current alignment. Then build the Rockford-Peoria-Decatur variant of I-39 and you're set.

So what makes Decatur so worthy of having a north-south freeway?  I'm sure Danville could do better had it gotten a north-south freeway.  A Pontiac to Belvidere freeway would have served almost as many people as there are in Decatur.
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Re: 1973 Kansas City - Chicago corridor study
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2015, 02:42:42 PM »

When I said bypass, I meant not just for Chicago, but for all the north central IL cities mentioned.

Yet I-39's as-built route leads it right into Bloomington - Normal, instead of coming at a location that could be extended southward to I-74 and later to I-72.

Quote from: adamlanfort
I disagree about the Belvidere to Pontiac freeway, it would be pointless.

It would serve a greater population than as-built I-39 does, provide better access to Northern Illinois University, but still travel through an area with light enough development to function as a bypass.

Quote from: adamlanfort
Where would it come out on both ends?

I don't see anything making it that hard to tie into I-55 east/north of Bloomington-Normal.  North end could have easily been at I-90 in the 17 mile gap in exits between the Belevidere and Hampshire interchanges.

Quote from: adamlanfort
Might as well shift it further east and make it the Praire Parkway.

Would be too close to Chicagoland to work well as a bypass; it would start getting traffic from the developing areas of Yorkville and Sugar Grove.  Any growth around DeKalb-Sycamore, Ottawa, and/or Streator would be smaller and less likely to degrade the reliability of the route as a bypass.

Quote from: adamlanfort
I could see the Rockford to Lincoln freeway along U.S 51 (north of I-80), I-180/IL-29 and I-155, but if you are going to do that, you would need to build a leg to Decatur (which really suffered when I-39 was not extended to it). What really should have been done is I-57 should have been built straight north towards Decatur and ran along the I-72 alignment to Champaign-Urbana to its current alignment. Then build the Rockford-Peoria-Decatur variant of I-39 and you're set.

So what makes Decatur so worthy of having a north-south freeway?  I'm sure Danville could do better had it gotten a north-south freeway.  A Pontiac to Belvidere freeway would have served almost as many people as there are in Decatur.

1. There is no way the environmentalists, farmers and other interest groups would have approved of two north-south freeways that essentially are serving the same purpose (both would be used by people getting to Wisconsin). 

2. I-39 is already fairly close to DeKalb. It's not right next to the city, but it's only 17 miles away. Same thing with Streator/Ottawa. It does not take long to get to any of those cities. Not sure how bringing it closer to DeKalb would have helped much more. If you build it along IL-23 from Pontiac to Marengo, you're getting fairly close to the proposed Prairie Parkway.

3. I-39 could easily be extended to Decatur and further south by simply routing I-39 along the I-55/74 bypass and then building a new alignment south to Decatur and beyond.

4. Not sure how building the western I-39 would reap any additional benefits then what is already there now, would it simply be because it would tie in directly to Peoria?
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Re: 1973 Kansas City - Chicago corridor study
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2015, 08:24:00 PM »

IDOT did a short lived study to make 23 4 lanes between Streator and Ottawa but that was replaced with a widen and resurface with some turn lanes.

Yes, I remember it well.  Actually, back in the early 70's IL-23 was widened to 4 lanes from the north end of the 2-way couple in Streator north to Richards Road, where it goes back to 2 lanes.  I drove thru the construction every morning when I worked on the AT&SF Ry. in Streator.  When I later went to work at IDOT, I overheard that there was some ADT breakpoint (around 5,000 ADT) that would have made the Richards Road to Ottawa segment buildable at that time, but they couldn't get there.  I remember the bumper stickers at the time "Pray for me - I drive on Route 23".  It had narrow shoulders and was the scene of a few nasty head on wrecks before the Richards Road segment was 4-laned.  They did put in some decent wide fully-paved shoulders along the entire length from Ottawa to Streator in the 70's project...today the shoulders are just as wide but are half paved with the outside half in stone, as an economizing move in line with IDOT's current paved shoulder standards.

Later, in the late 90's there was an environmental study started to again look at 4 laning the missing segment, but there was fierce opposition from the farmers and residents of Grand Ridge, the support that should have come from Streator didn't materialize, and the political support for the project vanished into thin air and IDOT built what remains today, with turning lanes at the major intersections while keeping the road at 2 lanes.  The City of Ottawa still has a conceptual plan to build an eastern bypass across the river that would connect about 1 mile south of town and terminate on IL 71 near I-80 which would improve the access time of Streator to Chicago considerably (probably save 10 minutes off the trip which encounters numerous stoplights thru Ottawa).
« Last Edit: March 01, 2015, 08:29:12 PM by Rick Powell »
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Re: 1973 Kansas City - Chicago corridor study
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2015, 08:44:59 PM »

After FHWA poured cold water over 67 north of Monmouth IDOT came up with a plan to make it 3 lanes long before other states had the idea ...Then it was dropped. When I asked planning once in Springfield I was answered with a question"Well its still better than it ever has been?"
Finally the reconstruct is in the 5 YP for Warren county . I did asked for the full paved shoulders but got the response "if we did that everyone would want one"
I should have responded with well them I will set up a PAC and push for 4 lanes!
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Re: 1973 Kansas City - Chicago corridor study
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2015, 11:18:48 PM »

After FHWA poured cold water over 67 north of Monmouth IDOT came up with a plan to make it 3 lanes long before other states had the idea ...Then it was dropped. When I asked planning once in Springfield I was answered with a question"Well its still better than it ever has been?"
Finally the reconstruct is in the 5 YP for Warren county . I did asked for the full paved shoulders but got the response "if we did that everyone would want one"
I should have responded with well them I will set up a PAC and push for 4 lanes!

What happened to 4-laning 67 north of Monmouth?
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